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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2012, 4:38 PM
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Angry "You're only a veteran if you served in combat!"

"You're only a veteran if you've actually seen combat, killed somebody, or actually lost a limb in service of your country".


I wanted to go over and clock him (and have a piece of his *** while I'm at it), but then I decided it wasn't worth going to jail over.

Ignorance and stupidity must be bliss, ain't it?


Then again, I know for a fact that you become a veteran the moment you graduate from Boot Camp/BCT (depending on branch). It doesn't matter if you've actually fired your weapon at somebody, or if you've been shot at yourself or if you've even lost a limb or two in combat.

The moment you graduate from training, the "Veteran" title stays with you forever, regardless if you ever see combat or not!!!

Last edited by RMP91; 03-02-2012 at 10:41 AM..
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2012, 4:45 PM
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Thanks to all of the veterans who have served whether they saw combat, killed someone, or lost body parts people can make idiotic statements like that.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2012, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Arondos View Post
Thanks to all of the veterans who have served whether they saw combat, killed someone, or lost body parts people can make idiotic statements like that.
I just wished it allowed me to clock 'em for making such statements since they're so ****ing stupid

But I suppose you're right in saying they have the right to do that...
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Old 02-26-2012, 4:49 PM
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They must be confusing "military veteran" with "war veteran"

Of course currently we are so active in the area of war, that every military veteran serving is either active in the war, supporting the war, or defending the bad door areas that still need to be guarded during war. So in my mind, they are all veterans and I do not draw any distinctions one way or the other. Currently if you are in the military, you are a war veteran.

Bottom line, they can be shot at as a result of their position and uniform, and can be ordered to combat zones if they are not currently in them.

It takes more than fighters to make the machine work.

There is a certain honor and mystery that deservedly goes along with being a combat veteran, but it is not designed or intended to take away from the sacrifices and efforts that all those who volunteered share. They have the honor of serving their Country, and putting Country first as well.

The decision of an enemy to fire upon them will not be the deciding factor of who we say have honor.
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Old 02-26-2012, 5:33 PM
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I wanted to go over and clock him (and have a piece of his *** while I'm at it), but then I decided it wasn't worth going to jail over.


I would have bailed you out, brother...
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Old 02-26-2012, 5:36 PM
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Thank you to ALL that have served in out military.
That guy should be clocked for then once for saying such a stupid and ignorant thing.
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Old 02-26-2012, 5:38 PM
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I wanted to go over and clock him (and have a piece of his *** while I'm at it), but then I decided it wasn't worth going to jail over.


I would have bailed you out, brother...
That's very kind of you, but it's not worth losing gun rights for life over punching somebody in the face for an extremely disrespectful (and stupid of course) comment. Plus, my father (who is a SGT with the Sheriff's Office) would more than likely disown me if he ever caught me on the other side of the iron bars.

Then again, I'm not a veteran myself (yet, hoping to enlist by the end of this year). But that hurt as much as if I were one.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:03 PM
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Reminds me of a scene in Band of Brothers where a guy picks on the reinforcements who joined after the Normandy drop. Another guy then tells him to shut it because he was injured or something and missed the jump himself.

The guy who said that probably didn't do much himself and is just boastful.
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Old 02-29-2012, 1:03 PM
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That sounds like the same kind of person who says that our wars are the soldier's fault. I actually met this person when I was still in service. I was able to point out their stupidity and enlighten them some, and felt better.
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Old 02-29-2012, 1:06 PM
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dude every day that goes by i WISH i could have went with my unit to iraq. The army just didnt send me bro simple as that. my buddy Beadles died over there. i get tears in my eyes thinking about him right now. he will be missed. i dont know what i could have done but i still wish i would have went.
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Old 02-29-2012, 1:07 PM
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That sounds like the same kind of person who says that our wars are the soldier's fault. I actually met this person when I was still in service. I was able to point out their stupidity and enlighten them some, and felt better.
Did you point out their stupidity with a kick in the head and enlighten them with a punch to the groin?
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Old 02-29-2012, 1:07 PM
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i think the guys like me who didnt go all wish we could have
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Old 03-01-2012, 3:15 PM
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The person who was talking ****, was he even in the military himself or just a special forces poser?
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Old 03-01-2012, 5:02 PM
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The person who was talking ****, was he even in the military himself or just a special forces poser?
He was an obese 30-something that was barely 5'5. I personally thought he had no right to talk **** about those who die for our country.


Sometimes I wish the 1st Amendment came with a Common Sense clause.
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Old 03-01-2012, 7:29 PM
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He was an obese 30-something that was barely 5'5. I personally thought he had no right to talk **** about those who die for our country.


Sometimes I wish the 1st Amendment came with a Common Sense clause.
If you asked him, I bet he would say he was in some sort of special forces lol. That's what all the 5'5" obese guys say, I come across them from time to time at gun shops. I just walk away.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2012, 8:27 PM
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Given that anyone in a uniform--even in CONUS--can be a target at any time in these kinds of wars, that kind of remark is just plain infuriating.

And who is to say that somebody who just plain SERVED, working hard at a job that he or she had to do whether in a combat arm or theater or not, isn't worth honoring? Do we exempt some workers from honor on Labor Day, or any citizen from participating in the 4th of July, or say anybody doesn't deserve to give thanks on Thanksgiving?

ANYBODY that's ever suffered the good old military "hurry up and wait," or stood a fire watch alone in some place nobody wants to be, deserves honor.

I guess the "Job One" of haters is to hate and the hobby of sneerers is to sneer.....
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Old 03-01-2012, 9:55 PM
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Default Civilians versus Citizens

The older I get, the more I like the idea of dividing our country into two groups, civilians and citizens.

To become a citizen, you have to serve honorably in the military and for your service you get the right to vote, run for public office and/or recieve government granted benefits.

If one chooses to stay a civilian, you get no right to vote, you can't serve in public office and in my view, shouldn't get any government benefits that you did not contribute for.

Citizens have rights because they have earned them by putting their lives on the line to protect the country.

Civilians have limited privileges since they risked nothing.

I don't talk much about my military service since I lucked out and served in a time when we weren't involved in any wars.

The men and women who are serving today IMHO are as good as any previous generation.

If it wasn't for people serving our country in the past, we wouldn't have a country.

While I strongly support freedom of speech, with freedom comes responsibility. It is too bad many people are irresponsible.

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Old 03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
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And now I finally know the difference.

Thanks.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:55 PM
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Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.
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Old 03-02-2012, 8:11 AM
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Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2012, 8:29 AM
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Fool needed a good thrashing
Except I ended up not doing anything more than walking away in a worse mood than I already was (long day at school, witnessed a couple fights within minutes of each other). I wish I could have done more than that, but I swore to my father that I'd never be caught on the other side of the bars, no matter how justified I was.

Plus, the fat bastard wasn't worth the air he breathed talking that trash (nor my time)
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2012, 8:46 AM
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Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.
Haha ain't that the truth
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Old 03-02-2012, 8:54 AM
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If you think that's bad, check out what a classmate of mine said in my English class at a northern California university a few semesters ago (I wasn't in the classroom for this, but my girlfriend was).

This scumbag said something along the lines of, "If you're in the military, you deserve to go to Iraq and die. You signed up so you could murder and rape women and children all day, so you deserve it if you die."

I'll tell you right now, I would have broke that little scumbags jaw if I were there. At the time, my brother was stationed in Iraq, but even if he wasn't, I would have been just as pissed off.

I swear I think college students are some of the most ignorant, unintelligent people on earth.
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Old 03-02-2012, 8:59 AM
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How about the soldiers at Fort Hood who were killed right here in the US for no other reason than they wore the Uniform. How about the active duty eating breakfast in Carson City Nevada and were shot for no reason other than they were wearing the Uniform.

I served 18 months in combat on the ground and I can tell you I have the same love for my brothers and sisters that serve regardless of where they serve.
Each of them wrote a check that included their life for their country.

Now the person who needs a beating is the one that poses to have been in the military and wasn't. Those are the ones that deserve to be stomped into a blotch on the pavement.

Today we have fought two wars over ten years in duration with an all voluntary force. That would not have happened in my time in the 60's. Every major war including the civil war required the draft to fight the war.

When somebody talks of the young entitled class of young people today remind them of this fact an all volunteer force. Pretty amazing and wonderful in my book.

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Old 03-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by nyj09 View Post
If you think that's bad, check out what a classmate of mine said in my English class at a northern California university a few semesters ago (I wasn't in the classroom for this, but my girlfriend was).

This scumbag said something along the lines of, "If you're in the military, you deserve to go to Iraq and die. You signed up so you could murder and rape women and children all day, so you deserve it if you die."

I'll tell you right now, I would have broke that little scumbags jaw if I were there. At the time, my brother was stationed in Iraq, but even if he wasn't, I would have been just as pissed off.

I swear I think college students are some of the most ignorant, unintelligent people on earth.

If there was ANYBODY on this Earth that I would wish a slow, painful death upon. It would be the ***hole you described (That, and the freaks at Westboro).

I, myself am a college student, yet have no such views, but I agree that a LOT of what comes out of the mouths of college students is pure unadulterated bull****. Even I've had a couple moments I've said things that I regretted saying not 10 minutes later, at least I had the balls to actually go and apologize!
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2012, 10:48 AM
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Oddly enough for me Afghanistan was a cake walk compared to my tour in Bosnia, and Bosnia never warranted an SSI or anything in the news more than a 20 second blurb. It's very odd what some people put value on.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:00 AM
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Years ago when I was a kid, last century mind you, veterans were those considered to have been stationed in combat zones, in harm's way, etc... however the term and such applied to pretty much anyone who had served (even if it was all state-side and pentagon), but the respect for veterans from folks really was more for those that were in harm's way.

Makes sense to me, but when you see a former service member you don't know what their service was like, seems to me you should have some respect for their service at least.

But people will fight over semantics anyway like they always do.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:17 AM
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Hate people like that who don't get it.

And thanks for all my Veteran brothers and sisters!
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:27 AM
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Then again, I know for a fact that you become a veteran the moment you graduate from Boot Camp/BCT (depending on branch).

well, actually, the VA only considers you eligible for the "title" and therefore benefits once you served at least 180 days. There may be exceptions, such as if you are medically retired before then, etc.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:26 PM
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Ignorance is ignorance.

Combat veterans deserve respect for taking and returning fire to the enemy, but everyone in uniform sacrifices to make the mission possible. An Air Force NCO in the logistics squadron spends the same 6 months in the same desert as the Para-rescue guys, and the enemy doesn't care which one they kill. Go tell the families of the finance squadrons and the headquarters staff if their fathers, daughters, sons, and friends aren't worth the earned title of being a veteran. Go tell that "combat only" nonsense to the Air Force Security Policeman humping an M4 stateside at a CONUS base in -50 temps for 12 hours a day.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
The older I get, the more I like the idea of dividing our country into two groups, civilians and citizens.

To become a citizen, you have to serve honorably in the military and for your service you get the right to vote, run for public office and/or recieve government granted benefits.

If one chooses to stay a civilian, you get no right to vote, you can't serve in public office and in my view, shouldn't get any government benefits that you did not contribute for.

Citizens have rights because they have earned them by putting their lives on the line to protect the country.

Civilians have limited privileges since they risked nothing.

I don't talk much about my military service since I lucked out and served in a time when we weren't involved in any wars.

The men and women who are serving today IMHO are as good as any previous generation.

If it wasn't for people serving our country in the past, we wouldn't have a country.

While I strongly support freedom of speech, with freedom comes responsibility. It is too bad many people are irresponsible.

Nicki
And if it wasn't for civilians, we wouldn't have a country either.

I can certainly agree with your basic viewpoint that everyone should contribute. I have the utmost respect for those who decide to do a job very few would do. However, to say that those who don't serve are not entitled to voting or any sort of benefits is unfair. Like everyone else here, I pay my taxes. Those taxes pay for the military. If you were forced to give some unseen entity a portion of your paycheck, it's only fair that you, as the earner, gets to vote on who and how your extort...taxes are used. It's also a form of class discrimination. Judging certain people to be more valuable to society is a very dangerous path to go down. A man or woman who has never committed any crimes, goes to work every day, pays taxes, supports kids, and does right by their families is just as much a hero as a soldier in these times. Just my opinion.

Last edited by ruchik; 03-02-2012 at 12:38 PM..
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:47 PM
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Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.
This sums it up pretty well. I've been carrying my sig line with my personal thoughts long before this thread. I can run the family name back to
the Civil War, a Grandad who was at Meuse-Argonne in WW1,his 5 sons including my Dad in the USMC thru WW2,Korea, and one in Vietnam.
On a side note--and this is NOT to detract from ANYONE who recived a Purple Heart(except John Kerry who has a couple), my Dad was shot
off a pole while stringing some type wire (was not hit) but broke his back during the fall and I never heard of him getting a PH. I thought
it was humorous back during the Bosnia situation when 3 GIs got captured and Bill Clinton was pinning PHs on them and I don't think they were
even wounded. Pete
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:50 PM
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Oddly enough for me Afghanistan was a cake walk compared to my tour in Bosnia, and Bosnia never warranted an SSI or anything in the news more than a 20 second blurb. It's very odd what some people put value on.
Bosnia doesn't have oil...

Honestly, I don't consider myself a vet. I served for almost 10 years in various parts of the world and yet I don't think I did enough to be called a vet.

Last edited by benjaminh98; 03-02-2012 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:56 PM
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Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:59 PM
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Had someone tell me that once too and then asked if that was the case why am I considered a "non combat veteran" since I never saw combat. He just blinked and stuttered.
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Old 03-02-2012, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ruchik View Post
And if it wasn't for civilians, we wouldn't have a country either.

I can certainly agree with your basic viewpoint that everyone should contribute. I have the utmost respect for those who decide to do a job very few would do. However, to say that those who don't serve are not entitled to voting or any sort of benefits is unfair. Like everyone else here, I pay my taxes. Those taxes pay for the military. If you were forced to give some unseen entity a portion of your paycheck, it's only fair that you, as the earner, gets to vote on who and how your extort...taxes are used. It's also a form of class discrimination. Judging certain people to be more valuable to society is a very dangerous path to go down. A man or woman who has never committed any crimes, goes to work every day, pays taxes, supports kids, and does right by their families is just as much a hero as a soldier in these times. Just my opinion.
I couldn't agree more. As a veteran now working the private sector making it out here on my own without the safety net some would argue is there in the military, is never easy. I fight on a daily basis to be a good provider for my family and contribute to society. It is tremendously brutal out here in the civilian world too, time is money and if you do not add value to your organization, you're done. It's as simple as that. Those who are men (or women) enough to step up and be productive are EQUALLY as much heroes as anyone who puts on a uniform. If we don't accept this, we are just as low as 5'5 fat bodies... (Not that I'm the thinnest in the world these days, but hey, I can do that now. )
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Old 03-02-2012, 1:23 PM
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Way back I used to think my job as a REMF Electronics Tech wasn't very "Glorious"... No storming the beaches etc. Then on my second cruise in Gulf War I, I was invited to the ready room of our Attack Squadron by the CO, along with all the rest of the TRON's in my shop.

They showed us a video of the Alpha Strike into the heart of Baghdad. The CO was narrating the video from the nose FLIR. Alll you could see was green silohete on green of the terrain. Then the whole screen was lit up with AAA and SAM's as they planes got close. Then the CO said... "And here is where we turned on YOUR jammers" and the AAA stopped or scattered and the SAM's fell to the ground or shot off harmlessly with no tracking.

He turned to us and said... "Thank you, if your Jammers didn't do thier job half my men wouldn't be here in this room tonight". Then we got a standing ovation.

Makes you pretty humble when you are 21 years old.

Never again did I think that what I did, didn't matter.

I would tell that story to every new guy I got in my shop from then on to never listen to those who would dismiss what those not on the tip of the spear do.
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Old 03-02-2012, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
The older I get, the more I like the idea of dividing our country into two groups, civilians and citizens.

To become a citizen, you have to serve honorably in the military and for your service you get the right to vote, run for public office and/or recieve government granted benefits.

If one chooses to stay a civilian, you get no right to vote, you can't serve in public office and in my view, shouldn't get any government benefits that you did not contribute for.

Citizens have rights because they have earned them by putting their lives on the line to protect the country.

Civilians have limited privileges since they risked nothing.

I don't talk much about my military service since I lucked out and served in a time when we weren't involved in any wars.

The men and women who are serving today IMHO are as good as any previous generation.

If it wasn't for people serving our country in the past, we wouldn't have a country.

While I strongly support freedom of speech, with freedom comes responsibility. It is too bad many people are irresponsible.

Nicki
Starship Troopers used that model in the movie. i think it should be implented to stop ignorant people from holding office as we have today. now that may not eliminate it could reduce the douchbag factor alot that we see in politics today.
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Old 03-02-2012, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by metalliman545 View Post
Eh there's a VFW for a reason. Can't join it for graduating basic. Lol.

LOL, the VFW is a private club (please correct me if I am wrong).

The Veterans Administration recognizes non-combat veterans as veterans.

Me? I am a "Vietnam Era Veteran" (yes, that is an official classification).
When the subject of me being a veteran comes up, I always make it clear I am not a "combat veteran".
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Old 03-02-2012, 2:03 PM
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This web site can put in terms for ya... regarding federal points system and benefits what classifies as a "Veteran."

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/benef...etbenefits.htm


What is a "veteran?" One would think that would be an easy question to answer. In the millions of laws passed over two centuries by Congress, you would think that at least one of them would define the term "military veteran."

Most dictionaries define "veteran" as (1) A person who has served in the armed forces, or (2) An old soldier who has seen long service.

Using the dictionary definition, one would be a military veteran with just one day of military service, even with a dishonorable discharge.

I like the following definition, which was once penned by an unknown author:

A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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