Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-03-2007, 8:21 PM
dfletcher dfletcher is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 11,112
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default Folding Mini Ruger

I have a conventionally stocked Ruger Mini 14 and a stainless factory original Ruger wood folding stock. I get to use the folder often enough in Grants Pass, but would like to figure a way to use it in state.

As it happens, I had replaced the issue mag release with a longer one & the thought occured to me, if a mag release were ground flush with the stock (or just below) and a small hole drilled in the flush fitting end of it - requiring a small pin to be inserted to pivot the mag release & drop the mag - this would comply with CA the non - detachable mag requirement.

Now replacing the mag release & spring is a bit of a pain, using a slave pin set up makes it easier, so I don't see folks routinely switch back & forth. Also, I believe the use of preban +10 mags - while OK in the conventional stocked Ruger - are not OK in the folder.

Am I missing something with respect to the law or practicality?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-03-2007, 8:26 PM
wilit's Avatar
wilit wilit is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 37.78514 North 122.40100 West
Posts: 4,973
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Even if you were to fix the mag, you'd be well under the 30" limit with the stock folded. To meet that, you'd need to permantly fix the stock, thus defeating the purpose of the folding stock.
__________________
"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"You have to be willing to swing your nuts like a deadblow hammer to put these jackasses in their place." - AJAX22
"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry." - William F Buckley Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-03-2007, 9:25 PM
snobordr's Avatar
snobordr snobordr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: East Bay, NO PRK
Posts: 329
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default I wonder........

just how long that muzzle brake would have to be?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22
You can call it Susan if you want to, just don't expect the DOJ to play along.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bweise
They're upset and associating Armageddon w/only 21 guns and 10K rounds of ammo???

Geez, they have really low standards
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2007, 6:13 AM
Wildhawk66's Avatar
Wildhawk66 Wildhawk66 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,096
iTrader: 183 / 100%
Default

Thought the federal overall length only had to be 26", not 30". This particular rifle might still not be legal folded, but you might want to remeasure(and double check the fed minimum length requirement to make sure I'm not sending you up the river).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2007, 6:16 AM
dfletcher dfletcher is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 11,112
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Cal OAL is 30", but I'm not certain if that is with the presumption it has a detach mag which, I believe, this would not be considered to have.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2007, 7:08 AM
Stanze's Avatar
Stanze Stanze is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,867
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Cal OAL is 30", but I'm not certain if that is with the presumption it has a detach mag which, I believe, this would not be considered to have.
The CA 30" OAL law only applies to centerfire rifles. Rimfire rifles are exempt and must comply with the 26" Federal law, which is why you might not want a Ruger 10/22 with a folding stock and 16" barrel (They usually come with 18.5" barrels).
__________________
Constitutionally, officials cannot license or register a fundamental right.

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." - Benjamin Franklin


Quote:
"Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack." -Stanze
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2007, 7:43 AM
ask80 ask80 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 230
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

last time i checked, a mini 14 is a centerfire rifle and not a rimfire.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2007, 9:51 PM
wilit's Avatar
wilit wilit is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 37.78514 North 122.40100 West
Posts: 4,973
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
a. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
b. A thumbhole stock.
c. A folding or telescoping stock.
d. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
e. A flash suppressor.
f. A forward pistol grip.
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
Doesn't matter if it's a fixed mag or not. Semi-auto centerfire must be 30" in the state of CA.
__________________
"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"You have to be willing to swing your nuts like a deadblow hammer to put these jackasses in their place." - AJAX22
"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry." - William F Buckley Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2007, 9:59 PM
NeoWeird's Avatar
NeoWeird NeoWeird is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,349
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

You could always just get a Ciener kit for it and take the easy way out...
__________________
quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:12 AM
Stanze's Avatar
Stanze Stanze is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,867
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ5&G23 View Post
OK, so what if it is over 30" extended and he just doesn't fold it unless he is out of state? Isn't this similar to the Prince-50 concept? It may have the "capacity to be less than 30 inches" but it isn't unless it is folded?
Nice try, but CA measures OAL with the stock folded(presuming you have a fixed 10 round mag setup). Federal measures OAL with the stock extended, in both jurisdictions the barrel must be at least 16", unless you have a permanently attached muzzle brake or flash hider that makes "barrel" length 16" or have NFA tax stamp.

Point being, regardless wheter the stock is folded or not, it better be 30" OAL at all times in CA unless you have a registered "Assault Weapon" or rimfire semi-auto rifle.
__________________
Constitutionally, officials cannot license or register a fundamental right.

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." - Benjamin Franklin


Quote:
"Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack." -Stanze

Last edited by Stanze; 04-05-2007 at 12:14 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-05-2007, 6:20 AM
dfletcher dfletcher is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 11,112
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

The statute posted doesn't state how CA measures it - maybe there's more info on that elsewhere? I'd be inclined to agree if the statute referenced a "minimum" or "when folded" OAL but it simply states overall length. That would lead me to think that so long as I don't fold it I'm fine.

Unfortunately the damn stock alone is probably worth more than the gun and that's one of the reasons I don't modify it so it can be locked in the open position. I was surprised as hell to see them on EBay for $300.00 to $450.00.

I'll probably just limit myself to out of state fun with it.

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-05-2007 at 7:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-05-2007, 9:57 PM
wilit's Avatar
wilit wilit is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 37.78514 North 122.40100 West
Posts: 4,973
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
The statute posted doesn't state how CA measures it - maybe there's more info on that elsewhere? I'd be inclined to agree if the statute referenced a "minimum" or "when folded" OAL but it simply states overall length. That would lead me to think that so long as I don't fold it I'm fine.
It's your life. If you want to risk a felony charge, go ahead. You being the test case would certainly put to rest the arguement of how CA measures the OAL.
__________________
"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
"You have to be willing to swing your nuts like a deadblow hammer to put these jackasses in their place." - AJAX22
"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry." - William F Buckley Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-07-2007, 1:16 PM
NeoWeird's Avatar
NeoWeird NeoWeird is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,349
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Unforuntealy, even though the California Penal Code does not specifically mention how the stock is measured, and even though Federal law dictates that the stock is measured open, the 1993 court case People v. Rooney established case law in California that for the purpose of measuring length, rifles with folding stocks are measured in their shortest possible configuration. Sorry, no dice in California.
__________________
quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-07-2007, 1:24 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,793
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoWeird View Post
Unforuntealy, even though the California Penal Code does not specifically mention how the stock is measured, and even though Federal law dictates that the stock is measured open, the 1993 court case People v. Rooney established case law in California that for the purpose of measuring length, rifles with folding stocks are measured in their shortest possible configuration. Sorry, no dice in California.
Thanks for the reference.

That likely would carry forward as a standard into SB23-related stuff, although SB23 was not in place or in force when Rooney was decided.
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:46 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.