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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-03-2007, 12:22 PM
James R. James R. is offline
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Default Quick Update for Utah CWP Applicants...

I got my documents into them on the 25th of January and still haven't seen my permit. I called today to ask what was going on since from the class we were instructed IIRC to not bother them until 60 days had passed.

The lady on the phone from Utah BCI informed me that from start to finish the processing time now is approximately 100 days. I countered with in not so many words...

"The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a
concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of
age or older within 60 days after receiving an application and upon proof that
the person applying is of good character."

To which she agreed entirely. She said however that, "we can only process them as fast as we can process them and right now that's about 100 days".

So those of you like myself who thought you'd get your permit in your mailbox in 60~65 days think again. Just as she was about to hang up I asked if there was any way to tell where I fell in the queue and she informed me that they're on January 22nd at the moment. So I asked how far out is the 25th and she indicated it could be within the next week or two.

Given that they're doing such a great service to the cause of, "Right To Carry" I wasn't about to get uppity with her so I let the conversation stand at that and a thanks. That is all...

Regards,

James R.

Last edited by James R.; 04-03-2007 at 12:24 PM..
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  #2  
Old 04-03-2007, 12:41 PM
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yea...we covered this topic back last summer. they were already taking the full 60days to get them out. there was even an article in the paper (utah) about how woefully understaffed the bci offices were. hope you didn't leave your name.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:46 PM
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yea...we covered this topic back last summer. they were already taking the full 60days to get them out. there was even an article in the paper (utah) about how woefully understaffed the bci offices were. hope you didn't leave your name.
Well there's a big difference between taking the full 60 days which any reasonable person should be willing to accept and taking 167% of the time alloted to issue the permit.

As to the latter part, hell no. The lady who picked up the phone didn't even offer a name, not even a fake one ;-) I sure as heck wasn't going to offer up mine unless asked for it specifically. I'm hoping she was just being conservative in saying 100 days in hopes to keep people off her back...

Regards,

James R.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:55 PM
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I just read an article at arfcom stating that after the shooting in the mall that there are around 500-575 applicants to be processed PER DAY which is roughly twice what they were previous to the incident.
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  #5  
Old 04-03-2007, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pnkssbtz View Post
I just read an article at arfcom stating that after the shooting in the mall that there are around 500-575 applicants to be processed PER DAY which is roughly twice what they were previous to the incident.
Wow, well if there's any positive outcome of that tragedy this would have to be one!

Regards,

James R.
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  #6  
Old 04-03-2007, 2:37 PM
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Well there's a big difference between taking the full 60 days which any reasonable person should be willing to accept and taking 167% of the time alloted to issue the permit.
the point i was making was that last summer, they were taking the full 60d, whereas before, they were generally taking ~30d. since the bci's understaffed/underfunded woes were documented in the media, it could have only gotten worse in the 9mo since.

considering that you're applying for ut's ccw and the difficulty of getting one in kalifornistan, cut them some slack. sheesh, it's only another 40d (about the time it takes normal ppl to buy 2 handguns). since you haven't had a utah ccw for this long, i'm sure you (or any reasonable person) would be willing to wait another month, considering all of the 'benefits' it will bring you. just calm down and don't get yer panties in a bunch.

besides, i'm sure if you ponied up another $240k for them to hire another 3-4 staff members, they'll get to your application alot sooner.
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  #7  
Old 04-03-2007, 4:06 PM
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the point i was making was that last summer, they were taking the full 60d, whereas before, they were generally taking ~30d. since the bci's understaffed/underfunded woes were documented in the media, it could have only gotten worse in the 9mo since.

considering that you're applying for ut's ccw and the difficulty of getting one in kalifornistan, cut them some slack. sheesh, it's only another 40d (about the time it takes normal ppl to buy 2 handguns). since you haven't had a utah ccw for this long, i'm sure you (or any reasonable person) would be willing to wait another month, considering all of the 'benefits' it will bring you. just calm down and don't get yer panties in a bunch.

besides, i'm sure if you ponied up another $240k for them to hire another 3-4 staff members, they'll get to your application alot sooner.
Can't say I much appreciate your tone Did you not read my entire post?

"Given that they're doing such a great service to the cause of, "Right To Carry" I wasn't about to get uppity with her so I let the conversation stand at that and a thanks. That is all..."

Regards,

James R.
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2007, 5:00 PM
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Can't say I much appreciate your tone Did you not read my entire post?

"Given that they're doing such a great service to the cause of, "Right To Carry" I wasn't about to get uppity with her so I let the conversation stand at that and a thanks. That is all..."
i did, indeed. some of your tone in the subsequent replies is what triggered mine. and did you not see all of my emoticons? i didn't start off with any sort of tone, just responding to yours.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2007, 5:01 PM
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Wow, well if there's any positive outcome of that tragedy this would have to be one!
+1...

especially when news reports said the off duty cop was CCW'ing...
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2007, 6:34 PM
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i did, indeed. some of your tone in the subsequent replies is what triggered mine. and did you not see all of my emoticons? i didn't start off with any sort of tone, just responding to yours.
Does that mean I can tell you to go do such and such with yer mother or whatever if I put a smiley at the end? <- Smileys make it all better!

In any event my panties aren't bunched and I made it clear I appreciate that Utah grants permits to non-residents. Many states do, but it seems the Utah one is the best game going so that's the route I went.

I posted this up as information for those who are waiting on their permits. We were given the impression in class IIRC that it would take 60 days and that they were taking the full 60. I waited more than 60 days with ample time for mail and the like before bothering to call. Finding out that the ETA on permits is 100 days now IMHO seems of general interest to everyone and apparently not entirely common knowledge.

I could have just as easily not posted and let everyone fend for themselves, just sharing a bit of info is all.

Regards,

James R.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2007, 8:48 PM
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Anytime a state or other government entity violates the law regarding what few CCW laws we have in this nation, it is of interest.

I bet nobody goes to prison over this, but try doing 100mph in a 60mph zone in Utah and see what happens?

Failure to issue what can easily and demonstrably be a life-saving document is arguably a much greater violation.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2007, 9:56 PM
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I got my Utah CCW a few weeks ago; it took about 85 days. A buddy of mine mailed his stuff in the same day as I, and he is still waiting.

Having said that, 85 days is nothing - it took 18 months for my CA CCW...

Sawdust
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2007, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by artherd View Post
Anytime a state or other government entity violates the law regarding what few CCW laws we have in this nation, it is of interest.

I bet nobody goes to prison over this, but try doing 100mph in a 60mph zone in Utah and see what happens?

Failure to issue what can easily and demonstrably be a life-saving document is arguably a much greater violation.
I do agree, the law is the law is the law. By not issuing in a timely manner they are breaking their own law. However I'm not sure what the consequences of that actually are. In any event I'm not up in arms about it, but I just wanted to clue people in. The 60 days they're required to grant or deny your application in are a pipe dream apparently. Seems according to her that 100 days is more the norm, hopefully that's on the conservative side of things.

Regards,

James R.
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2007, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sawdust View Post
I got my Utah CCW a few weeks ago; it took about 85 days. A buddy of mine mailed his stuff in the same day as I, and he is still waiting.

Having said that, 85 days is nothing - it took 18 months for my CA CCW...

Sawdust
Mmmmm California CWP, what did you use for your GC? I live in Orange County so I suppose if i went for it I'd have better than an ice cubes chance in hell of getting one.

Regards,

James R.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2007, 10:25 PM
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We should be happy that they are so overwhelmed with demand. That shows that CCW is gaining in popularity. Our big task now is to fix CCW in California.

James, if you live in OC, and you don't have any problems (arrest record, stuff like that), you have a very high chance of getting it. Check out: http://www.calccw.com. It's full of OC CCW people who can help you.
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2007, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SunshineGlocker View Post
We should be happy that they are so overwhelmed with demand. That shows that CCW is gaining in popularity. Our big task now is to fix CCW in California.

James, if you live in OC, and you don't have any problems (arrest record, stuff like that), you have a very high chance of getting it. Check out: http://www.calccw.com. It's full of OC CCW people who can help you.
Thanks...

I've poked around there in the past, I just worry about my ability to formulate a decent GC statement. I don't think submitting avid shooter alone is a good idea...despite the fact that I transport the most evil weapon known to man, aka 50 BMG ;-) What ever would we do if I were mugged and it fell into the hands of terrorists?!?! ;-)

My adult record is spotless, my youth record has one arrest for 602L, Entering/Occupying Real Property w/o Owner Consent, aka trespassing. My buddies and I decided to play a round of paintball in the abandoned Thousand Oaks City Hall ;-) It was truly harmless, but the old fogies that lived in the retirement community across the way called the police when they saw us marching up the hill to the building.

I thought that (very minor) stuff you did as a kid couldn't catch up to you, but when I was in College I applied for a ride-a-long as part of a report on public service and my request was denied because I had a juvenile arrest on their records. I talked to my next door neighbor who was a cop and he got everything straightened out for me and the denial reversed.

I doubt this would have any bearing on my application, but then again...being denied a ride-a-long based on a juvenile arrest for trespassing (no vandalism or anything) would have NEVER entered into my mind when I was filling out my request.

I had a good time FWIW...the ride-a-long that is, I did a double shift with the cop.

Regards,

James R.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2007, 11:28 PM
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James you have a very strong chance of getting a CCW. More than 75% chance if you put in the effort to a) join that forum and get their help in formulating your statement and b) apply. If you don't have a permit, it's your choice. Don't complain about the laws in California because there's a permit waiting for you if you put in the effort to get it. You've already decided you don't have GC, when in fact you do have it, you just need help understanding it and expressing it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, I guess.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SunshineGlocker View Post
James you have a very strong chance of getting a CCW. More than 75% chance if you put in the effort to a) join that forum and get their help in formulating your statement and b) apply. If you don't have a permit, it's your choice. Don't complain about the laws in California because there's a permit waiting for you if you put in the effort to get it. You've already decided you don't have GC, when in fact you do have it, you just need help understanding it and expressing it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, I guess.
Ohh don't get me wrong man, I'm not saying I won't try. In fact maybe with some of the money I hope to get back from Uncle Sam this year I'll get the ball rolling.

Did you get yours? I figured I'd go for the Utah one first since it's honored in so many places and relatively easy...then move on to the California permit which is of course more useful to me than the Utah one.

Regards,

James R.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2007, 7:50 AM
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James,

Thank you for the update on turn around times. Utah BCI are definitely overwhelmed with the amount of permit applications. They are good people down there and are getting them done as quickly as they can. Hopefully BCI can hire some more staff to get the time frame back to what is mandated by law.
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:14 AM
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James,

Thank you for the update on turn around times. Utah BCI are definitely overwhelmed with the amount of permit applications. They are good people down there and are getting them done as quickly as they can. Hopefully BCI can hire some more staff to get the time frame back to what is mandated by law.
They're certainly doing a service to the nation which is why I'm not upset. I just wanted to clue people in about the expanded timeframe. If I understand her correctly I guess mine will show up in around 80 days (start to finish) because she said we're on Jan 22 today, my application is only 3 days away from that which is a few weeks on their current time table. I dunno if she means they'll start processing when they get there or that they'll mail my stuff out by then...I hope the latter as I assume there's some delay in the work the FBI does, running your prints and background check etc.

In any event it's no biggie. Even at 100 days it's faster and easier to obtain than the California permit.

Regards,

James R.

PS - You ever get those 10~13 myths or whatever articles I scanned in for ya? I know something went wrong the last time I tried to send them to you.
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  #21  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:01 AM
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I just noticed there was a new CCW sponsor for the Utah AND Florida permit in the same class.

Has anyone gone through these guys yet?

http://www.americanccw.com/
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:40 AM
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I just noticed there was a new CCW sponsor for the Utah AND Florida permit in the same class.

Has anyone gone through these guys yet?

http://www.americanccw.com/
Dunno but that's $50 more than Jim charges. The Florida angle is interesting for $25 more but their permit fees are much higher and the renewal fees are much much higher than Utah. I suppose if you want to carry in Florida however it's a good deal. Utah CWP holders can carry in Florida as well, but they only honor Utah resident CWP holders.

Regards,

James R.
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Old 04-04-2007, 4:07 PM
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Does that mean I can tell you to go do such and such with yer mother or whatever if I put a smiley at the end? <- Smileys make it all better!
you may say anything you like to me (or anyone else on this forum), but you should probably leave family members out of posts. personal attacks are meaningless, but an attack on a family member will beg for something else, emoticon or not. sheesh...just let it go already.

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Originally Posted by artherd View Post
Anytime a state or other government entity violates the law regarding what few CCW laws we have in this nation, it is of interest.

I bet nobody goes to prison over this, but try doing 100mph in a 60mph zone in Utah and see what happens?

Failure to issue what can easily and demonstrably be a life-saving document is arguably a much greater violation.
*shrug* i see alot of ppl violating the law w/o any sort of recriminations (ie the number of ppl doing 100+ on i-5) and gov't agencies not conforming to what their timelines/guidelines/rules are. again, if they're so understaffed/underfunded, there's not much they can do about it. maybe you can start a legislative petition to get them more funding/staff? volunteer there? who knows. like that lady said, they're doing what they can, as fast as they can. yes, it's very sad that there's been a delay and the utah bci is violating their established timetable. but the fact is, they're still issuing the permits. remember, a ccw delayed is still a ccw.

since we're all kalifornistan residents, then the argument that this document is "easily and demonstrably a life-saving document" doesn't really hold up, as this permit isn't even honoured here (besides, that's why we have the police, so we don't have to carry firearms to protect ourselves. ). if we were utah residents, perhaps this might be a bigger issue.
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Old 04-04-2007, 9:54 PM
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Mmmmm California CWP, what did you use for your GC? I live in Orange County so I suppose if i went for it I'd have better than an ice cubes chance in hell of getting one.

Regards,

James R.
Businessman transporting cash and valuables.

Sawdust
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:40 PM
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you may say anything you like to me (or anyone else on this forum), but you should probably leave family members out of posts. personal attacks are meaningless, but an attack on a family member will beg for something else, emoticon or not. sheesh...just let it go already.

I was proving a point, there's a reason I kept it so nebulous. It was an example...hence, "such and such to so and so" type statements. My main point is you failed to notice that I wasn't railing on the Utah BCI from the start.


*shrug* i see alot of ppl violating the law w/o any sort of recriminations (ie the number of ppl doing 100+ on i-5) and gov't agencies not conforming to what their timelines/guidelines/rules are. again, if they're so understaffed/underfunded, there's not much they can do about it. maybe you can start a legislative petition to get them more funding/staff? volunteer there? who knows. like that lady said, they're doing what they can, as fast as they can. yes, it's very sad that there's been a delay and the utah bci is violating their established timetable. but the fact is, they're still issuing the permits. remember, a ccw delayed is still a ccw.

True, but we're talking about the law here, not a casual agreement. They probably should add more people or ammend the law to state some other period of time. Again, I'm not making a big issue of it...so the point is moot.


since we're all kalifornistan residents, then the argument that this document is "easily and demonstrably a life-saving document" doesn't really hold up, as this permit isn't even honoured here (besides, that's why we have the police, so we don't have to carry firearms to protect ourselves. ). if we were utah residents, perhaps this might be a bigger issue.
....
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:51 PM
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but the fact is, they're still issuing the permits. remember, a ccw delayed is still a ccw.
Not if they're killed while the paperwork is 'in process'.

Quote:
since we're all kalifornistan residents, then the argument that this document is "easily and demonstrably a life-saving document" doesn't really hold up, as this permit isn't even honoured here
1) Wether I am traveling in any of the ~26 states that honour the Utah Permit, or I live there, I have equal rights to self-defense, and equal perril on par with (possibly greater than) residents.

2) The delays also presumeably apply to resident permits.

Quote:
if we were utah residents, perhaps this might be a bigger issue.
I feel it is an important issue for everyone who wishes to legally excercise their right to self-defense. My opinion, discuss.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2007, 6:15 AM
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Utah has real humans doing the forms. If they find a minor typo they will actually figure it out or cross reference info. Mine took 65 days or so last year. You'll get it in 90-100 days if they said that's what it will take.
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Old 04-06-2007, 1:54 PM
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Not if they're killed while the paperwork is 'in process'.
not really. again, since the permit isn't valid in kalifornia, it really has little meaning for us as to how long it takes. if we're that much in danger, we should rely on the police or get a kali ccw.

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1) Wether I am traveling in any of the ~26 states that honour the Utah Permit, or I live there, I have equal rights to self-defense, and equal perril on par with (possibly greater than) residents.

2) The delays also presumeably apply to resident permits.

I feel it is an important issue for everyone who wishes to legally excercise their right to self-defense. My opinion, discuss.
if you base your argument on the fact that that there's a delay in receiving the ccw that affects your travel plans, any judge/jury/public official/leo/etc will tell most likely tell you something along these lines, "failure to plan properly on your part does not constitute an emergency on ours." basically, you should have applied earlier, in anticipation for your trip, or just delay your trip. remember that there's been sufficient notice that this is taking longer than expected (ie newspaper articles), so there's no reason not to have any sort of 'spoiled child/instant gratification/etc' syndrome (esp from non-residents) about not getting it in the time they're supposed to. a budget shortfall is affecting them. something that they'll have to address/fix, but we'll have to suffer to get our non-rez ccw.

utah residents may get preferential processing of their applications, as the permit is more applicable to them...similar to how there's a 'u.s. citizen' line and an 'all others' line at airports. or, how kali residents have a lower set of qualifications to get into uc than non-rez.

i fully agree that a ccw is a legitimate issue regarding personal protection and self-defence, but again, utah is doing non-residents a great service by handing out non-rez permits. a delay will still get us our permits. it's different than if they said they won't issue non-rez permits.

of course, just my $0.02.

Last edited by rips31; 04-06-2007 at 2:12 PM..
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2007, 2:16 PM
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rips31 rips31 is offline
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I was proving a point, there's a reason I kept it so nebulous. It was an example...hence, "such and such to so and so" type statements. My main point is you failed to notice that I wasn't railing on the Utah BCI from the start.

True, but we're talking about the law here, not a casual agreement. They probably should add more people or ammend the law to state some other period of time. Again, I'm not making a big issue of it...so the point is moot.
no, i fully understood your first post. and my first post was a simple reply, illustrating that the backup started already last summer. however your subsequent posts became defencive and took the air of an entitlement, which elicited my responses. almost sounded like the kid that missed the lollipop by 1 person. eh...it's not a big deal.
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Old 04-06-2007, 2:45 PM
James R. James R. is offline
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no, i fully understood your first post. and my first post was a simple reply, illustrating that the backup started already last summer. however your subsequent posts became defencive and took the air of an entitlement, which elicited my responses. almost sounded like the kid that missed the lollipop by 1 person. eh...it's not a big deal.
Heh, well I am entitled per Utah law ;-) It's a shall issue state and I meet the requirements in which case I have a right to one as much as anyone else.

Bottom line is I'm not making a fuss over the time I'm just giving people a heads up and do find it interesting that they're basically breaking the law by not issuing in a timely fashion. IMHO in order to avoid that they should staff up and raise the fees a bit or request more monies from the state to meet the increased demand.

I don't want to make two posts out of this so in reply to your comment to the other poster about it not being honored in Kahlifornia. While that's true he made the point about someone traveling out of state. In that case the person who needs the Utah CCW is probably under more risk than someone in Utah who needs one all other things being equal. When you travel you are hands down more vunerable, unfamiliar places, unfamiliar faces ;-)

C'mon sing it with me ;-)

People are strange, when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked, when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven, when you're down

When you're strange- faces come out of the rain (rain, rain)
When you're strange- no one remembers your name
When you're strange, when you're strange, when you're str-ange

Rinse Wash Repeat...

Regards,

James R.
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Old 04-06-2007, 3:21 PM
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Heh, well I am entitled per Utah law ;-) It's a shall issue state and I meet the requirements in which case I have a right to one as much as anyone else.

Bottom line is I'm not making a fuss over the time I'm just giving people a heads up and do find it interesting that they're basically breaking the law by not issuing in a timely fashion. IMHO in order to avoid that they should staff up and raise the fees a bit or request more monies from the state to meet the increased demand.

I don't want to make two posts out of this so in reply to your comment to the other poster about it not being honored in Kahlifornia. While that's true he made the point about someone traveling out of state. In that case the person who needs the Utah CCW is probably under more risk than someone in Utah who needs one all other things being equal. When you travel you are hands down more vunerable, unfamiliar places, unfamiliar faces ;-)

C'mon sing it with me ;-)

People are strange, when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked, when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven, when you're down

When you're strange- faces come out of the rain (rain, rain)
When you're strange- no one remembers your name
When you're strange, when you're strange, when you're str-ange

Rinse Wash Repeat...
lol...absolutely. we're all entitled to it. just that they prob do give a little more weight to any postmark w/a 'utah' on it, since it's more meaningful to them. i know i'd rather pay more money for the damn permit and have them get it out sooner, than later.

as for travel, hell, i'm more scared to travel to oakland than i am to stay in sf. can't recall which has the higher rate of firearm death in 2007. lol.
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Old 04-06-2007, 3:37 PM
James R. James R. is offline
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lol...absolutely. we're all entitled to it. just that they prob do give a little more weight to any postmark w/a 'utah' on it, since it's more meaningful to them. i know i'd rather pay more money for the damn permit and have them get it out sooner, than later.

as for travel, hell, i'm more scared to travel to oakland than i am to stay in sf. can't recall which has the higher rate of firearm death in 2007. lol.
Oakland is very very safe, just ask Jerry Brown ;-)

Regards,

James R.
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Old 04-07-2007, 2:42 AM
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nif you base your argument on the fact that that there's a delay in receiving the ccw that affects your travel plans, any judge/jury/public official/leo/etc will tell most likely tell you something along these lines, "failure to plan properly on your part does not constitute an emergency on ours." basically, you should have applied earlier, in anticipation for your trip, or just delay your trip.
I should delay my trip, because the State of Utah is breaking the law? Absurd! The very idea that the state may wantonly violate it's own laws, and private industry is expected to bow, absorb, and accept any and all consequences is offensive to the very idea of liberty at best.

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remember that there's been sufficient notice that this is taking longer than expected (ie newspaper articles), so there's no reason not to have any sort of 'spoiled child/instant gratification/etc' syndrome (esp from non-residents) about not getting it in the time they're supposed to. a budget shortfall is affecting them. something that they'll have to address/fix, but we'll have to suffer to get our non-rez ccw.
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Originally Posted by State of Utah
Waaaanaah we're too poor to obey the law!
Issue the damn things as perscribed by law.

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i fully agree that a ccw is a legitimate issue regarding personal protection and self-defence, but again, utah is doing non-residents a great service by handing out non-rez permits. a delay will still get us our permits. it's different than if they said they won't issue non-rez permits.
How big a step is it from violating issuance law (100 days instead of 60) to violating issuance law (100,000days instead of 60) and effectively denying a permit?

Wait, in terms and degree of offence, there is no difference. And therein lies my problem.
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Last edited by artherd; 04-07-2007 at 2:46 AM..
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Old 04-07-2007, 3:10 AM
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I just read an article at arfcom stating that after the shooting in the mall that there are around 500-575 applicants to be processed PER DAY which is roughly twice what they were previous to the incident.
Me too!
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Old 04-08-2007, 11:01 PM
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I should delay my trip, because the State of Utah is breaking the law? Absurd! The very idea that the state may wantonly violate it's own laws, and private industry is expected to bow, absorb, and accept any and all consequences is offensive to the very idea of liberty at best.
if you really want to carry on your trip via utah ccw, you should delay your trip for failure to plan properly. is utah 'wantonly' violating it's own laws? hardly. i don't see this as maliciously delaying the issuance of a ccw for the hell of it or because they can. they're doing as best they can with what they have. note the previous post states that they're processing 2x the number of applications than they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artherd View Post
Issue the damn things as perscribed by law.

How big a step is it from violating issuance law (100 days instead of 60) to violating issuance law (100,000days instead of 60) and effectively denying a permit?

Wait, in terms and degree of offence, there is no difference. And therein lies my problem.
is there a difference between 60, 100, 100,000, and 0? absolutely. effectively denying a permit? they haven't even come close. degree? a substantiated delay due to forces beyond their control is hardly grounds for you to call it 'effectively denying a permit.' afaik, people are still getting their ccw, albeit slower than they'd like. take a deep breath and breathe.
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Old 06-21-2008, 8:15 AM
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As a Utah resident let me say, don't worry. Your permits will come just at or past there speculated arrival time. It is the same slow story whether you are a resident or nonresident. As mentioned before, they are state employees, and will get it done.....when they get it done.

And as for the fears concerning the elimination of Non-Resident CWP. Don't worry. The attitude here on concealed weapons is casual, and for now the liberals have given up the fight.

Recently the resident permits have become so prevalent, that all peer to peer transfers are generally contingent upon the buyer showing his permit. Last night I purchased a FAL and in true fashion we presented our cards to make the transaction feel warm and fuzzy.

Unless you are a real shady guy with some recent or repeated history. You are going to get your permit. There is no need for the scarcity mentality that the wonderful state of California has instilled in their gun owners. Walk don't run to your classes.
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Old 06-21-2008, 8:49 PM
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James, someone mentioned your chances of obtaining a ccw in OC. I'm sure you know there is a new Sheriff in town and from what I read in another thread, she intends to examine all of the permit holders and if "necessary," revoke or not renew the ones she doesn't deem "proper."

Also, since she is a former division chief with lasd, she probably favors Baca's thinking (tho I could be incorrect and time will tell).

Since she is new and intends to examine the whole ccw process, you may have some time on your hands before she begins oking any ccws.

Good luck.
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Old 06-23-2008, 3:05 PM
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Utah received my application on 4/16. I just got my permit in the mail today, 6/23. It was issued on 6/19. The only strange thing I noticed is that it says "this permit is valid contingent on a satisfactory criminal history report being received from the FBI."
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Old 06-23-2008, 4:02 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
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The people in the BCI are not responsible for the delays. I know the law says "60 days" but it's not their fault that they have the budget and staff that they have. I hope everyone here is nice to them on the phone, even if the permit is late.
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Old 06-24-2008, 7:49 AM
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I mailed in my paperwork the last week of March and got the permit three weeks ago....I'm happy.
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