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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2012, 7:14 PM
Aldemar Aldemar is offline
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Default CHL Insurance ?

Looking thru The Concealed Handgun Manual by Chris Bird (2011 edition). He mentions that one can get a CHL Protection Policy from at least 3 different sources:

www.chlpp.com
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
www.nraendorsedinsurance.com

Seems like a can't lose deal. My big question is will one of these policies cover a self-defense shooting in a state that does not recognize your permit? For instance, I have permits from AZ, FL & UT but since I live in Los Angeles County, obtaining one for CA is impossible.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these policies i possible - hopefully no one has had to actually use it's benefits.
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Old 02-14-2012, 7:33 PM
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Check your own policies,mfirst. Many homeowner's polices cover shootings as, long as there is no finding of criminal act by you, same for umbrella policies. At the least, they will provide a paid defense until such time you are charged with a crime.
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Old 02-14-2012, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldemar View Post
Looking thru The Concealed Handgun Manual by Chris Bird (2011 edition). He mentions that one can get a CHL Protection Policy from at least 3 different sources:

www.chlpp.com
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
www.nraendorsedinsurance.com

Seems like a can't lose deal. My big question is will one of these policies cover a self-defense shooting in a state that does not recognize your permit? For instance, I have permits from AZ, FL & UT but since I live in Los Angeles County, obtaining one for CA is impossible.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these policies i possible - hopefully no one has had to actually use it's benefits.
I highly recommend the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. They do a 5K to 10K money drop to a local lawyer to defend you. I believe Adam Richards, Jason Davis, Chuck Michel, & Bruce Colodny are in their attorney network, IIRC on California.

On their advisory board, they have Massad Ayoob & Dennis Tueller. Look those names up.
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Old 02-14-2012, 9:17 PM
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scarville scarville is offline
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If you go for an umbrella policy be sure it covers self defense. The Auto Club wanted to sell me an umbrella policy but the agent I talked to told me it would not cover any judgements resulting from self defense.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2012, 9:21 PM
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A timely post for me.. I've had my Arizona and Florida permits for a bit, but it's only once a month or so that I am in a state where I am carrying. I recently obtained my CA CCW and now that I am carrying everyday I was just looking into this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTDIRT4U View Post
Check your own policies,mfirst. Many homeowner's polices cover shootings as, long as there is no finding of criminal act by you, same for umbrella policies. At the least, they will provide a paid defense until such time you are charged with a crime.

Check your homeowners policy with a FINE TOOTH comb. My policy is like 30 pages or so of small type. I have the PDF and searched for "firearms" "self defense" "guns", etc. No exclusions.. Until I read every word and found this craftily worded exclusion to personal & property liability:

Quote:
10. Bodily injury or property damage arising out of the discharge, dispersal, release, escape or presence of lead or any substance containing lead."
Lead free ammo anyone?

Insurance companies are all shysters..

Thanks for the links. I was looking at the NRA endorsed insurance today as I will be using that for instructor liability. Now I have some others to consider..
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Old 02-15-2012, 4:28 AM
Wrangler John Wrangler John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
I highly recommend the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. They do a 5K to 10K money drop to a local lawyer to defend you. I believe Adam Richards, Jason Davis, Chuck Michel, & Bruce Colodny are in their attorney network, IIRC on California.

On their advisory board, they have Massad Ayoob & Dennis Tueller. Look those names up.
Now there is some useful information.

Thank you.
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Old 02-15-2012, 8:13 AM
Aldemar Aldemar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTDIRT4U View Post
Check your own policies,mfirst. Many homeowner's polices cover shootings as, long as there is no finding of criminal act by you, same for umbrella policies. At the least, they will provide a paid defense until such time you are charged with a crime.

My primary concern is proper representation in the event I am taken into custody. In California, I have enough information as to who to contact, but out of state is another matter entirely. Let's say you get in an altercation with a couple of amateur chemists in Middle of Nowhere, Mississippi. It would be nice to know that with one call, you could get some immediate assistance.

Far better to spend a small sum of money to prevent an indictment and trial than have to defend ones self in court.

I took a quick look at the www.chlpp.com site. I just scanned their comparison but have not really looked deeper yet - I will tonight.
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Old 02-15-2012, 4:21 PM
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Default I was taught to be insurance-poor.

So, I have both the NRA Self-Defense Insurance and the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Fund for my wife and I. This is in addition to my State Farm Umbrella policy, which for others, has paid for a self defense shooting. According to what I have read, they take self-defense shootings on a case-by-case basis.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldemar View Post
My primary concern is proper representation in the event I am taken into custody. In California, I have enough information as to who to contact, but out of state is another matter entirely. Let's say you get in an altercation with a couple of amateur chemists in Middle of Nowhere, Mississippi. It would be nice to know that with one call, you could get some immediate assistance.

Far better to spend a small sum of money to prevent an indictment and trial than have to defend ones self in court.

I took a quick look at the www.chlpp.com site. I just scanned their comparison but have not really looked deeper yet - I will tonight.
Very constructive thread. We almost need a sticky of acknowledged (note I didn't say approved) insurance plans that cover self defense shootings and legal costs.
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"Over-sentimentality, over-softness, in fact washiness and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people. Unless we keep the barbarian virtue, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail." - Theodore Roosevelt

Quote:
Would you people please stop bashing "Elmer Fudd?" After all, he was an avid sportsman, hunter, and 2a supporter. -Ed in Sac
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:26 PM
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paul0660 paul0660 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldemar View Post
Looking thru The Concealed Handgun Manual by Chris Bird (2011 edition). He mentions that one can get a CHL Protection Policy from at least 3 different sources:

www.chlpp.com
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
www.nraendorsedinsurance.com

Seems like a can't lose deal. My big question is will one of these policies cover a self-defense shooting in a state that does not recognize your permit? For instance, I have permits from AZ, FL & UT but since I live in Los Angeles County, obtaining one for CA is impossible.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these policies i possible - hopefully no one has had to actually use it's benefits.
So you want someone who has bought these policies to read them, understand them, tell you about them, and based on that you would buy one?

Insurance agents will fax you the moon. Get it in writing.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2012, 6:11 PM
Spirit 1 Spirit 1 is offline
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Thanks for the great info, guys!

I make a habit of living in small towns or no towns. Have to say that my current insurance agent & my former agent are 100% stand up folks who have helped me immeasurably.

They explained policies & exclusions, where I'm hanging wide open & where I'm covered & not covered in extreme detail. Both have contacted me out of the blue with warnings about coverage or lapses that could have really screwed me up had I not known.

Thing is I'm a very small account, hardly worth their time to write the policy I imagine. They don't care in the least and treat me just like anybody else. Maybe better because both have contacted me on how I can get adequate & comparable coverage at lower rates: when they didn't have to! One even makes it a little game to research minute details & discover yet another lower cost option!

Don't paint all insurance agents with the same broad brush, many if not the majority are very fine folks! Thanks...
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2012, 6:35 PM
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Gray Peterson Gray Peterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldemar View Post
Looking thru The Concealed Handgun Manual by Chris Bird (2011 edition). He mentions that one can get a CHL Protection Policy from at least 3 different sources:

www.chlpp.com
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
www.nraendorsedinsurance.com

Seems like a can't lose deal. My big question is will one of these policies cover a self-defense shooting in a state that does not recognize your permit? For instance, I have permits from AZ, FL & UT but since I live in Los Angeles County, obtaining one for CA is impossible.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these policies i possible - hopefully no one has had to actually use it's benefits.
Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network does not require a CHL anymore, so it covers home defense situations just as much as carry on the street.

Here's how ACLDN works:


Providing Legal Support When It Is Most Needed
Members who have been involved in a self-defense incident receive the following:

• A fee deposit paid to the member's attorney by the Network if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The fee deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident. If the incident results in felony charges the fee deposit is $10,000; if the member faces misdemeanor charges, a $5,000 fee deposit is sent to his or her attorney. If requested by the member or their representative, a Network official will respond to the location to assist the member in obtaining those services.
• Network members are also eligible for additional grants of financial assistance from the Network's legal defense fund if they face unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident occuring during their period of membership.
• The Network will pay in full for one of our experts to review the case file of a member who is being unmeritoriously prosecuted or who is facing civil law suit, and make recommendations to that member's attorney.
• Use of force experts recommend defense strategies to the member’s attorney at no charge.


It's not "insurance" per se. When you call into their lines to get assistance, they specifically tell you not to give them specifics as to what happened other than "It's a self defense incident, this where I live, if applicable, here is the attorney I selected for the case". Of course if you're not at home, they'll find you a lawyer locally to help you. It is then and only then should you speak to the lawyer exactly what happened, as that is protected by privilege.

I'm a huge fan of ACLDN because I'm a member and they have so many affiliated attorneys. If you need some state lists of attorneys, like California, I can post it in attachments here as I'm a member of it and have access to their list.

(Full Disclosure: I'm a fan, but I'm not paid with "memberships" or paid with anything. I just believe in the program).
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