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  #1  
Old 01-27-2012, 8:44 AM
Raptor3000 Raptor3000 is offline
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Default German Mauser K98 Cartouche stamps

Hi Guys,

What does Cartouche stamping in wood on stock mean on German K98? Is it a good thing or just regular stampings?

I mean does it have any collector value?

lastly are 1942 BYF made ones little scarce? or better to have?

Thanks

Last edited by Raptor3000; 01-27-2012 at 9:11 AM..
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2012, 9:20 AM
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The correct term is waffenampts. They show the part was accepted by the army (or other service branch). They're valued in the wood stock as signs that the wood hasn't been sanded and that the stock is WWII rather than something postwar. Fakery abounds though in K98s. If you don't know what you're looking at it's easy to get burned. The K98 forum over on Gunboards.com has many experts who'd be able to tell from photos if what you're looking at is legit.

1942 BYFs are fairly common, however depending on the condition (100% matching, vet bring back with papers for example) the rifle can be quite valuable.
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Old 01-27-2012, 9:23 AM
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Just bought one from classicarms today.

Are these guys legit? Rifle were sold out in 25 mins after listing today.

Thanks
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Old 01-27-2012, 9:27 AM
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It depends. All of them should have acceptance marks, mine are on the right side of the butt, between the bolt takedown hole and the buttplate, and look like scaled up versions of the ones on the metal, a Nazi Eagle with a number under it. Early ones had the Weimar eagle.

I believe they should also have a stamp for the branch of service they were issued to, most of which would be "H" for Heer
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Old 01-27-2012, 9:34 AM
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This was the decription of the rifle on classic arms:

BYF, 1942, Nice laminated stock with really smooth finish and good color. Flat buttplate, Cartouche stamping in wood on stock. Really pretty blue. Dual war eagles plus waffenamp. Serial #'s factory match on bbl, receiver and stock. Bore is NRA very good to excellent with sharp crisp lands and grooves. Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws. Nice rifle overall from a highly sought after factory and with some highly collectible Nazi stampings. Don't miss this one.



I bought this because it has Cartouche markings on wood stock, which on other rifles was not mentioned.

what do you guys think?

Thanks

Last edited by Raptor3000; 01-27-2012 at 9:41 AM..
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:18 AM
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All of the German rifles should have them. Of course, over time, the wood wears down and stuff, so yeah...


Most byf 42s that I've seen are naturally RCs.
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:41 AM
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Is BYF made desirable or just very common?
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:44 AM
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With it being a BYF its a true Mauser, if there's any other codes your looking to find go here bro, this is the site I always use: http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mauser View Post
With it being a BYF its a true Mauser, if there's any other codes your looking to find go here bro, this is the site I always use: http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html
Thank you very much, i will book mark it.

thanks
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  #10  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:00 AM
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I'm trying to grab one of those pre-1940 Mausers.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:07 AM
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which arsenal made ones are more desirable?

thanks
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:15 AM
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ax, BSW, and some of the early codes.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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As an example, according to Backbone of the Wehrmacht, page 187, approximately 380,421 1942 byf's were made as compared to a 1937 BSW with approximately 23,780 - page 53. I haven't been paying attention to 98Ks since the prices skyrocketed several years ago. Even RC's seem to be going up lately.

Seems like 1944 production is the most common all matching non-RC/Yugo German made rifles around, or at least the 4 all matching 98Ks I got my hands on were all 1944 made. Seems logically given the war and all the 98Ks they lost on the Russian front.



As stated above, the guys at gunboards and http://www.k98kforum.com/ are a wealth of knowledge but they do not discuss guns currently at auction.

The guys at http://ww2weaponsforum.com/index.php do discuss current auctions and they have some very knowledgable people at that site too.

Fakes abound so be careful, alas I have been burned so often I should know. If you ever get the German sniper bug, be warned that probably 95% of what you see for sale is fake.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead View Post
As an example, according to Backbone of the Wehrmacht, page 187, approximately 380,421 1942 byf's were made as compared to a 1937 BSW with approximately 23,780 - page 53. I haven't been paying attention to 98Ks since the prices skyrocketed several years ago. Even RC's seem to be going up lately.

Seems like 1944 production is the most common all matching non-RC/Yugo German made rifles around, or at least the 4 all matching 98Ks I got my hands on were all 1944 made. Seems logically given the war and all the 98Ks they lost on the Russian front.



As stated above, the guys at gunboards and http://www.k98kforum.com/ are a wealth of knowledge but they do not discuss guns currently at auction.

The guys at http://ww2weaponsforum.com/index.php do discuss current auctions and they have some very knowledgable people at that site too.

Fakes abound so be careful, alas I have been burned so often I should know. If you ever get the German sniper bug, be warned that probably 95% of what you see for sale is fake.


Can i trust classicarms? I just bought a 42 BYF from them for a premium ofcourse.
paid $479.

I was comparing to Big5 ones, which are sold for $400 and are in really bad condition.

Thanks
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:04 PM
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I bought some RC's from Empire Arms a few years back, they are very good at describing what they sell. Never bought anything from Classicarms.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
Can i trust classicarms? I just bought a 42 BYF from them for a premium ofcourse.
paid $479.

I was comparing to Big5 ones, which are sold for $400 and are in really bad condition.

Thanks
Little late to be asking that now, isn't it?

I am sure it will be fine.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:10 PM
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Classicarms is amazing, very honest very helpful. And the owner Gus is a really great guy.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mauser View Post
Classicarms is amazing, very honest very helpful. And the owner Gus is a really great guy.
Feel little better

This is the description of the one i bought:

BYF, 1942, Nice laminated stock with really smooth finish and good color. Flat buttplate, Cartouche stamping in wood on stock. Really pretty blue. Dual war eagles plus waffenamp. Serial #'s factory match on bbl, receiver and stock. Bore is NRA very good to excellent with sharp crisp lands and grooves. Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws. Nice rifle overall from a highly sought after factory and with some highly collectible Nazi stampings. Don't miss this one.


thansk
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
...Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws.
I wonder if the Russians are now installing repro sight hoods and capture screws or if the importer is doing it?
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mssr. Eleganté View Post
I wonder if the Russians are now installing repro sight hoods and capture screws or if the importer is doing it?
I think importer is doing it.
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2012, 1:01 PM
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Classic Arms did it.

From: http://www.classicarms.us/daniel%20defense.htm

Quote:
We are adding cleaning rods to all rifles and capture screws, and site hoods where appropriate. The cleaning rods, capture screws and sight hoods are all aftermarket but look and work just like the original.
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Old 01-27-2012, 1:55 PM
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One more question, does the Cartouche stamping on wood for a 1942, look like the a Waffenamt (Nazi eagle) shown in the link (Marking on the stock) ?

http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gbwaffen.html

Hoping it does :-)
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Old 01-27-2012, 2:03 PM
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I bought a K-1911 from Classic Arms and I'm very happy with it....UPS not so much.
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Old 01-27-2012, 2:06 PM
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According to Backbone of the Wehrmacht at page 187, a 1942 byf should have a cupped buttplate with a stock marked with WaA655's.

The pic I see on the site is a flat buttplate so I am guessing like most RC's, it has a mismatched stock for it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead View Post
According to Backbone of the Wehrmacht at page 187, a 1942 byf should have a cupped buttplate with a stock marked with WaA655's.

The pic I see on the site is a flat buttplate so I am guessing like most RC's, it has a mismatched stock for it.
Per classic arms, Factory Serial#s match on stock, barrel and receiver. Is it possible they may have produced some without cupped buttplates in 1942?

thanks
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Old 01-27-2012, 2:11 PM
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The Russians stamped the number of the receiver on the stock, is that what they mean by factory serial number matching?
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Old 01-27-2012, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead View Post
The Russians stamped the number of the receiver on the stock, is that what they mean by factory serial number matching?
Hope not
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Old 01-27-2012, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mauser View Post
I'm trying to grab one of those pre-1940 Mausers.
Gun broker, bro
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"...and an old German guy said there was a bit of an unsaid joke about the Nazi salute; apparently when they clicked their heels and raised their arm up in the air in a Nazi salute, they were saying, "we're in this much s___."
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Old 01-27-2012, 3:48 PM
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Russian Captured rifles are like that . . .



Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
Hope not
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:10 PM
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Did Germans stamp serial#s on their wooden stocks? or the number on them are from russians?

thanks
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
Did Germans stamp serial#s on their wooden stocks? or the number on them are from russians?

thanks
German #s are underneath on the bottom, Russian numbers are on the left side, horizontally oriented.
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"...and an old German guy said there was a bit of an unsaid joke about the Nazi salute; apparently when they clicked their heels and raised their arm up in the air in a Nazi salute, they were saying, "we're in this much s___."
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:28 PM
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Did Century already sell out?
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:31 PM
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Now i am wondering classic arms serial# matching, if they are matching the receiver with German numbers or Russian ones :-)

The one i bought is 42 Byf and the stock doesnt have a cupped butt stock and classicarms have listed it as factory serial#s match on stock , bbl and receiver.
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:45 PM
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The Russian Captures that I have seen before have receiver numbers matching to the numbers the Russians stamped on the stock, not the numbers the Germans originally have on the stock.

Germans also numbered the handguard on the inside of it.

As I understand it, the Russians disassembled the rifles, hot dipped the barrel and action then reassembled the rifles without bothering to make sure the numbered parts were the same, so I would not expect the German serial number on bottom of the stock to match the Russian one on the side of the stock. Original capture screws and sight covers were not put back on. The Bolt's were electric penciled to the receiver too, I believe, thus the German numbers on the bolt will not match either.

That's just the nature of a Russian Capture.
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Old 01-27-2012, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead View Post
The Russian Captures that I have seen before have receiver numbers matching to the numbers the Russians stamped on the stock, not the numbers the Germans originally have on the stock.

Germans also numbered the handguard on the inside of it.

As I understand it, the Russians disassembled the rifles, hot dipped the barrel and action then reassembled the rifles without bothering to make sure the numbered parts were the same, so I would not expect the German serial number on bottom of the stock to match the Russian one on the side of the stock. Original capture screws and sight covers were not put back on. The Bolt's were electric penciled to the receiver too, I believe, thus the German numbers on the bolt will not match either.

That's just the nature of a Russian Capture.


Thanks man, I will be happy if there is Nazi eagle stamp on the stock of the one i ordered.

I think RCs are also pieces of history, as this reassembling was done right after WWII and not recently in US.

thanks
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Old 01-28-2012, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Did Century already sell out?
Classic Arms probably picked up the entire inventory and is now reselling it piecemeal.
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Old 01-28-2012, 8:01 AM
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Does all RCs come with Waffenamts stamped on the wood stocks or only some do?

thanks
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Old 01-28-2012, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandook View Post
Classic Arms probably picked up the entire inventory and is now reselling it piecemeal.
Century still has them listed on their site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
Does all RCs come with Waffenamts stamped on the wood stocks or only some do?

thanks
They all should have had markings when the Germans originally produced them, but whether or not these are still visible ~70 years later, after being used by the losing side of a war, then refurbished (at least once) some years later by the victors is really the question.

Some have simply worn off.
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Old 01-28-2012, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojocorsa View Post
German #s are underneath on the bottom, Russian numbers are on the left side, horizontally oriented.
up until 1942 the Germans put the serial number on the keel of the rifle. after that they put it in the barrel channel.
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Old 01-28-2012, 9:26 AM
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I was reading some where that Germans always carried spare parts with out serial numbers and a punch to add serial number on the parts to match the gun serial# when needed.

Is it possible that germans would have mismatched stocks also, when ever a gun required a new or replacement stock?

thanks
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