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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-17-2007, 6:21 PM
Mr.RoDiN Mr.RoDiN is offline
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Default Kel Tec FTF and double feed problems!

Hey guys. I know this has been discussed extensively, but I took my brand new Kel Tec SU 16 CA model out to shoot. This thing just didn't want to function. I was using my thermold mags, and the damn thing kept double feeding! Also if I didn't slam forwar the bolt, It wouldn't fire. What do you think it is? Can it be the extractor. I heard alot of people changing them out with AR extractors. Is it easy to do? Should I tell kel tec? I know they are very good with customer service. Also, the weird thing is, I had an ALPHA model. I don't know why I sold it! I shot about a 100 rounds through it with no problems! I dont know what it is. By the way, my buddy took his up too and he was having the same problem! He put in an Aluminum mag and had no problems, while I still did. Might have just been luck by his part.
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Old 03-17-2007, 6:23 PM
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def tell Kel-tec, give them a call and see what they have to say.
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Old 03-17-2007, 6:46 PM
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A long time ago, there were reports of A models not working with anything but good aluminum mags, steel and thermolds didnt work for s**t. Maybe thats your problem, did you try your friends aluminum mag? Did it work ok with the factory mags?
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2007, 7:06 PM
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I've heard it might have something to do with Parkerizing (sp)? on the bottom of the bolt carrier group...I guess it just needs to be buffed out with a dremel. I have the same problem with mine. I can't figure out how to get the damn thing broken down though to have a look.
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Old 03-17-2007, 7:15 PM
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Here is a pretty good tutorial on breaking it down. It's pretty easy, actually.

http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/keltecsu16b.html

Yes, and definitely only shoot good aluminum mags. I never had FTF, just FTE but after switching the extractor and using my bushmaster mags I never hd another problem. I can't see how the extractor can have anything to do with feeding issues, though.
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2007, 9:25 PM
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I just took my SU-16CA out today and had problems as well. I first took it out about 2 weeks ago and only used the 2 mags that come with it. I shot about 100 rounds through it and didn't have any problems at all. I took it out about, a week after- this time with a new Bushmaster 10 round mag. I shot the gun with the 2 factory mags, and the bushy mag. No problems at all. Today, a friend of mine let me use his 30 round issued mag (which has been through the "sandy playground"- it was pretty beat up!), and I had approx 2 stove pipes, and 3 double feeds malfunctions. When I switches back to the Bushy (i didn't use te factory mags), it worked fine. I'm assuming it was the 30 round Mag. I have a Bushy AR15 extrector, but I haven't installed it yet.
FYI, I been shooting American Eagle 50 grain Flat Base Hollow Point.

What do you guys think?

Quick question- would it make the SU16 illegal in CA if I was to put a forward grip on it (using the picatinny rail)?

-Rich
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  #7  
Old 03-17-2007, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rich9644 View Post
Quick question- would it make the SU16 illegal in CA if I was to put a forward grip on it (using the picatinny rail)?

-Rich
Yes, that would.

To answer the rest: The mags the SU16 comes with are crap. Burn them. Bushy 10s are great in a Kel Tec, though. If the 30 rounder was beat up, then it's probably seen better days. Time for a rebuild.
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2007, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
Yes, that would.

To answer the rest: The mags the SU16 comes with are crap. Burn them. Bushy 10s are great in a Kel Tec, though. If the 30 rounder was beat up, then it's probably seen better days. Time for a rebuild.
My mags are old, but in perfect condition. Yes, I did use my friends aluminum mag, but still had the same problem. I just don't understand. Does anyone out there know, that if I do change my extractor, that the problem will go away? The one thing I didn't try, are the 10 round factory mags. Yes I know they are crap, but regardless I wouldn't use them anyway. I didn't buy this rifle to shoot 10 rounds out of them. I bought this rifle to shoot my 30 round mags. If I wanted to buy new mags, I would have to buy 10 round bushys. Then I wouldn't even need my kel tec. I would just use my OLL. I wanted something for hi cap. I will def call kel tec, but I would just like to know if there is anyone out there, who has had the same problems and has changed the extractor, where the problems ceased to exist. Please let me know!
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2007, 7:45 AM
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what kind of ammo are you using? steel case or brass case? Steel case is hard & does not seal well in the barrel so all the debris gets blown into the chamber (fouling the action). Brass is soft enough so it expands to seal better.

I don't know how true this is but this has been discussed at length on Kel-Tec forum. Would love to hear from your side.
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2007, 8:04 AM
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This is a simple problem with the kel-tecs. Just about all of them have this problem at the beginning. Call Kel-Tec, they'll send you new parts, or you can buy an AR-15 extractor. I have a fulton in mine. Here's what you need to do:

1) get the old style charging handle from kel-tec
2) replace the extractor
3) smooth the bottom of the bolt carrier
4) break it down clean it and oil it up.

My gun definitely had a breaking in period. Now it functions flawlessly, even with cheap PCA spectrum ammo.

Try using the search function. This has been explained several times.
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  #11  
Old 03-18-2007, 8:09 AM
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My su16a model had extraction problems. I sent it back to keltec, they did something to the chamber and it worked fine for awhile then more double feeds. I then installed a stag extractor and things are great now. Every time I go shooting I clean the chamber with brake cleaner and a ar15 chamber brush beforehand. Then I run a boresnake through the barrel.That gets the chamber squeaky clean and has worked for me. Here's what the brush looks like. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=243631 Mark
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2007, 8:28 AM
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Default send it back

Request a copy of Kel-Tec's FFL certificate, box it up, go to UPS main shipping hub, declare it, ship it ground back to Kel-Tec. Fax them your shipping receipt and request refund. Then wait a month before getting it back.

I got mine back and took it out this last week. They replaced the extractor, polished the feed ramp, and did chamber work. Now it fires fine... but I've only put 150 rounds through it since getting it back.

I've got the CA model. No bolt carrier polishing was done, no bushmaster extractor replacement, no replacing the operating handle, etc... although I guess that work wouldn't hurt. I didn't want to do ANY work on something that should fire properly out of box. I think the problem for me was the feed ramp and something with the chamber. My problems were mostly FTF.

Do not fire steel cased ammo (Wolf).

http://www.ktog.org would be a good place to start since it is a Kel-Tec Owners group. The guys there have lots of suggestions. Personally I'd just send it back to Kel-Tec. No need to take any risks and mess something up doing the polishing. Definitely no need to spend more money for something that should work from the start.

BTW, my plastic mags work fine. I've heard the earlier mags had problems but they have since fixed it.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WokMaster1 View Post
what kind of ammo are you using? steel case or brass case? Steel case is hard & does not seal well in the barrel so all the debris gets blown into the chamber (fouling the action). Brass is soft enough so it expands to seal better.

I don't know how true this is but this has been discussed at length on Kel-Tec forum. Would love to hear from your side.
I use american eagles. I wouldn't steel through any of my rifles or handguns. I would only use steel on an AK or SKS. I own neither.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2007, 2:04 PM
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I've shot wolf, brown bear, and golden bear. No problems with that ammo.
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Old 03-18-2007, 2:09 PM
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get a AR15 extractor bushmaster or whatever will fix your problem.
the couple i've ownd did the same thing. AR extractor fixed it.
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Old 03-18-2007, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
My mags are old, but in perfect condition. Yes, I did use my friends aluminum mag, but still had the same problem. I just don't understand. Does anyone out there know, that if I do change my extractor, that the problem will go away? The one thing I didn't try, are the 10 round factory mags. Yes I know they are crap, but regardless I wouldn't use them anyway. I didn't buy this rifle to shoot 10 rounds out of them. I bought this rifle to shoot my 30 round mags. If I wanted to buy new mags, I would have to buy 10 round bushys. Then I wouldn't even need my kel tec. I would just use my OLL. I wanted something for hi cap. I will def call kel tec, but I would just like to know if there is anyone out there, who has had the same problems and has changed the extractor, where the problems ceased to exist. Please let me know!
I was answering Rick's question. Sorry.

Yours sounds like the extractor issue. I'd try that first.
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Old 03-18-2007, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by shark92651 View Post
Here is a pretty good tutorial on breaking it down. It's pretty easy, actually.

http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/keltecsu16b.html

Yes, and definitely only shoot good aluminum mags. I never had FTF, just FTE but after switching the extractor and using my bushmaster mags I never hd another problem. I can't see how the extractor can have anything to do with feeding issues, though.
I found this link earlier today and just finished field stripping and cleaning my "new" SU 16B. Took me 45 minutes, and with the bolt carrier assembly removed, the ease of extractor change became obvious.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2007, 6:05 PM
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So I called kel tec today. As usual, they were very polite and helpful. I wanted to buy an AR 15 extractor, but he told me he would ship a factory extractor with the oroginal (non plastic) charging handle. I asked him whats the point? I don't want the original extractor. This was the problem to begin with. He assured me the problem would be fixed, once I changed the extractor. What do you guys think? Am I setting myself for another fall? How can the problem go away by changing out one piece, for the same faulty piece? Should I just go ahead and order the ar 15 extractor? Oh I already polished the bottom of the bolt assembly group.
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Old 03-19-2007, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
So I called kel tec today. As usual, they were very polite and helpful. I wanted to buy an AR 15 extractor, but he told me he would ship a factory extractor with the oroginal (non plastic) charging handle. I asked him whats the point? I don't want the original extractor. This was the problem to begin with. He assured me the problem would be fixed, once I changed the extractor. What do you guys think? Am I setting myself for another fall? How can the problem go away by changing out one piece, for the same faulty piece? Should I just go ahead and order the ar 15 extractor? Oh I already polished the bottom of the bolt assembly group.
They updated their extractor design, they send out the new design. The new design is slightly more pointed (I have both). Its a standard AR-15 extractor, that's why any old AR extractor works. The charging handle will help also. Kel-Tec knows what they are talking about when they say that this will fix the problem. This is the standard fix for these rifles, and it works.

Try going to www.ktog.org That is the Kel-Tec forum. All the problems have been diagnosed and fixed there.
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Old 03-19-2007, 9:21 PM
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The Secret to the Kel Tec is they have to be lubed well. I had many problems with mine at first. Then I got a can of Super Lube Spray and Sprayed the sh** out of all the "moving parts" (action). I have not had a single malfunction since. It justs likes to be hot and wet...

It sucks ***** on the 100 for accuracy. I however have my 2 ar builds with a mm grip for that.
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Old 03-19-2007, 9:51 PM
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Thanks alot everybody! I am waiting fo rmy parts to arrive. If they arrive by Saturday, I will be heading out to Angeles on Sunday. I will be sure to give you guys a range report!
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Old 03-20-2007, 6:31 AM
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I took my A to the range yesterday, another 200 rounds with no problems. The night before I tried loading up the factory mags (hadnt used them for years) and they finally started spitting out rounds. I heard that kel-tec toughened up the bodies on the new ones so back to the factory they go for replacement.

Good luck on your next range trip.
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Old 03-25-2007, 8:43 PM
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I went to angeles today and Im still not happy. I knew my rifle was really off, so I wanted to adjust it. Now there are no markings on the sights, so I brought my instruction manual with me. I heard one of the range instructors telling the shooter next to me, about how I brought an instruction manual. The idiot was yelling with his ear protection on. He thought I didn't hear him, but when I turned around he was literally pointing and laughing at me. Anywho, after sighting in my rifle, I was pleased with the performance. It still wasn't a hundred percent though. I did have a few jams. I counted maybe 5 or 6. This is out of about 300 rounds or so. Should I just go ahead and buy the AR 15 extractor? Will I be a hundred percent with that? What do you guys think?
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Old 03-25-2007, 9:22 PM
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I have a kel-tec. I have few problems but I worked at it. You will only be happy once you build up a OLL. Then all things will be right again, and your life will be balanced.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:26 PM
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Odd. I've never lubed mine except for light lube on the trigger. Just clean the piston and gas every couple of hundred rounds. Never had this issue.

Isn't the extractor issue just related to failure to ejects? On Failure to Feeds - I would check the mags. I would try rebuilding the mag with a stronger spring and or follower - if you are getting double feeds and FTFs.

As others have said - the best feeding mag is the USGI aluminum mags or the Bushmaster 10/20 rounders.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:30 PM
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Odd. I've never lubed mine except for light lube on the trigger.

Isn't the extractor issue just related to failure to ejects? On Failure to Feeds - I would check the mags. I would try rebuilding the mag with a stronger spring and or follower - if you are getting double feeds and FTFs. Also check the way your holding the rifle when you shoot and see how that effects it (weak grip, strong grip, resting the rifle on the mag, etc.

As others have said - the best feeding mag is the USGI aluminum mags or the Bushmaster 10/20 rounders.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:34 PM
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Hehe! The bushmaster mags were what giving me the most trouble.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:06 PM
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I would change the follower and spring then. You been over to KTOG?
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Old 03-30-2007, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark92651 View Post
Here is a pretty good tutorial on breaking it down. It's pretty easy, actually.

http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/keltecsu16b.html

Yes, and definitely only shoot good aluminum mags. I never had FTF, just FTE but after switching the extractor and using my bushmaster mags I never hd another problem. I can't see how the extractor can have anything to do with feeding issues, though.
I have this plastic sliding thing on the right side of the bolt carrier, blocking the firing pin retaining pin. Is this plastic piece supposed to slide off?

I have the CA model....and this plastic piece isn't mentioned on that link.

ETA: I figured it out. Just had to bend it and slide it over the bolt...
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Last edited by SkyStorm82; 03-30-2007 at 2:10 PM..
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Old 03-30-2007, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyStorm82 View Post
I have this plastic sliding thing on the right side of the bolt carrier, blocking the firing pin retaining pin. Is this plastic piece supposed to slide off?

I have the CA model....and this plastic piece isn't mentioned on that link.

ETA: I figured it out. Just had to bend it and slide it over the bolt...
The plastic thing is just a dust cover. My alpha model never came with one.
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