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  #1  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:12 PM
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Default Pistol=>Carbine Conversion kits...

I see these pop up all the time, hell even on amazon.com [!], but besides CA legality and a tax stamp, are they worth it?

My favorite so far are the multi-platform EMA RONI series


http://store.commandarms.com/categor...l%252dCarbine/

They offer them in all the major pistols, including Glock, Springfield, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson [the list goes on]...

Infact there is a slightly cheaper kit that DOES NOT require a BATF stamp and IS CA LEGAL!! Sadly, its a few hundo to make your Glock heavier... There are advantages of course


http://store.commandarms.com/products/RONIRB92.html


Here is one I spied on amazon.com a while back


http://www.amazon.com/Mako-Glock-Car...9&sr=8-2-fkmr1

A lot more money for, in my opinion, a lot less function...


Any other kits out there? I split my time between CA and GA so I can own one and I very much hate the M9 the Army gave me. Simple pleading with my boss and Im sure I can carry this into the field.......


(I am aware of the Irony that in all of the websites Beretta pics there is a Glock logo on the grip....)
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:26 PM
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Won't fly here in Kalifornistan. Too bad.

I saw these for sale in Thailand last May at several gun stores in Bangkok.

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Old 01-14-2012, 1:29 PM
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Coming soon is the [potentially...] CA Legal version, with a 16" barrel...

http://store.commandarms.com/products/RONICG1.html
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:30 PM
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(now to just figure out if it will work with a .22lr Glock clone so you dont need a bullet button...)
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Old 01-14-2012, 1:32 PM
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^^^

However once you do this, you can never go back to just a glock pistol correct?
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Old 01-14-2012, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
(now to just figure out if it will work with a .22lr Glock clone so you dont need a bullet button...)
Mag in PG, no forward grip, thought no BB needed.
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Old 01-14-2012, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed_Hazard View Post
^^^

However once you do this, you can never go back to just a glock pistol correct?
yup
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed_Hazard View Post
^^^

However once you do this, you can never go back to just a glock pistol correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
yup
ATF recently made a ruling that it was "ok" to go from pistol to rifle back to pistol, but still not clear on the stupid cali laws about it
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Old 01-14-2012, 1:46 PM
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very popular toy in the philippines.
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:48 PM
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ATF recently made a ruling that it was "ok" to go from pistol to rifle back to pistol, but still not clear on the stupid cali laws about it
Happen to have a link? First I herd of that.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Hazard View Post
Mag in PG, no forward grip, thought no BB needed.
I'm not 100% on the laws. I have seen the MPA mac10 carbine labeled as CA legal....
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
Happen to have a link? First I herd of that.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
'Kwikrnu' , if I recall correctly, is the dude named Embody in TN that was popped for aggressively OCing an AK pistol with an orange-colored muzzle tip.

It's kinda hard to tell because 'kwikrnu' posts under other userIDs in other forums and then seems to get into arguments with himself under his multiple IDs.

Now, as some of you know, CGF has involved itself in the Embody matter (Embody v.Ward), filing an amicus brief in the US 6th, and noting Embody's (dangerous, idiotic, trolling) behavior being separate from actual RKBA rights. We needed to stop some bad law coming from this idiot. So that's the reason for the initial titling on the video....

CGF brief:

http://hoffmang.com/firearms/embody/...2011-12-05.pdf


All that being said, however, the content video [OUTSIDE OF CALIFORNIA] is generally correct ON A FEDERAL BASIS (though not necessarily in CA or in other states that have their own SBR definitions).

BATF has recently stated that pistol -> rifle -> pistol conversions are legal on a Federal basis (One should follow proper sequency of assembly to avoid an illegal mix'n'match transitional situation, however.) He correctly also warns not to start from a rifle.

HOWEVER, in CALIFORNIA, we have a separate body of SBR law which, although largely duplicative of Fed SBR law, is relatively untested in CA courts, we don't have a long history of agency opinions, etc. Given the looseness of CA SBR law and its expression of constructive possession, etc. there is a nonzero risk that things could go sideways even up thru appellate chain.

A certain Mr. Rooney already knows this, as the Rooney case (California) demonstrated that full compliance in following BATF standards for overall length of rifles with folding stocks nevertheless was regarded as in violation of CA SBR laws.
from this thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...67#post7754067

about a vid that has been removed from calguns due to the video owner being a jerk to calguns
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Last edited by Jeepers; 01-14-2012 at 2:03 PM..
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2012, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
I'm not 100% on the laws. I have seen the MPA mac10 carbine labeled as CA legal....
Yeah but the MPA carbine cannot be stripped down to MPA pistol, Since it has a Buttstock from factory it cannot be a pistol, unlike the Glock which started out as a pistol.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2012, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed_Hazard View Post
Yeah but the MPA carbine cannot be stripped down to MPA pistol, Since it has a Buttstock from factory it cannot be a pistol, unlike the Glock which started out as a pistol.
^^ Shows what i know

so what we need to find is an example of a CA legal carbine from a pistol that has the mag in the grip. Kel-Tec Sub series? I havent even read the description but the book's cover reads like its a prime example of a carbine with the mag in the grip...
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
from this thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...67#post7754067

about a vid that has been removed from calguns due to the video owner being a jerk to calguns
Glanced over that, didnt see anything referring to pistol>rifle>pistol conversions. I could have missed it though.
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zfields View Post
Glanced over that, didnt see anything referring to pistol>rifle>pistol conversions. I could have missed it though.
post 11 by Bill, the video was on going pistol to rifle back to pistol
Quote:
snip

BATF has recently stated that pistol -> rifle -> pistol conversions are legal on a Federal basis (One should follow proper sequency of assembly to avoid an illegal mix'n'match transitional situation, however.) He correctly also warns not to start from a rifle.

snip
there is also anoughter thread on here about it if you search , i just had that one handy due to it was mine ...lol
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:19 PM
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I'm looking for batfe letter. No offence but I go by that of it can one me in club fed.

I'll look more when u get home.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2012, 2:41 PM
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Well I downloaded the PDF for getting a stamp for the SBR. I dont know why people complain about it being hard to read/understand.....
Only questionable part is if I wish to claim it as a device for military duty to avoid payin $200.... I doubt that would fly but its always worth a shot
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:47 PM
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http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2011-4.pdf

This pretty clearly covers attachment-style conversions (such as those above) on the Federal level.

The problem is California law and the DOJ's unwillingness to give a written opinion on anything (IE: Bullet Button) prior to a case being brought to trial.
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zfields View Post
I'm looking for batfe letter. No offence but I go by that of it can one me in club fed.

I'll look more when u get home.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
here you go ....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=462169

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2011-4.pdf
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
Well I downloaded the PDF for getting a stamp for the SBR. I dont know why people complain about it being hard to read/understand.....
Only questionable part is if I wish to claim it as a device for military duty to avoid payin $200.... I doubt that would fly but its always worth a shot
You can't get the SBR stamp in California.

In addition to the SBR stamp, you also need a California Dangerous Weapons Permit.
You will not get one.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
You can't get the SBR stamp in California.

In addition to the SBR stamp, you also need a California Dangerous Weapons Permit.
You will not get one.
As stated above I split my time between CA and GA, so obviously I would purchase everything in/for Georgia...

If I wanted to bring it to Cali, simple! Remove the foregrip and the stock (or the pistol entirely)
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Old 01-14-2012, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
If I wanted to bring it to Cali, simple! Remove the foregrip and the stock (or the pistol entirely)
You could bring the unmodified pistol in, but I would be worried about constructive possession issues even having the conversion kit in California.

Not unlike the issues with the Slide-Fire (bumpfiring) buttstock... it's a multiburst trigger actuator in California and creates a machine gun CP situation.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-14-2012, 6:05 PM
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very popular toy in the philippines.
short and sexy, guys....


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  #25  
Old 01-14-2012, 8:09 PM
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Well I did the impossible, got approval to "augment but not modify" my service M9!

So now time to fill out the BATF form. Remember Im in Georgia currently.
So fill this out and send it to the seller or give it to my FFL?

Im so excited!! Time to kill some green plastic men
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Old 01-15-2012, 6:33 AM
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Ok did a little googling and got some interesting answers. I might make a new thread asking this specific question, but:

(2 part question)
1- is "any other weapon" that is legally federally registered allowed in CA?
2- if I register it as an SBR can I remove the buttstock but leave on the foregrip creating "any other weapon" or does that require a new batf stamp?


Now to answer #1:
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/casl.pdf

" ...or “any other weapon” as defined by federal law possessed
by a person who is otherwise permitted to possess it under
federal law and not prohibited from "
A few pages down stating what is NOT allowed, then giving these as exceptions...

Question 2 is the tricky one....
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Old 01-15-2012, 6:48 AM
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sorry I misread a little....

"The following are some of the exceptions: possession
of short-barreled shotguns and rifles when authorized by
the Department of Justice and not in violation of federal
law........or “any other weapon” as defined by federal law possessed
by a person who is otherwise permitted to possess it under
federal law and not prohibited from possessing firearms
and ammunition under California law."

This leads me to think that my SBR would be CA legal
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Old 01-15-2012, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
(2 part question)
1- is "any other weapon" that is legally federally registered allowed in CA?
2- if I register it as an SBR can I remove the buttstock but leave on the foregrip creating "any other weapon" or does that require a new batf stamp?
1. Yes. BATFE approved AOWs are legal in CA. (except for pen guns)

2. No. It is registered as a SBR, it is considered a SBR even if it is configured to be an AOW.
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Old 01-15-2012, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
1. Yes. BATFE approved AOWs are legal in CA. (except for pen guns)

2. No. It is registered as a SBR, it is considered a SBR even if it is configured to be an AOW.
Perfect answer I just wish I had asked if SBR was CA legal before you answered

Thank you very much!
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Old 01-15-2012, 7:34 AM
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You can buy this. You just can't install it...
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Old 01-15-2012, 8:14 AM
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Thanks
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
Perfect answer I just wish I had asked if SBR was CA legal before you answered

Thank you very much!
As I mentioned above, technically, SBR is legal in California, but you need a Dangerous Weapons Permit to have one.
DOJ will not issue a Dangerous Weapons Permit.

AOW can be had, but you need an NFA trust and it would not be transferrable.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by h0use View Post
You can buy this. You just can't install it...
I don't even believe it is legal to possess in California or without the NFA stamp.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:06 AM
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2. No. It is registered as a SBR, it is considered a SBR even if it is configured to be an AOW.
Hmm.....

Once a rifle, always a rifle.
Once Registered as an SBR, always an SBR
Once Registered as an AOW, always an AOW

We can import a Judge with a VFG, register it into our trust as an AOW, and then remove the VFG and it retains it's AOW status.

Could we not also install a shoulderstock and retain the AOW status, or would that be considered manufacture of a new SBR?
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:07 AM
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I don't even believe it is legal to possess in California or without the NFA stamp.
why not ? they also make a "air soft" version of both the roni and glock

just to clarify , is there " constructive possession " for SBR in Ca ?
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:14 AM
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just to clarify , is there " constructive possession " for SBR in Ca ?
There is "constructive possession" of any NFA item in 50 states, DC, and possessions.

Silencers, SBR, SBS, AOW....

If you own a railed handgun and you don't own a rifle, it is illegal for you to be in possession of a VFG.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:09 AM
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Anybody else notice that the pictures of the various models in the OP are... off?

The one that says GLOCK in huge print has 2 guns, a Glock and a Sig.... and the Beretta 92 version has a Glock in it.

I would love for these to be free and clear of legal issues in CA.
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1911's instill fairy dust in the bullets, making them more deadly.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2012, 11:40 AM
Zippiot Zippiot is offline
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Originally Posted by Munk View Post
Anybody else notice that the pictures of the various models in the OP are... off?

The one that says GLOCK in huge print has 2 guns, a Glock and a Sig.... and the Beretta 92 version has a Glock in it.

I would love for these to be free and clear of legal issues in CA.
Yeah at the bottom of my OP i stated that it shows the Glock, looking thru a lot of them on the website its all manners of pistols but usually Glocks
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quiet Quiet is offline
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Hmm.....

Once a rifle, always a rifle.
Once Registered as an SBR, always an SBR
Once Registered as an AOW, always an AOW

We can import a Judge with a VFG, register it into our trust as an AOW, and then remove the VFG and it retains it's AOW status.

Could we not also install a shoulderstock and retain the AOW status, or would that be considered manufacture of a new SBR?
Because certain Title 2 firearms trump other Title 2 firearms. (MG > SBR/SBS > AOW)

AOW + shoulder stock = SBR/SBS. Need $200 tax stamp to legally install the shoulder stock and it is now considered a SBR/SBS & no longer an AOW.

A MG can be configured as a SBR/SBS/AOW, but it won't lose it's MG status.
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  #40  
Old 01-15-2012, 1:08 PM
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Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
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Because certain Title 2 firearms trump other Title 2 firearms. (MG > SBR/SBS > AOW)

AOW + shoulder stock = SBR/SBS. Need $200 tax stamp to legally install the shoulder stock and it is now considered a SBR/SBS & no longer an AOW.

A MG can be configured as a SBR/SBS/AOW, but it won't lose it's MG status.
That's what I thought... good to see it in print.
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