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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 01-07-2012, 7:48 PM
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Default (800 yard confirmed and witnessed .17 hmr shot!!!) spencerk's Mossberg 817 Review

Mossberg 817 Review – First Impressions
OK so I decided to do two range visits before posting my review (which is why im posting so late) , because of the fact that the mossberg performed better than expected after I sighted in the simmons 3-9x32mm .22mag scope. First shot hit corner left on the target and by sheer luck It was hitting almost DEAD center on the crosshairs. One more adjustment of 1 moa and I started my first grouping. Five shots at a tiny little target with wind and put four of them in about a half inch to .75. I should have measured them yesterday. I will edit and update this when I find my digital micrometer. I hate rulers lol.
I keep all of my groupings in a range book so I can actually keep the physical groups and watch the progression of me/my firearms as I modify them in gunsmithing school. I will not lose any of these groupings.
Today just flat out amazed me… I was aiming at the halfway points between the orange dot and the first line on the 2 grouping above and below it and one to the right of the orange aiming at dead center of the orange. This rifle isnt even broken in and it shoots like its nobody’s buisness. Shown below are all of my groupings from today plus the targets I used. I peeled of the second layer of shoot n c target so you could see all the destruction I did today. Lol. Im cheap and poor (saving for gunsmithing school) so I always just layer and then peel my targets. Works like a charm with that crazy coating it has on it. One other thing to notice in these pictures is the picture of the full target. I wanted to see if I could hit the 7 black dots with 10 rounds at 100 yards, and that’s exactly what it took me. Then my last 5 rounds went to a grouping near one of the dots so you can discount that one if you really want to. Here are the pix, they kinda speak for themselves:
(ballpoint pen points to places where I aimed, lighter is shown for size until I get ahold of my micrometer)
Range visit #1

(only real grouping I shot. Target was pretty much destroyed after)
Visit #2





Overall I think out of the box its an amazing shooter, especially when paired with the right scope rings and scope. The mounts on the rifle have paint on them and are oversized so I will do a tutorial on what parts to file down that wont hurt the integrity of the mount. took me a while to figur out why my rings werent sitting right when fastened to the mount. they were offset. Really annoying to me. After some tinkering I got it sitting correctly even with the paint on the mounts, but it think it would have been much easier to file the mounts.

Out of the Box Fit & Finish
After everybody saying it feels like a toy and and the stock flexes when you pull the trigger I was worried that’s what was going to happen when I shot the rifle. NONE of this is the case with this one, yet… The trigger pull is lighter than on my remington 700 which stunned me. The crown even looks like it was done fairly well compared to other ones ive seen online. It weighs about 5.5 lbs with the scope and a full magazine so it’s a light gun. I get where the toyish feel idea comes from but its not so if you really FEEL the rifle and how secure it is. It’s a 2 lug bolt, which to me is an improvement over the other .17 hmr models in the $200-350 range. Some people don’t like the stock, I love it. I can use many different styles of gripping the rifle to get the right kind of shot I need. For accuracy I gripped all the way down on the handgrip so my index finger was perftectly grasping it on the tip. It really helped me get a feel for what could be altered and whatnot.

Final thoughts…

For$ 209 out the door I truly believe there is no better .17 hmr for the money (maybe the handi rile, but some people prefer bolts over single shot). It quickly became the rifle I have used most, going through 150 rounds in 2 days. SO FUN. I have found nothing wrong with the rifle so far and it has taken both winchester and remington ammo without any problems, jams, misfeeds, or even a single dud round. All and all I would recommend this rifle to anyone who wants a .17 hmr and is looking for one on the cheap. Best quality rile I have ever sen for the price

One thing I forgot to mention was magazine position and chamber position. Look at the savages and marlins. Their magazines are further forward, thus increacing the overall length. This makes the mossberg feel much more balanced in my hands, especially with a scope, than any other rimfire rifle i have held. I do have the scope mounted as far back as i can and its just right for shooting standing, sitting, or prone.

This rifle has much more potential than people think. Just make sure you clean it enough or else a bore snake might not be able to fit through. It likes being fouled like most. I cant wait to try the winchester jhp's i ordered. I wanna see what they do to different objects sooo bad. This feels like the ultimate destructive plinking/varmint rifle (at least for me) and is now going with me on every range outing, hunt, or even just a forrest plinking trip.

I will update this every time I go to the range. Which is going to be a TON. I am going to shoot the crap out of this barrel until I go to gunsmithing school and replace it with a fluted bull barrel and new custom made stock. But that’s not til sometime around August :P so until then, I will torture test it for all of you here on the forum so we can finally get a true idea of how well this Rifle will stand the test of time…

Btw the long term project name is Project: BackOUT Im going to throw this rifle in my bug out bag after gunsmithing school. I am probably going to be painting the rifle soon. Probably OD green. (just the stock and the scope)

Until next time….
spencerk

Last edited by spencerk; 02-22-2012 at 11:15 AM.. Reason: updated review
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Old 01-07-2012, 8:17 PM
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Last edited by spencerk; 01-07-2012 at 9:08 PM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:24 AM
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just Added some info about the mossberg 817 that you wont find anywhere else. read the review and make your own deductions. i think think this little bit of info might change peoples minds on this rile
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Old 01-09-2012, 5:17 PM
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the first time you shoot in over 100deg weather you will know why the toy stock coments. the stock is my only real complaint. my friend is still thinking of filling his stock to stiffin it up. one of my sons is thinking about getting one for himself, and adding a laminated T hole. DR
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Old 01-09-2012, 6:22 PM
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There are no accessory stocks made for it at this time. You meed to have one custom made. while i am at gunsmithing school i will be making a custom stock for it and if the process isnt too hard, i will happily start selling them in group buys/custom order. but that wont be until this fall/winter.
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Old 01-10-2012, 6:33 AM
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I own one and it has alot of trouble feeding hollow points. How about yours?
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:13 PM
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It is not reccommended that you feed it hollow points. Best choices are fmj's, xtp's, jhp's and ballistic tipped ammo. The ramp is designed to fit full lengtg roynds and not regular hollow poinrs. Jhp's are much more accurrate andbetter performing IMHO
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Old 01-10-2012, 2:22 PM
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Ya I know but I had a ton of HPs someone gave me so I am trying to burn them up
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Old 01-10-2012, 5:43 PM
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Load em in one at a time and theg should work fine
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Old 01-11-2012, 5:12 AM
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Thats what I have been doing.
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Old 01-11-2012, 4:00 PM
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Just finished another day at the range. Ill be posting my groups up when im home
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Old 01-11-2012, 8:30 PM
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Id think something like this should fit easily. the round reciver would be router fit and the trigger guard would have to be milled or hand fit. the rest would be done on a drill press.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BLASTE...-p/403-227.htm

or this. altho Id want to shorten it a little.http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/ROSS-U...403-048-ft.htm

DR
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:37 PM
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Here are some groupings from my range session earlier today:







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Old 01-11-2012, 11:37 PM
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and my favorite grouping of the day:



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Old 01-12-2012, 7:59 AM
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Groups are measured from center to center so you need to subtract .17 from your measurements. At what distance were the groups shot? Are you shooting 4 or 5 shot groups?

For a little competition join us in this match: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=january

Lots of fun and can improve your skills.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:04 AM
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Thanks! The groupins were at 100 yards and they are mostly 5 shot
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Old 01-15-2012, 7:23 PM
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200 YARD UPDATE:

ok so heres a TRUE test of accurracy for the .17 HMR. anybody who was at USI in Concord, CA today will know that it was an EXTREMELY windy day with gusts possibly over 20mph (but definaty up to) and a consistant crosswind of at lest 5-10 most of the day. People could barely hold onto their targets, and it was enough to throw most people wayyy off (wind shaking the actual rifles more than screwing with the trajectories of the larger centerfires), but not me and i got the groupings to prove it. it took a box of 50 rounds (of hornaday 20 gr XTP's just to adjust the scope out to 200 yards and to adjust for the wind (done by shooting at clays lying on the ground just past 200 until i was hitting the ground next to the clays). here is my zero target i used to make the final adjustments to my scope before feeling comfortable enough for a real group:

[img width=640 height=479]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w163/kingfisherkohl/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3734.jpg[/img]

Then the next one at 200 yards in the same horrible wind:

[img width=640 height=480]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w163/kingfisherkohl/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0071.jpg[/img]

oh did my mossberg suprize you there? i know it blew my mind in this wind. if used correctly, i believe .17 HMR's are much better cartriges than are making them out to be. they flat out astonished me today. with a half hour of scope adjustments, i was able to get damn near minute of squirrel at 200 yards. same simmons .22 Mag scope btw. (I NEED a better scope with more magnification, 9x just isnt enough after about 200 yards because of my tremors).

and if you minus a flyer:

[img width=640 height=480]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w163/kingfisherkohl/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3717.jpg[/img]

and heres a 100 yard grouping I did:

[img width=360 height=480]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w163/kingfisherkohl/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3459.jpg[/img]

[img width=640 height=480]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w163/kingfisherkohl/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8603.jpg[/img]

Honestly i believe peole just need to try harder with their scopes when it comes to shooting in the wind. It seems to me all these newer paper puncher people compaining about not being able to shoot in any sort of wind with this rifle never had a GOOD scope/rings combo and they never talked about adjusting the scope. try harder. the .17 HMR will go where you want it to as long as you can guide it there. btw. updrafts seem to have more of an affect on my .17hmr than crosswind so i think people should watch out for that. i shoot at a range in a protected valley and the wind comes down and swoops UP the side of the hills and only as you get closer to the side. you have to adjust your scope based on where the bullet STARTS to rise rather than adjusting for actual height. it makes a 1/4" adjustment turn into 1/2" or 3/4" on days like today. really turns into a crap shoot if the winds decide to change direction.
my point being i think the .17 hmr is a much more capable round than its said to be. my $209 Mossberg 817 is proving that little by little... i wonder what some of the 500-$1k .17's would be like... especially with a bull barrel....
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerk View Post
200 YARD UPDATE:

ok so heres a TRUE test of accurracy for the .17 HMR. anybody who was at USI in Concord, CA today will know that it was an EXTREMELY windy day with gusts possibly over 20mph (but definaty up to) and a consistant crosswind of at lest 5-10 most of the day. People could barely hold onto their targets, and it was enough to throw most people wayyy off (wind shaking the actual rifles more than screwing with the trajectories of the larger centerfires), but not me and i got the groupings to prove it. it took a box of 50 rounds (of hornaday 20 gr XTP's just to adjust the scope out to 200 yards and to adjust for the wind (done by shooting at clays lying on the ground just past 200 until i was hitting the ground next to the clays). here is my zero target i used to make the final adjustments to my scope before feeling comfortable enough for a real group:



Then the next one at 200 yards in the same horrible wind:



oh did my mossberg suprize you there? i know it blew my mind in this wind. if used correctly, i believe .17 HMR's are much better cartriges than are making them out to be. they flat out astonished me today. with a half hour of scope adjustments, i was able to get damn near minute of squirrel at 200 yards. same simmons .22 Mag scope btw. (I NEED a better scope with more magnification, 9x just isnt enough after about 200 yards because of my tremors).

and if you minus a flyer:



and heres a 100 yard grouping I did:





Honestly i believe peole just need to try harder with their scopes when it comes to shooting in the wind. It seems to me all these newer paper puncher people compaining about not being able to shoot in any sort of wind with this rifle never had a GOOD scope/rings combo and they never talked about adjusting the scope. try harder. the .17 HMR will go where you want it to as long as you can guide it there. btw. updrafts seem to have more of an affect on my .17hmr than crosswind so i think people should watch out for that. i shoot at a range in a protected valley and the wind comes down and swoops UP the side of the hills and only as you get closer to the side. you have to adjust your scope based on where the bullet STARTS to rise rather than adjusting for actual height. it makes a 1/4" adjustment turn into 1/2" or 3/4" on days like today. really turns into a crap shoot if the winds decide to change direction.
my point being i think the .17 hmr is a much more capable round than its said to be. my $209 Mossberg 817 is proving that little by little... i wonder what some of the 500-$1k .17's would be like... especially with a bull barrel....
The forum software doesn't like your [img] tags I think.
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:46 PM
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it auto adjusted them in a day or two last time. i think the photobucket server just needs to refresh or some crap. it has always happened to the photos i edit on photobucket (only had to rotate it).
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Old 01-15-2012, 9:49 PM
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Btw did anybody notice the pattern i had in my grouings? they all produced triangles (well almost all). weird. tripped me out when i noticed. must be my tremors or the barrel harmonics or something.
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Old 01-17-2012, 9:00 AM
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i just did a small trigger job on my 817 yesterday and was impressed as to how much it helped. I you take the trigger group apart you can polish the internals, its only 2 roll pins to get it all apart. When i took mine apart the mating surfaces of the trigger and sear were super rough, i mean like someone took a die grinder and did one pass. i used some very fine emery cloth and buffed out the scratches, but tried to not remove any more metal than needed, and without changing any angles on parts. Then i took some metal polish and got it all silky smooth. Followed up with a dab of grease and i couldn't believe the difference. It feels 2 pounds lighter and is much less gritty and more crisp breaking. Plus it only took a half hour taking my time.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:59 AM
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damn. im going to need to get a polishing wheel for my dremel. just ran out. lol. i just did some more modifications to the mag to see if i could get it to fit better and now it clicks right into place like it means buisness. even comes out a tad easier too.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:01 AM
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yeah i noticed the slop in the mag effects feeding sometimes. i need to work on that next.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:20 AM
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i actually havnt had ANY Feeding problems. the only thing remotly close to that was a pierced rim because of the firing pin and that has nothing to do with feeding lol. so far it has fe everything i have given it. i plan on attempting to make a couple different magazines for it at gunsmithing school. mainly a 10. lol. i was thinking about trying to do something like a 1 piece housing for the magazine and making it fit perfectly to my rifle.

I do have to say, i love the mossberg 817. Damn near minute of squirrel at 200 yards...
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:27 AM
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yeah every couple rounds with the cci jhp's the bullet will collide with the feed ramp and not push past it. If i bump the mag with my palm it will then feed fine. i just need to do some work to get the mag to lock in as high as it can. But at 50 yards yesterday i was shooting quarters off hand with no rests. today im gonna sprawl out and rest on bags to see what it will do at 100.
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Old 01-17-2012, 4:16 PM
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Nice shooting!

I have always taken the "wind blows a .17 a mile off" advice with a grain of salt. The first .17 I bought, I got from my friends uncle in Colorado. We were shooting at Rampart Range in the hills above Colorado Springs, it was 100yds with a steady 10-15mph crosswind. We were using golfballs as targets, and nailing them 9 out of 10 times. When he mentioned he wanted to sell it, I jumped.

I then took it back to Wyoming with me, I used it for 2 years there. If you've never been there, Wyoming is always windy. It still was more than accurate enough for prairie dogs, even out to 250yds.

That's just my experience with the .17, yours may vary.
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Old 01-17-2012, 6:51 PM
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so far mine has done great with the wind and keeps proving the "anything over 5 mph and you cant hit sh*t" stereotype wrong, again and again. the .17's have quickly become my favorite caliber. learn how to use them correctly and you have a winner. btw here are som pix of the new cantivellar mounts i bought at big 5 today for 30 bucks out the door:








What do you guys think? I LOVE my rifles new look and its much more comfortable to look through the scope standing/sitting/prone than it used to be before. may look a little bulky, but the mounts are sturdy as hell.
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Old 01-18-2012, 7:03 PM
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I dont know about prone but standing or sitting those look like an improvement! only thing is now you will have to be especialy carefull about canting the rifle. congrats on the find. DR
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Old 01-18-2012, 7:36 PM
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Thanks! I really love these mounts. people at the range kept asking me why i had a mount that was almost the same price as my scope and i replied: look at my target. Now all i need is a Bipod... How do those barrel mount ones work? ive always been dubious about those and too worried about bending the barrel and barrel harmonics
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Old 01-20-2012, 5:54 PM
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I was always told that nothing should touch the barrel, it will thro off the shot but Im finding that sometimes it doesnt hurt. I shoot a single shot match where most of the guys rest the barrels on the front bag. they are accuracy obssesed, and it works for them. try resting your barrel on a sandbag just to see. then try moving the rest point to see if theres a sweet spot. worst that will happen is you will waste some time and ammo! Have fun DR
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Old 01-20-2012, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
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I was always told that nothing should touch the barrel, it will thro off the shot but Im finding that sometimes it doesnt hurt. I shoot a single shot match where most of the guys rest the barrels on the front bag. they are accuracy obssesed, and it works for them. try resting your barrel on a sandbag just to see. then try moving the rest point to see if theres a sweet spot. worst that will happen is you will waste some time and ammo! Have fun DR
GREAT idea. ill try that out on the range with blocks and sandbags because i have a feeling a barrel mounted bipod might not be as forgiving. Thanks for the idea!
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:08 AM
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I just saw this on another site, They are available from Mossberg.

http://www.mossberg.com/press/pdf/50.pdf
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
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I just saw this on another site, They are available from Mossberg.

http://www.mossberg.com/press/pdf/50.pdf
the link wont open on my computer. what is it? lol
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerk View Post
the link wont open on my computer. what is it? lol


partial copy from the page

702/802/817 THUMBHOLE STOCK WITH TIPDOWN FOREND…
GREAT ERGONOMICS AT A GREAT PRICE



North Haven, CT (January, 2008) – Mossberg International puts the “Fun” back in
“Functional” with their newly released Thumbhole Stock with Tipdown Series of rimfire rifles.

Expanding its popular line of rimfire rifles, the Thumbhole/Tipdown stock is sure to be a “must have” for the aspiring shooter. Offered in .22 LR autoloading (702 Plinkster), .22
LR bolt-action (802 Plinkster) and .17 HMR (817) models, the Thumbhole/Tipdown
rimfire rifle is the perfect go anywhere kind of gun, with the built-in features normally
found on rifles that cost far more. The stock provides a vertical, pistol-like grip for both
hands, which anatomically and ergonomically offers the most natural positions for the
human hand to assume when holding a rifle to the shoulder. This results in a more
natural positioning of the hands and a comfort level more conducive to accurate
shooting, be it from the prone, kneeling, sitting or off-hand positions. Whether your idea
of fun is serious marksmanship practice, chasing small game or just plinking around, the
Plinkster™ Thumbhole/Tipdown model fits the bill.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerk View Post
the link wont open on my computer. what is it? lol
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:03 PM
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You are going to lose some elevation adjustment by mounting a scope that high. Standard is 1.5" from the bore to the center of the scope. Ok if you don't mind.
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Old 01-22-2012, 8:02 PM
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I have tremors and if i get too hard of a cheekweld, my head shakes and throws my shot off and makes it harder to aim. raising the scope prevents me from putting too much pressure on my cheek and keeps me more stable. i would never reccommend my setup to someone else because i feel it would be hard for them to shoot the way i do. it took me a while to get used to it.
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Old 01-22-2012, 8:19 PM
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A little Range update:

So it was a rainy day here in the San Francisco Bay Area, CA USA, and there was nothing else to do so I decided to go to the range and play with my toys and get some groupings of what the .17 can do in a mix of bad weather; 15+ mph winds with really inconsistant rain. Amazingly, i got my best 100 yard groupings to date (with my Mossberg) in these conditions. All groups were at 100 yards and shot consecutivly. The ones with stickers were messed up by yours truly and i waited til the cease fire to start shooting again so i could put up those stickers. after it was all good. only the upper 3 targets are from the Mossberg 817. the lower two are from my .243 win remington 700 so if your looking for info on the 817, dont pay attention to those lower two targets.

Full target:



A few practice groupings:







And the rest from largest to smallest (based on amount of consecutive shots taken):

[Upper Left]
(5 shot grouping + one flyer below = 6 total)



(center - 5 shots)
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Last edited by spencerk; 01-22-2012 at 8:26 PM..
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Old 01-22-2012, 8:26 PM
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[Far right of center target]
{3 shot grouping}



(and heres my best 100 yard consecutive 10 shot group to date {because of weather})



So as all of you can see im consistantly showing that even with bad wind and rain, yhe .17 hmr is still a very capable round. many people would think because something is small and light, it will get blown around by the wind. the thing is, its still a dense piece of lead and copper being blasted out of the end of your barrel at over 2550 fps, and i believe that because of the smaller surface area, crosswinds will affect elevation less than normal because the bullet is essentially piercing the air rather than pushing it aside, less surface area=less area for the wind to get caught on. so once your zeroed in, it shouldnt be overly hard to keep a tight group, at least within 100 yards. and the .17 is SENSITIVE to wind, NOT Inaccurrate... mind you my groupings are with the bullet hitting the rain too so you gta throw in that extra variable too...

I cant wait to get back out to the range on a calm day to see how i do.
lemme know what you think!

Til next time,
spencerk
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Old 01-29-2012, 3:07 PM
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ok so i just finished entering my data/groupings into my range book. since i have shown you plenty of single pix of groups ill just show you my range book itsself, that is the few pages that i allow people to see. the rest are my designs/ideas i have not heard of yet and plan to keep that way until I put them to the market :P

anywho here are the groupings i promised. i cant find my friend's damn groupings now so ill have to look for that:








Let me know what you think!

btw this one speaks for itsself:


.17 hmr ammo cases work well for storing gun parts i have noticed and you can fit 7 of them stacked on their sides by 3 across in a .50 bmg ammo can. everything about the .17 seems so perfect lol.

The 1000 round mark came much quicker than i expected. lol. i have spent more money on ammo in less than a month (picked the 817 up january sixth if y'all recall) than the rifle itsself cost. it has only gotten more and more accurrate and is an absolute tack driver.

it hasnt been a month and ive gotten 6 people to buy one of these. lol. i am totally in love with it and it has quickly become my favorite firearm that i own. I cant wait o take it to the woods for some hunting/hardcore plinking.

Now for the important question

Would i reccommend this rifle in general?
Heck yes i would. it may not be as good along the lines of fit and finsh of some of the hgher end models, but out of all of the entry level .17 hmr's, its definatly one of the best. especially for $209 out the door. i would have paid $300 if it was asked. I cant wait to polish the trigger mech and get the bolt jeweled...

I love my Mossberg 817...

til nex time....
spencerk
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