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  #1  
Old 01-06-2012, 8:15 PM
adrenalinejunkie adrenalinejunkie is offline
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Default HK USP .45 vs Sig P220- reliability and for CCW

I'm thinking about my next gun, which I want to be a .45 semi. I like the full size 10 round mag, so I don't think I want a compact. I was pretty much set on the USP until I started thinking about the P220 and the Glock. I don't question the Glock's reliability, but the lack of tangible safety/decocker and hammer is a bit worrisome to me. Can anyone comment on the reliability of a P220 in .45? It seems slimmer than the USP- has anyone tried to conceal one? I know a full size isn't ideal for concealment purposes, so can anyone suggest another full sized .45 with a tangible safety/hammer that is less expensive than the USP and slim enough to conceal?
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2012, 8:21 PM
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if you can do without the hammer, an m&p45, with "tangible" safety, is a good choice. haven't matched it to a usp in 45, but seemed slimmer than a usp in 40. and if you consider the glock, throw away slimmer
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2012, 8:21 PM
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one of these will be my next .45, after i find a blued Colt XSE of course
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2012, 8:32 PM
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The P220 is fine reliability wise and it conceals well in a good holster. Its a little thinner because its a single stack therefore you will not get the 10 rounds you desire out of a flush fitting magazine, 8 rounds standard.
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Old 01-06-2012, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalinejunkie View Post
I'm thinking about my next gun, which I want to be a .45 semi. I like the full size 10 round mag, so I don't think I want a compact. I was pretty much set on the USP until I started thinking about the P220 and the Glock. I don't question the Glock's reliability, but the lack of tangible safety/decocker and hammer is a bit worrisome to me. Can anyone comment on the reliability of a P220 in .45? It seems slimmer than the USP- has anyone tried to conceal one? I know a full size isn't ideal for concealment purposes, so can anyone suggest another full sized .45 with a tangible safety/hammer that is less expensive than the USP and slim enough to conceal?
1911.
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:02 PM
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None of them are easy to conceal, so if it were me, I would go with the HK 45C or USP 45C. without a second thought.
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:04 PM
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Although not my first choice, a 1911 fits your criteria minus the 10 rounds (flush fit that is).
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:07 PM
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HK compact USP 45 with 10 rnd mags 10+1 ( period )
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:11 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys now I have some more guns to look into And Ding, I thought about that- how far would the 10 rounder stick out?
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:16 PM
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The USP 45 is a beast of a pistol, there is really no dimension to it which is small. It is however as robust as a handgun can be. You loose 2 rounds complying with Kalifornia's silly magazine laws.

The P220 is a large pistol as well, but slightly svelter than the USP. Grip is thinner and *I* think the controls are more ergonomic. It has a great heritage but there are grumbles about later production guns and it does seem to be the most problematic of the P series pistols.

If you really intend on concealed carry, then I would STRONGLY recommend looking at the "compact" versions of each pistol. I am a bigger fan of the USP compacts than I am the full sized guns as I find their ergonomics much better. Although the name is "compact", they are still medium sized frames and are very pleasant to shoot.

Sig makes a similar "compact" version of the P220, but I'm not 100% sure it is rostered in Kalifornia.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2012, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvorov View Post
Sig makes a similar "compact" version of the P220, but I'm not 100% sure it is rostered in Kalifornia.
Just checked, the 220R Carry is on the roster.
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2012, 10:06 PM
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I carried both on and off duty. Both are sold. Tried HK45. Sold it to my partner...... So far both 4506-1's are perfect for me. Starting to look for a clean 4566 too.
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:18 AM
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Check the hk45 or hk45c, both have better ergos, and the hk45 doesn't feel as big as the usp 45.

I'm a Sig guy, p220 with single stack is sweet. I had the p220 equinox.... It was too pretty to shoot, so I sold it.
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2012, 5:15 AM
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Default Sig P220 vs. USP45

I have both the USP45 and the Sig P220. They are actually very similar in physical dimensions, as shown in the photo below. They both fit in the same leather holster for me - a Don Hume belt scabbard that was made for the USP45. Both are very reliable and accurate, but differ in the polymer USP frame vs. the steel or aluminum P220 frame (mine is stainless, but most P220s are aluminum). So the USP has a weight advantage in addition to the larger magazine. So for carry the USP45 is probably superior.

But if you like the P220 and wanted to carry, the most concealable version is the P245 (out of production) or currently-produced P220 compact. These have a shorter grip and barrel, with a 6+1 capacity. I have one and it conceals well in the right holster.



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  #15  
Old 01-07-2012, 9:09 AM
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Yeah, the full-size USP 45 IS a large service style pistol---I can't seem to miss with mine---reliablity has been 100%---fits my large hands well---shoots right to point of aim for me---is probably NOT the best choice for concealment---the USPC or the HK45C would be a better for concealed carry. My HK45C is a superb smaller 45. Good luck with whatever you choose!
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:03 AM
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All these guys are going on about concealed modeled, HK45c and what not - I think that's a good amount of BS. The difference between a Glock 26 and a Glock 19 for example are very small. Same exact thickness. However the Glock 19 has a longer sight radius, a full grip, longer barrel, and a rail. So until gun manufactures realize that "compact" doesn't necessarily mean cutting 1/2" off the barrel/slide and shortening the grip I will stick with the normal guns. Thickness in my opinion is the most important factor when it comes to concealed carry. I would go with the 220, I would also consider a 1911 - they are more than thin enough and 4" models (compact) will do the job just fine - but just go with full size.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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I carry a usp compact sometimes, and its a big gun to conceal well. I usually only carry that one with jackets. We live in California, carry a small pocket 9 and enjoy the weather!
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  #18  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:07 PM
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Both are great guns, best combat .45's made in my view. Between them, I prefer the HK USP45 due to larger capacity and I really like having the safety. I own two and have experienced 100% reliability with both, which is not the case in my experience with the Sig P220. Can't comment on concealed carry, no experience from my end.

I shoot the HK better, find the trigger nicer than the Sig and it is a very natural pointer that drops right back on target following a shot. Definitely would rent both before deciding which is best for you, but either way you will have a superb .45.

Last edited by Rhatical; 01-07-2012 at 12:13 PM..
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:50 PM
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Well here's my 2cents.. HK USP .45 all the way. I own two and I love them... Not to say the Sig is any worst. I want to add a Sig to my stash...
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:58 PM
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Thanks for all the responses guys! I really want a .45 for CC but a 1911 is out of my price range. Might go with a 220 compact but I love HK. I honestly might just pick up a full sized USP, get a compact 9 for CC, and pick up a 220 later hahaha
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2012, 1:00 PM
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I recommend the HK USP Compact .45 because its easier to conceal for ccw. I have a usp compact .40 but decided to go even more compact. I picked up an HK P2000SK .40 (LEM). I LOVE IT. You can't go wrong with HK. The USP compact .45 is probably a good choice to ccw. I'm only 5'8" 160lbs (athletic build) and i can conceal my USP Compact fine. I can conceal my HK P2000SK BETTER. I guess if you're a big dude, you can conceal anything, but if you're not, might be better to go with a medium sized frame like HK USP COMPACT in .45.

also, I read somewhere that Sig Sauer QC went down noticeably after 2004.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2012, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjew View Post
I recommend the HK USP Compact .45 because its easier to conceal for ccw. I have a usp compact .40 but decided to go even more compact. I picked up an HK P2000SK .40 (LEM). I LOVE IT. You can't go wrong with HK. The USP compact .45 is probably a good choice to ccw. I'm only 5'8" 160lbs (athletic build) and i can conceal my USP Compact fine. I can conceal my HK P2000SK BETTER. I guess if you're a big dude, you can conceal anything, but if you're not, might be better to go with a medium sized frame like HK USP COMPACT in .45.

also, I read somewhere that Sig Sauer QC went down noticeably after 2004.
There quality control is fine. Alot of internet rumors, I've shot plenty of them and noticed no difference. The P250 is a different story though haha.

I recommend the compact version as well OP, especially if your willing to carry whats more or less a service pistol for CCW. Dont forget a good slim 9mm or a tried and true snubbie (642/442). Myself, I'd go with the Sig, but actually if you got the compact USP, its going to give you some more milage in terms of capacity and such.
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2012, 3:54 PM
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Some pretty tough to conceal guns for CCW... even the USPc is pretty thick.
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2012, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalinejunkie View Post
Thanks for all the responses guys! I really want a .45 for CC but a 1911 is out of my price range. Might go with a 220 compact but I love HK. I honestly might just pick up a full sized USP, get a compact 9 for CC, and pick up a 220 later hahaha
a SA loaded 1911 is cheaper than the sig p220 or hk usp45.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2012, 4:36 PM
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I've owned both the Sig 220 and the USP in .45 acp. I've also seen both being fired (retired LEO rangemaster) for thousands of rounds. The H&K USP .45 seems to be more reliable than the Sig 220, but that isn't saying much. I've seen Sig 220's malfunction more than a USP, but by maybe a couple times. I would carry either one on duty, but neither for a CCW. They are too big. But between the 220 and a USP I would go for the 220. Like others have mentioned....its slimmer. Having said that I sold the 220 and still have the USP.

Don't shy away from a Glock. Look at the Glock 36. Its a fine CCW type .45. Sig 245 is decent too (no longer made). I have a few 1911's and the only one I would consider carrying is my Colt Lt Wt Commander. Its light is why I like it.

Good luck!
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Old 01-07-2012, 4:49 PM
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I have carried a USP45, USP45c, USP45Expert, Sig220, Sig229, Glock 20/20c, Glock 19, Kimber Custom, Kimber Ultra, Kimber Pro, Colt LW, SW 442, SW 441, SW 329pd, SW 340, SW 60, Kahr CW9, Kahr MP40 and many others.

The Kahrs, J-frame, Kimber Pro (commander frame), and Colt LW are slim enough and small enough that most people do not notice them.

The Glock 19/23, Sig 229 and USP45c are small enough to wear if I have a loose fitting shirt, but are still thick and leave a print in anything other than loose clothes.

The full sized double stack guns I have found to be too large for me to carry conceiled without a loose jacket. Of couse I am not a "large" man.
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  #27  
Old 01-07-2012, 6:21 PM
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these are a colt ser70 1911, (8rds), an m&p45, (10rds), and an M&945c, (8rds), all +1 of course side views, and grip width view





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  #28  
Old 01-07-2012, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter9659 View Post
I have carried a USP45, USP45c, USP45Expert, Sig220, Sig229, Glock 20/20c, Glock 19, Kimber Custom, Kimber Ultra, Kimber Pro, Colt LW, SW 442, SW 441, SW 329pd, SW 340, SW 60, Kahr CW9, Kahr MP40 and many others.

The Kahrs, J-frame, Kimber Pro (commander frame), and Colt LW are slim enough and small enough that most people do not notice them.

The Glock 19/23, Sig 229 and USP45c are small enough to wear if I have a loose fitting shirt, but are still thick and leave a print in anything other than loose clothes.

The full sized double stack guns I have found to be too large for me to carry conceiled without a loose jacket. Of couse I am not a "large" man.
Same, the J frame is tried and true and its really as light as it gets (although there are some lighter stuff out as of now). LCR is an option but I find I shoot the 642 and 442 better.
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