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  #1  
Old 01-04-2012, 1:13 AM
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Default Thoughts on HK LEM

So I just " upgraded " my ver.1 USP9 to LEM. I shoot Glock, and i had heard a lot of referance to LEM when people discuss DA/SA, DAO, or striker fired. It's like the perfect " compromise". I personally did the part swap so I'm pretty familiar with LEM now. It's just an traditional DA/SA with a funky hammer to make it look like a DAO. For LEO it might work well with their philosophy, "DAO is safer because it takes long and dilibrate pull to fire each shot" but it takes so much more effort to be proficient with it. So why not create a SA gun that look like DAO and take away all the decoder and safety. So what are your thoughts?
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Old 01-04-2012, 3:31 AM
dobsy5111 dobsy5111 is offline
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I have the p2000 lem. Not sure if yours is different, but mine is strictly DAO. It's not DA/SA, there is no way to put the pistol in SA mode by cocking the hammer. I think you are right that it is designed with a deliberate mile long trigger pull to make it harder to fire the weapon on accident and yes it takes practice to get used to the trigger. What youre describing, 'a SA gun that looks like a DAO with no decocker or safety' doesn't sound like a very good idea for a LEO gun. That means a LEO would have to pull the gun out and cock it before he can fire. Or he would have to carry the gun cocked which would be dangerous because as you described the gun, it has no decocker or safety. Or am I misunderstanding you?
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2012, 8:54 AM
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The LEM was that idea... where you have the long trigger pull before the break.

What spring did you use ??? did you keep your 12lb main spring or went with the heavier LEM spring ??? Did you keep your safety or took it out ??? You could keep your safety just replace the detent with a variant 9 one to get rid of the decocker function... Add a Match trigger and its the best of both worlds aka Combat Competition...
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Old 01-04-2012, 9:32 AM
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LEM noobs don't realize that you have to rack the slide each time before dry firing to get the "LEM trigger" feel. If you're just trying to pull the trigger without racking the slide it's gonna be long and heavy.
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Old 01-04-2012, 9:44 AM
davbog44 davbog44 is offline
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I like both the HK LEM trigger and the SIG DAK trigger; all 3 of my carry guns (1 HK, 2 SIGs) are in those configurations. For me, I get better results; maybe because I grew up shooting revolvers DA, I'm not sure. But I adapted to both very easily and now it's my preference for a carry gun.

To your point for regarding SA pistols, I personally like the concept of the Safety Fast System developed for the 1911, where it can be (for all intents and purposes) de-cocked and then re-cocked simply by pushing down on the 1911's easily reached and manipulated safety levers. I think if a major 1911 manufacturer would offer something like that from the factory, it might have some real merit.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:05 AM
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LOVE my LEM on the uspc... Made things great! I tried full light, all the springs, but it was too light and the trigger didn't reset 100% of the time.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc748bip View Post
So I just " upgraded " my ver.1 USP9 to LEM. I shoot Glock, and i had heard a lot of referance to LEM when people discuss DA/SA, DAO, or striker fired. It's like the perfect " compromise". I personally did the part swap so I'm pretty familiar with LEM now. It's just an traditional DA/SA with a funky hammer to make it look like a DAO. For LEO it might work well with their philosophy, "DAO is safer because it takes long and dilibrate pull to fire each shot" but it takes so much more effort to be proficient with it. So why not create a SA gun that look like DAO and take away all the decoder and safety. So what are your thoughts?
Please explain this. Are you saying that you installed the LEM trigger in your gun and it still functions as DA/SA?
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:39 AM
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I think he's talking about pre cocked and not cocked. When you rack a LEM equipped HK you get the light pull after you've pulled the trigger it goes back to a long and heavy trigger pull. But if you just fired off a round then it racks the slide and you get yourself another light pull.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
I think he's talking about pre cocked and not cocked. When you rack a LEM equipped HK you get the light pull after you've pulled the trigger it goes back to a long and heavy trigger pull. But if you just fired off a round then it racks the slide and you get yourself another light pull.
Ok, got it. He's dry firing. I asked because what he said wasn't making sense to me, so I thought I might have misunderstood him.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2012, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc748bip View Post
So I just " upgraded " my ver.1 USP9 to LEM. I shoot Glock, and i had heard a lot of referance to LEM when people discuss DA/SA, DAO, or striker fired. It's like the perfect " compromise". I personally did the part swap so I'm pretty familiar with LEM now. It's just an traditional DA/SA with a funky hammer to make it look like a DAO. For LEO it might work well with their philosophy, "DAO is safer because it takes long and dilibrate pull to fire each shot" but it takes so much more effort to be proficient with it. So why not create a SA gun that look like DAO and take away all the decoder and safety. So what are your thoughts?
Have you shot it yet with live ammo? Every trigger pull should be the same with the LEM. If it is still acting like a traditional DA/SA gun, then you have not installed the parts correctly. There should be no decocker or safety on a LEM gun.
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Old 01-04-2012, 6:05 PM
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When dry firing, you can pull the trigger about half way and thumb the hammer the rest of the way to "cock" the gun for another practice trigger pull. No need to rack the slide.

The LEM trigger is essentially a single action trigger pull with a lot of takeup. It's really not that hard to shoot once you get the hang of it. I'd been shooting Glocks and 1911's for a while when I first picked up a LEM HK.....since then, I can shoot one better than a Glock and almost as good as a 1911.

A lot of people get a "better" trigger pull by adding a lighter TRS in place of the heavier one.....not really my cup of tea though. You can learn to shoot the standard setup pretty well.

HK makes a hell of a gun but like anything else: they're not for everyone.
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Old 01-04-2012, 8:48 PM
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when shooting mine, it is 1.75 lb pull to the end of the trigger pull, and it is 4.5 lb trigger pull to get the hammer to fall. I like it
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2012, 9:26 PM
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I like my stock V1 USP40. After almost 18 years of practice on that baby, it's not about to get changed...



..
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Old 01-04-2012, 9:35 PM
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If you like the LEM, definitely try the light LEM.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2012, 9:36 PM
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I get my HKP2000SK on monday well see if I like the trigger
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:48 PM
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My reference to DA/SA is that, with LEM you can pull a decoked hammer from rest like an traditional DA trigger (that pull is heavier like traditional DA) every subsequent shot is fires what appeared to be DAO but in fact is an SA pull with two piece hammer. You are not over coming the main/hammer spring in the pull but the "cocking piece spring (62L) and the "trigger rebound spring (27)"
So the in DAO you are actually firing in SA but with the pull is weighted with something other then the hammer spring.
i hope i'm making more sense typing on a computer.
With that said, I think LEM is a "feel good" approach to PD that want DAO but want something easier to train their recruits.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc748bip View Post
My reference to DA/SA is that, with LEM you can pull a decoked hammer from rest like an traditional DA trigger (that pull is heavier like traditional DA) every subsequent shot is fires what appeared to be DAO but in fact is an SA pull with two piece hammer. You are not over coming the main/hammer spring in the pull but the "cocking piece spring (62L) and the "trigger rebound spring (27)"
So the in DAO you are actually firing in SA but with the pull is weighted with something other then the hammer spring.
i hope i'm making more sense typing on a computer.
With that said, I think LEM is a "feel good" approach to PD that want DAO but want something easier to train their recruits.
You still aren't making any sense.
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2012, 2:11 AM
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I have several HK pistols and all mine are DA/SA---I like them that way. I have shot a number of HKs with the LEM trigger and liked them as well. I think it's just what you become used to.
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Old 01-05-2012, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbog44 View Post
[...] I personally like the concept of the Safety Fast System developed for the 1911, where it can be (for all intents and purposes) de-cocked and then re-cocked simply by pushing down on the 1911's easily reached and manipulated safety levers. I think if a major 1911 manufacturer would offer something like that from the factory, it might have some real merit.
The user interface with this system is exactly the same as a standard 1911 - disengage the manual safety and fire in single action. It has a 2 piece hammer, so while the hammer appears down, the hammer spring is "cocked." The ONLY use I can see is for LEO open carry, to not scare housewives with a "cocked .45." Anyone who knows 1911s knows that the safety only engages with the hammer back.

I don't see what aversion people have to cocked carry. In a modern 1911, you've got a manual safety, a grip safety, likely a firing pin safety, and a trigger obscured by a kydex holster. What more could you want?
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