Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-25-2011, 2:16 PM
Swiss's Avatar
Swiss Swiss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Contra Costa
Posts: 801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Quick legality check on M1 carbine and CA law

Pardon the stupid question but I'd rather double-check than miss something: a friend is visiting by car from out-of-state and brought along his M1 carbine with 15 round mags.

Under CA law an unmodified M1 carbine is not an "assault weapon" and as long as he owned the magazines pre-2000 there is nothing illegal in this scenario, correct? And he should transport it locked up, with empty or no mags in the rifle, to be in full compliance of state and fed laws (GFSZs)?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
__________________
Being pro-gun rights in the Bay Area is like being a vegan at an Outback Steakhouse. You know you're right but nobody gives a damn.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-25-2011, 2:23 PM
microwaveguy's Avatar
microwaveguy microwaveguy is offline
klaatu barada nikto!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,327
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

If these mags where in CA when the ban effecting them was created then I believe is is fine. If these mags have never been in CA before then he needs to disassemble them NOW

The problem is he is from out of state and brought them in state and would be considered importing, so the devil is in the details.
__________________
Limit politicians to two terms. One in office and one in jail.

Beware of people who are certain they are right. That certainty allows them to justify almost any act in pursuit of their goals. ( Jack campbell , Guardian)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-25-2011, 3:44 PM
Swiss's Avatar
Swiss Swiss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Contra Costa
Posts: 801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Is there any sort of exemption for people who are just visiting CA, in this case less than 1 week? I'm wondering what out-of-state shooters do if they attend a CA competition.
__________________
Being pro-gun rights in the Bay Area is like being a vegan at an Outback Steakhouse. You know you're right but nobody gives a damn.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-25-2011, 3:51 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 23,869
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
Is there any sort of exemption for people who are just visiting CA, in this case less than 1 week? I'm wondering what out-of-state shooters do if they attend a CA competition.
There are roughly 27 exemptions to the California large capacity magazine law, but there is no exemption for visitors or competition purposes.

The only exemption that MIGHT apply would be if he lawfully possessed the magazines in California prior to Jan 1, 2000.

Back on the M1....

If the M1 has a flash hider, then it would fall under California's SB23 assault weapons ban if it also has a detachable magazine.
__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-25-2011, 3:53 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 23,869
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by microwaveguy View Post
If these mags have never been in CA before then he needs to disassemble them NOW
Why?

Possession is not illegal. The crime was that of importation. That already happened and disassembling the magazines does not change that.

All disassembly allows for is for a person to perjure themselves and claim that the magazines were legally imported disassembled.
__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-25-2011, 5:20 PM
microwaveguy's Avatar
microwaveguy microwaveguy is offline
klaatu barada nikto!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,327
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Perjury was never implied ...... my thoughts where if something happen and he was taken in with the whole story coming out that once he realized what had happened he converted them to a legal form the system might go easier on him. Still has the importing issue to deal with. If it was my choice I would put them in a box and mail them back to myself out of state.

Possession is not a crime but these are not "clean" mags.
__________________
Limit politicians to two terms. One in office and one in jail.

Beware of people who are certain they are right. That certainty allows them to justify almost any act in pursuit of their goals. ( Jack campbell , Guardian)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-25-2011, 5:44 PM
CHS's Avatar
CHS CHS is offline
Moderator Emeritus
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Posts: 11,329
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

He is guilty of felony importation of large-capacity magazines. Sadly, there are probably no exemptions that he can claim in this case.

With that sad, they were already imported and a crime has already been committed that cannot be undone so he might as well just use the mags with the firearm here in CA since possession by itself is not against the law. He should not tell anyone that he imported them unlawfully though.

Now, if your friend was FROM California originally and possessed those magazines IN ANY CAPACITY inside California BEFORE January 1st, 2001, no matter for how long or short a period, then he is actually exempt from the law and DID NOT unlawfully import those magazines.

For example, did he at any time visit you in California before the year 2000 with those magazines? If so, then he can legally import and re-import those magazines as often as he would like without legal repercussions.
__________________
Please read the Calguns Wiki
Quote:
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-25-2011, 5:57 PM
dantodd dantodd is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Carlos
Posts: 9,362
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I would suggest that disassembling the magazines would make the prosecutor's job a lot harder should he have LE interaction.
__________________
Coyote Point Armory
341 Beach Road
Burlingame CA 94010
650-315-2210
http://CoyotePointArmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-25-2011, 9:31 PM
Swiss's Avatar
Swiss Swiss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Contra Costa
Posts: 801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks all. He is originally from CA and the M1 may in fact have been purchased during that period.

Don't yet know if it has a flash hider but I think it's unlikely.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-25-2011, 9:38 PM
ColdDeadHands1's Avatar
ColdDeadHands1 ColdDeadHands1 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains (Santa Clara County)
Posts: 2,997
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

You should expect black helicopters landing on the roof any second now!

Seriously, disassemble them and be done with it.
__________________


"Let me guess... This isn't about the alcohol or tobacco?"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-25-2011, 9:39 PM
Cali-Shooter's Avatar
Cali-Shooter Cali-Shooter is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,094
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

An M1 carbine can't have a flash hider unless he installed one of these on it (a screw-on muzzle device) OR he has a custom barrel with one integrated somehow:



Also, sadly, there is NO exemption in CA law for "high capacity" magazine importation (if it wasn't in CA in his possession before 2000) for guests or visitors, that's Fascist-fornia for you.

We hope to get this and many other ridiculous legislative overturned or nullified one of these days.
__________________
In Glock We Trust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep7081
My wife sleeps better knowing we have a zombie killer... Saiga AK47! Although my neighbor with his AR has restless nights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AleksandreCz View Post
Thank god the Federal Government is there to protect us from the Federal Government
WTS: Revision 'Desert Locust' tactical Ballistic/Protective eyewear goggles NEW & USED pairs
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=737563
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-26-2011, 6:38 PM
SimpleCountryActuary's Avatar
SimpleCountryActuary SimpleCountryActuary is offline
Not a miracle worker
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,702
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter View Post
An M1 carbine can't have a flash hider unless he installed one of these on it (a screw-on muzzle device) OR he has a custom barrel with one integrated somehow:



Also, sadly, there is NO exemption in CA law for "high capacity" magazine importation (if it wasn't in CA in his possession before 2000) for guests or visitors, that's Fascist-fornia for you.

We hope to get this and many other ridiculous legislative overturned or nullified one of these days.
Ah yes, the "Cone of Loudness".

They were actually of some use on the M2 Carbines in Korea, especially with the infra-red night scopes.

Do not attach one to your M1.

Best!
__________________
"The most hated initials in America today ... TSA."

Said by yours truly to an audience of nodding IRS employees.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-26-2011, 7:18 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,762
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
I would suggest that disassembling the magazines would make the prosecutor's job a lot harder should he have LE interaction.
Correct. In combination with the necessary STFU-except-thru-lawyer, it offers protection.

ALWAYS do anything to raise burden of proof/add confusion.
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-26-2011, 7:19 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,762
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter View Post
An M1 carbine can't have a flash hider unless he installed one of these on it (a screw-on muzzle device) OR he has a custom barrel with one integrated somehow:



.
THis device is indeed a flash hider and is prohibited from use on a normal M1 Carbine (unless it were to strangely be equipped with a BulletButton-styled maglock).
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:25 PM
Fate's Avatar
Fate Fate is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Proud Member of the Quitter Club. Moscow, ID
Posts: 9,108
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

Make sure he doesn't have a paratrooper "folding stock" on it either. That's an AW feature and will get him popped for yet another felony.
__________________
"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed"

"Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson
, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-27-2011, 3:48 PM
Kauf's Avatar
Kauf Kauf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quantico, VA
Posts: 438
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
There are roughly 27 exemptions to the California large capacity magazine law, but there is no exemption for visitors or competition purposes.

The only exemption that MIGHT apply would be if he lawfully possessed the magazines in California prior to Jan 1, 2000.

Back on the M1....

If the M1 has a flash hider, then it would fall under California's SB23 assault weapons ban if it also has a detachable magazine.
Can you legally put a flash hider on an M1 Garand since the magazine is internal, non detachable?
__________________
WTB M2 Ball .30-06
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-27-2011, 4:04 PM
CHS's Avatar
CHS CHS is offline
Moderator Emeritus
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Posts: 11,329
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kauf View Post
Can you legally put a flash hider on an M1 Garand since the magazine is internal, non detachable?
Yes.
__________________
Please read the Calguns Wiki
Quote:
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:54 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.