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  #1  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:20 PM
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Default Is 8mm for the mauser the same as 8mm rem mag?

hey this may sound very stupid but I don't know and Wikipedia wasn't being clear enough to me.
so are these the same cartridge or not?
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Old 12-23-2011, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JLMXD View Post
hey this may sound very stupid but I don't know and Wikipedia wasn't being clear enough to me.
so are these the same cartridge or not?
They are definitely NOT the same.
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Old 12-23-2011, 9:00 PM
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What he said.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Remington_Magnum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_mauser
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:08 PM
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Not a stupid question at all - Cartridges and their names can be very confusing.
8mm mauser/8x57 is a rimless case about 2.24" long (56.85mm) and uses a .323 bullet of about 195gr.
8mm Rem mag is a belted case about 2.850 (72.33mm) long and uses a .323 diameter bullet of about 220 gr.
The differences are very apparent when viewed side by side.
my tuppence
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Old 12-23-2011, 9:50 PM
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They are definitely NOT the same.
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Originally Posted by gunboat View Post
Not a stupid question at all - Cartridges and their names can be very confusing.
8mm mauser/8x57 is a rimless case about 2.24" long (56.85mm) and uses a .323 bullet of about 195gr.
8mm Rem mag is a belted case about 2.850 (72.33mm) long and uses a .323 diameter bullet of about 220 gr.
The differences are very apparent when viewed side by side.
my tuppence
ok just wanted to make sure. I was looking at hunting ammo and I like double tap and they only had the REM and i didn't want to make a huge mistake.
thanks for the info
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:20 AM
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Its a good thing one of them is a Mauser and the other a Magnum, otherwise people would get confused.
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Old 12-24-2011, 9:34 AM
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Its a good thing one of them is a Mauser and the other a Magnum, otherwise people would get confused.
7.62x54r and 7.62x53 are the same round so maybe mauser and magnum could have been confused. it was just clarification. but thank you for your comment anyway
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Old 12-24-2011, 3:16 PM
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^^ definately NOT true. 7.62x53r has a shorter case length, is for pre D166 Finnish Mosins and is a .308 projectile. 54r is a .310 projectile, and is used for all soviet and Finnish "D" stamped (or chambered) Mosins
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Old 12-24-2011, 3:32 PM
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^^ definately NOT true. 7.62x53r has a shorter case length, is for pre D166 Finnish Mosins and is a .308 projectile. 54r is a .310 projectile, and is used for all soviet and Finnish "D" stamped (or chambered) Mosins
you can shoot it in a mosin just fine
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:28 PM
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you can shoot it in a mosin just fine
Shoot it in yours. 53R in a soviet mosin will have accuracy issues due to incorrect bullit size. 54R in a pre D166 barrelled Finn mosin will have overpressure issues. Again, not a good idea. 2 different rounds for 2 different era/country mosin types. But you obviously have been researching and collecting mosins longer than me (20+ years), right?
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:31 PM
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Maybe you have a headspace issue. X53 and x54 are 2 different measurements.
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:35 PM
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Shoot it in yours. 53R in a soviet mosin will have accuracy issues due to incorrect bullit size. 54R in a pre D166 barrelled Finn mosin will have overpressure issues. Again, not a good idea. 2 different rounds for 2 different era/country mosin types. But you obviously have been researching and collecting mosins longer than me (20+ years), right?
It's like playing the slots at the casino, one day he'll hit the jackpot.
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:35 PM
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Maybe you have a headspace issue. X53 and x54 are 2 different measurements.
^^^This. and also 53R= .308, 54R~.310
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:35 PM
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Not to mention that the rem Mag is loaded to a lot higher pressure than the Mauser. And, IMHO, needlessly high. Properly loaded the 8mm Mauser is sufficient for anything on the lower 48 and most of the rest of the world. If you have one, shoot it well and never look back, as they say. Heck, the 7mm Mauser can do it all, as well. One just has to be prudent with one's shots and being fleet footed, just in case, doesn't hurt!
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Old 12-24-2011, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Howie44 View Post
Shoot it in yours. 53R in a soviet mosin will have accuracy issues due to incorrect bullit size. 54R in a pre D166 barrelled Finn mosin will have overpressure issues. Again, not a good idea. 2 different rounds for 2 different era/country mosin types. But you obviously have been researching and collecting mosins longer than me (20+ years), right?
Tell it to those noobs over at Lapua.

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/spo...rfire-rifle/22
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Old 12-24-2011, 9:40 PM
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Tell it to those noobs over at Lapua.

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/spo...rfire-rifle/22
You do know that ammo is developed for competion rifles like the M28/76 and hunting rifles with a .308 bore? its not made for Mosins. You could use it in pre D166 chambered Finns, but why? Come on Mssr., you are a mosin conniseur. you should know this. The noob OP that has 1 91/30 has no reason to know the difference.
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:02 PM
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Gee, ask a simple question and what do you get --
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:17 PM
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Are most of the CalGunners this mean? If so, I'm gonna hate my stay here. The OP asked a question. You guys tell him the answer and ask why he didn't know. He said it could be confusing cause such and such can be fired in a gun chambered in this certain caliber. You guys go into a pissing war, and act like jerks. Oh, and so you guys know, I have fired 5 rounds of 7.62x53R in a M-91/30, and had no adverse affects besides not hitting much of anything. I wouldn't fire a 54R in a rifle chambered in 53R though. That could be BAD. Over pressure city.
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Old 12-25-2011, 7:15 PM
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Are most of the CalGunners this mean? If so, I'm gonna hate my stay here. The OP asked a question. You guys tell him the answer and ask why he didn't know. He said it could be confusing cause such and such can be fired in a gun chambered in this certain caliber. You guys go into a pissing war, and act like jerks. Oh, and so you guys know, I have fired 5 rounds of 7.62x53R in a M-91/30, and had no adverse affects besides not hitting much of anything. I wouldn't fire a 54R in a rifle chambered in 53R though. That could be BAD. Over pressure city.
Naw, but you gotta have a thick skin sometimes.
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2011, 9:10 PM
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Try it out. If it doesn't fit force it in. Just means its extra secure. Then fire it.

Jesus Christ. They don't even have the same name.
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Old 12-25-2011, 9:13 PM
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And its not even like close to resembling the same case.

Its not even 7.63x25 vs 7.62x25 resemblance either.
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Old 12-25-2011, 9:19 PM
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Are most of the CalGunners this mean? If so, I'm gonna hate my stay here. ...(snip)... You guys go into a pissing war, and act like jerks.
Oh dude, with that kind of attitude, you will be eaten alive here. Yes, there is a "fair" share of a-holes on here, I've lost a couple of friends that way and have had multiple frenemies.

People love to defend their cyber-weenies to the death. :coolguy:
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Old 12-25-2011, 9:30 PM
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I'd rather have someone who admits they tried to find the answer and got confused ask on the forum rather than guess and hurt themselves, or in this case find out the round doesn't fit and have to send it back.

Some of the similar rounds like 38 ACP vs 38 Super and .30 Mauser vs 7.62x25 work one way fine most of the time and can sometimes blow up in your face if you put the stronger round in a gun chambered for the lower pressure version.

With the number of names used for 8mm Mauser rounds I can see how he got confused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8%C3%9757mm_IS

The 7.92×57mm Mauser (sometimes called the 8mm Mauser or 8x57mm IS) is a rimless bottlenecked rifle cartridge. The 7.92×57mm cartridge was adopted by the German Empire in 1905, and was the German service cartridge in both World Wars. IS stands for Infanterie, Spitz(geschoß) or "Infantry, Pointed (projectile)".
The cartridge on which it was based was adopted by Germany in 1888 as the M/88 7.92×57mm I (I stands for Infanterie or "Infantry") along with the Gewehr 1888 service rifle. It was designed by the German Gewehr-Prüfungskommission (G.P.K.) ("Rifle Testing Commission") for the Gewehr 1888 and later used in Mauser bolt-action rifles, machine guns, and other ordnance weapons.
The 1888 pattern of the M/88 cartridge is currently known in Europe as the 7.92×57mm I (C.I.P. designation). The 1905 pattern cartridge is currently known in Europe as the 8×57 IS (C.I.P. designation) and in the United States of America as the 8mm Mauser, also known as 8×57mm (SAAMI designations).[2] The widespread use in German military Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98k service rifles designed and manufactured by Mauser caused the "Mauser" tag, though Mauser had nothing to do with the development of this cartridge. Some sources list it also as "7.92×57mm JS", as capital letters I and J were interchangeable in abbreviations at this time.
In some English-speaking areas, the cartridge is called 8mm Mauser. The British and Commonwealth forces used the 7.92×57mm Mauser cartridge in the BESA machine gun mounted on their armoured vehicles during World War II and referred to this ammunition as "7.92".
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Howie44 View Post
Shoot it in yours. 53R in a soviet mosin will have accuracy issues due to incorrect bullit size. 54R in a pre D166 barrelled Finn mosin will have overpressure issues. Again, not a good idea. 2 different rounds for 2 different era/country mosin types. But you obviously have been researching and collecting mosins longer than me (20+ years), right?

And this is why I'd rather have an Ukko-Pekka.



OP, no shame in asking even a dumb question--better you do and find out for sure. Besides, it didn't cost anything.

Carry on!


FWIW, I have Cartridges of the World, and the 7.62x53 and 7.62x54R are on the same entry...
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:46 PM
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...FWIW, I have Cartridges of the World, and the 7.62x53 and 7.62x54R are on the same entry...
Cartridges of the World? Those guys are bigger noobs than Lapua.
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Old 12-26-2011, 7:57 AM
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The bad thing about saying that 7.62X53 and 7.62X54R are interchangeable is that while shooting the smaller 7.62x53 in the larger chamber and bore of the 7.62x54R may be OK, the reverse may not be true.
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Old 12-26-2011, 8:58 PM
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Well, I am not worried about anyone buying 8mm magnum with the intent of firing in a Mauser, if they can even find some 8mm Magnum, then there is the price and finally it won't chamber thus no real danger.
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Old 12-26-2011, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JLMXD View Post
you can shoot it in a mosin just fine
Sure, you can shoot both cartridges in the Mosins that they were designed to be shot from. Anything else is just plain stupid.
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Old 12-27-2011, 9:19 AM
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Cartridges of the World? Those guys are bigger noobs than Lapua.
What he said.

As the OP noted, there are several rounds out there that have different names that mean the same thing. Some of you are getting your panties in a wad over something else that even many well-informed sources consider to be minor semantics. If you are sure that you know better than both one of the premier ammo makers on the planet, and one of the best overall guides for cartridges currently in publication, feel free to bask in the glory of being you. The rest of us can only aspire to reach such enlightened heights someday.

Meanwhile, back in reality, there is no surprise that he got confused over the cartridge name. Remember, that it is called several things other than 8mm Masuer. It can also go by 8x57mm, 8x57JS, and 7.92x57. And there are similar cartridges called 8x57J, 8x57JR, 8x57JSR, 8x54, 8x56R (two different cartridges by this name), 8x58R, and probably a few that I am missing. So get off your high horses and be nice. There was no call to start flaming somebody over a very minor difference in semantics. If you are such a God of firearms knowledge, how about you list all the names for the .380 ACP cartridge without going and looking it up?

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Old 12-27-2011, 9:32 AM
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I like the part where he said 54r and 53 were the same cartridge.

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Old 12-27-2011, 9:43 AM
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I like the part where he said 54r and 53 were the same cartridge.

Yes, one wonders how he could be so knowledgable........if incorrect, about x54/53 and not be able to figure out the wikipedia entries.

Briefly wonder, that is.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:23 AM
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Here is some of the information from Wiki quoting three different ammo makers. I think you guys lose this argument. They have ruled that their ammo is safe for use in either. End of story.

"The Finnish commercial ammunition manufacturer Lapua does not make a difference between the 53R and 54R, but produces cartridges that will function in weapons chambered for either one.

The Russian ammunition maker Barnaul states that Russian cartridges marked 7.62×53 are the same as 7.62×54. From their web site: "Some hunters have been confused because there have been varying marking on the package, case bottom and stamps: 7.62×53: 7.62×53R: 7.62×54: 7.52×54R. This happened because the 53.72 mm case length was rounded off differently in various countries. After Russia became a member of the European Permanent Coordinated Commission, the final name - "7.62×54R" - of the cartridge was accepted. "

Additionally, Russian ammunition manufacturer LVE (Novosibirsk Cartridge Plant) states, "The cartridges cal.7,62×54R are produced by various producers around the world. Producers mark these cartridges differently, and this leads to confusion among the customers – 7.62х53; 7.62×53R; 7.62х54; 7.62×54R. The confusion is based on difference in rounding out (rounding up or rounding down) the case length (case length of our cartridges is 53.65-0.2 mm). The letter "R" indicates a case rim. After Russia’s joining European Commission (ПМК) a definite name of this cartridge was determined – 7,62×54R. Therefore you may use cartridges of caliber 7.62х54R freely with your arms [marked as 7.62×53R]."
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2011, 3:28 PM
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Old 12-27-2011, 3:46 PM
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"The Finnish commercial ammunition manufacturer Lapua does not make a difference between the 53R and 54R, but produces cartridges that will function in weapons chambered for either one."

This is true. Thats because they use a .308 bullit for this commercial ammo!!! Surplus 54R is .310~.311. Ever try a .308 bullit in a surplus weapon chambered for a .310 bullit? accurracy sucks! not the same ammo. Read Lapua's charts, its not the same bullit that all but the old Finn (pre D166) mosins were designed to shoot. its for commercial precision and hunting rifles Commercial vs. surplus. Apples vs. oranges. Not the same. read the charts. if their cases are the same and classed together, thats one thing. But having 2 different diameter projectiles makes them different rounds for different types of rifles. you want to shoot it and pay high dollar for sh**ty accurracy, be my guest.
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Old 12-27-2011, 3:54 PM
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So all of the online resources, including three different ammunition manufacturers are wrong, and you are right, huh?
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Old 12-27-2011, 7:26 PM
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So all of the online resources, including three different ammunition manufacturers are wrong, and you are right, huh?
Nope. what I'm saying isn that you are spreading incorrect info because you are not reading the manufacture's own specs that you are using to attempt to prove your point

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/rel...fle-bullets/10

they use a .308 bullet in that ammo. If you'd like, I have both types. You can shoot both fot yourself in one of my Mosins or one of yours, and see what I'm talking about. its not made for surplus rifles. it will be all over the map, and not group for s**t. Now I dont care what you think you know, but you didn't do your research other than a superficial one. the invitation is open, come see for youirself
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Old 12-27-2011, 7:34 PM
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^^^This. and also 53R= .308, 54R~.310
^^^This^^^
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Old 12-27-2011, 7:35 PM
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YHBT. YHL. HAND.
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Old 12-27-2011, 7:44 PM
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YHBT. YHL. HAND.
Sorry, dont speak teenager
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Old 12-27-2011, 7:49 PM
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You can always google it.
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