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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
What's the governments compelling interest in the 10 day wait/cooling off period/ban for someone who already owns a firearm?
^^^This^^^^
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  #122  
Old 12-24-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
The second waiting period does seem like a decent target but the fact that you already have a gun or guns means it's less of a burden on the core right, less rigorous review, easier to justify the regulation, etc.
And should a court follow any of the modes of analysis in Heller there is no way to justify the 2nd waiting period under intermediate scrutiny, much less Ezell's almost strict scrutiny. The waiting period is even worse under the historical categorical analysis as the waiting periods didn't show up until the early 20th century.

Fundamental enumerated rights have higher standards of review than the now vacated Nordyke opinion.

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  #123  
Old 12-24-2011, 1:28 PM
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Well as much as I would like to see the 10 ban vanish , this is California

I am thinking the first compromise offered by the state might be that if you have a COE then there won't be a wait.
The state is going to TRY to still make money off of us somehow

Thanks CGF and Merry Christmas
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  #124  
Old 12-24-2011, 1:47 PM
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BTW is CGF asking for a preliminary injunction? I'm guessing that's what Gene means by this being quicker than the others.
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  #125  
Old 12-24-2011, 1:54 PM
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No and no.
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  #126  
Old 12-24-2011, 1:58 PM
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Watch it be held pending Nordyke. Everything else is...
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  #127  
Old 12-24-2011, 2:03 PM
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Hmm.. are they expecting the legislature to change the law and moot the case?
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  #128  
Old 12-24-2011, 2:14 PM
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Heard about this when I was @ VA yesterday night. Didnít think anything of it until I checked my email this AM.

Great Job CGF!!! Thank you again for helping to support my 2A rights.
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  #129  
Old 12-24-2011, 2:40 PM
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Watch it be held pending Nordyke. Everything else is...
Now there's the kcbrown we've come to know and appreciate!
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  #130  
Old 12-24-2011, 3:16 PM
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This is long overdue!

Happy holidays to all!!!!!!!
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  #131  
Old 12-24-2011, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This case is right on time for an old schedule that's been there a while. After it's over, remind me and I'll explain. Hint - this might win a little faster than usual...

-Gene
I can't see how it could but....


Does this in any way relate to a soon to be delivered package?
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  #132  
Old 12-24-2011, 3:21 PM
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Go get em!
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  #133  
Old 12-24-2011, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safewaysecurity View Post
Hmm.. are they expecting the legislature to change the law and moot the case?
Ha, yeah right. Given the obstinacy of the Legislature, I seriously doubt this..
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  #134  
Old 12-24-2011, 4:41 PM
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  #135  
Old 12-24-2011, 4:45 PM
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Merry Christmas
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  #136  
Old 12-24-2011, 5:11 PM
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Way to go Calguns!!!

Maybe the complaint could be amended to be a class action lawsuit stating that millions of subjects of PRK have been denied their constitutional rights and we are seeking lawyers' fees and punitive damages. I myself would be willing to negotiate the damages so instead of money they could give us the following:
1. Shall Issue LTC (open or concealed)
2. Lift the 10rd mag limit
3. NO more BB's needed
4. 1 in 30 is reversed
5. .50BMG are ok again
6. SBR & SBS registrations can be bought at local dealer for about $10 and are automatic if pass background check
7. Safe gun roster is gone
8. Anything else that my fellow calgunners feel we have been denied
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  #137  
Old 12-24-2011, 5:23 PM
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Way to go Calguns!!!


.......4. 1 in 30 is reversed.......

I agree that limiting firearms purchases to 30 in any one day is fair.

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  #138  
Old 12-24-2011, 5:38 PM
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Well we have a 30 day ban after purchasing a handgun, maybe we can lather rinse repeat on that one if we can win this one.
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  #139  
Old 12-24-2011, 5:56 PM
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Well I can only hope this is a win for all of us by next Christmas. Go Hoff.
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  #140  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:12 PM
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I agree that limiting firearms purchases to 30 in any one day is fair.

What if for my 38th birthday I wanted 38 guns?
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  #141  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:16 PM
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Awesome news
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  #142  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:35 PM
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I hate to be a Devil's advocate but all the courts have to do like they have done so many times in the past is just say Um................. NO!

I hope it works but I'm not holding my breath.
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  #143  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:35 PM
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and a merry xmas to cgf as well
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  #144  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
And pretty soon after that we'll start seeing the anti-arsenal laws. How many guns do you really need for self defense anyway? I'm only half kidding haha. The second waiting period does seem like a decent target but the fact that you already have a gun or guns means it's less of a burden on the core right, less rigorous review, easier to justify the regulation, etc.
well the anti "arsenal" laws have already been proposed and floated a few times over at least the last 30 years...so if your right, then we really aren't risking anything new.

But using the fact you already own a gun as an argument that a wait on a second or third or... isn't such a burden on a core right...wouldn't that open a can of worms for the other side. At the very least it would mean they would have to give up on the idea that the 2nd isn't an core right, that it doesn't give the individual the right to own a gun. I can just see our attorney now..."so, if the wait isn't a burden on a core right since you have already exercised it and have at least one gun, I am understanding you that we agree the ability to acquire arms is a core right...so how then do you justify the initial 10 day wait burden again?"
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  #145  
Old 12-24-2011, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don29palms View Post
I hate to be a Devil's advocate but all the courts have to do like they have done so many times in the past is just say Um................. NO!

I hope it works but I'm not holding my breath.
I hear you, and I get where the past really seems to support that idea....

However, the impression I am getting is the new "leaders" in the fight to reclaim our civil rights to own, buy, carry, use arms are building arguments that make that very hard to do.

In the past in California it went pretty much like this...cal rifle/pistol/nra lawyers would say... "But, But, the Second Amendment protects or was violated" or something like that.

But since the 2nd was never incorporated via the 14th and California didn't have it's own version of the 2nd in it's state constitution it was very easy for the Judges to say, NO...and even HA!, HELL NO!... see ya, do not pass go do not collect $200.

But things aren't quite the way they were...We have better lawyers, Heller, McDonald, possibly Nordyke ... The game has changed, the rules have changed and while not everyone has gotten the memo, the USSC did, they wrote it..and from what the "right people" here indicate, they don't like their memo's not being read correctly.

Me thinks the next 5 to 10 years are going to VERY, VERY interesting and VERY, VERY FUN as long as stupid mistakes aren't made by unqualified people.
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  #146  
Old 12-24-2011, 7:06 PM
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Job well done guys!
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  #147  
Old 12-24-2011, 7:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1859sharps View Post
But using the fact you already own a gun as an argument that a wait on a second or third or... isn't such a burden on a core right...wouldn't that open a can of worms for the other side. At the very least it would mean they would have to give up on the idea that the 2nd isn't an core right, that it doesn't give the individual the right to own a gun.
Not at all. They merely have to say, "We don't agree that gun ownership is a core right, but even if it was, once you have one gun, that would be enough to exercise it, and any further purchases surely would rate lower protection. So even if the gun nuts are right (which we don't think is so), we can still put restrictions on subsequent purchases." In other words, they can argue from a hypothetical that they don't admit to and still make the same arguments.
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  #148  
Old 12-24-2011, 7:35 PM
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Good luck. Thank you for fighting for all of our gun rights!!!

Maybe next year there will be a lift on hi cap magazine bans!!!
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  #149  
Old 12-24-2011, 7:48 PM
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You should have had the COE holder buy two rifles of the same make and model. One with a date within the C&R range, and one outside of it. That way he would take one home immediately and have to wait 10 days for the other. That ought to make for a nice argument in court.
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  #150  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
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Watch it be held pending Nordyke. Everything else is...
Don't jinx us!
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  #151  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:06 PM
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Thank you calguns... This is why I donate.
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  #152  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:25 PM
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man i got so excited had to donated somes funds to the great cause
way to go CGF. as soon as this goes through i will buy a gun just to celabrated woooohooooooo
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  #153  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:50 PM
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Watch it be held pending Nordyke. Everything else is...
Nordyke is the case that never finishes.
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  #154  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:01 PM
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Nordyke is the case that never finishes.
Nordyke is the real life version of the movie Ground Hogs Day.
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  #155  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:43 PM
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I do see one potential defense the state can use, and likely they could be very successful with it. All they have to do is claim that the current gun owners database is so inaccurate and full of errors that they cannot confirm if an individual currently owns or has ever purchased a gun.

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  #156  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:08 PM
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I do see one potential defense the state can use, and likely they could be very successful with it. All they have to do is claim that the current gun owners database is so inaccurate and full of errors that they cannot confirm if an individual currently owns or has ever purchased a gun.

Can't they argue that it would prevent Columbine style shootings by forcing the person to think about what their doing? What I mean is, say someone is going to shoot up a public place with a few handguns. They have two but want another one and a shotgun. So they purchase it. The 10 day wait may make them take pause? That would allow them to keep arguing the whole "cool down" point.

Someone tell me false scenarios like that aren't allowed in real courts.
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  #157  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:34 PM
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I agree that limiting firearms purchases to 30 in any one day is fair.

Of course.

Because if I'm buying guns that I intend to resell to the cartels or gangsters I'm going to buy them from Turner's and make sure that they are all registered in my name.
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  #158  
Old 12-25-2011, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyathyrio View Post
I do see one potential defense the state can use, and likely they could be very successful with it. All they have to do is claim that the current gun owners database is so inaccurate and full of errors that they cannot confirm if an individual currently owns or has ever purchased a gun.

Brier patch. Please throw us into it.

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  #159  
Old 12-25-2011, 2:00 AM
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A job well done! Now, can we work on the high caps magazine?
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  #160  
Old 12-25-2011, 3:50 AM
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This one is just ONE of the reasons I contribute to CGF.

Thanks for going to the mat for us law abiding Californians.

-178S

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