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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:32 PM
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Just saw the email. Woot !!!!!
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  #82  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rossi357 View Post
Would a handgun bought in 1983 show up as registered in the current system?
If you don't have anything in the system, you could vol reg one.
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  #83  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Yankee Clipper View Post
I don't suppose Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., and his buddy Mr. Obama, who both hail from the Chicago area and are bonafide members of that corrupt political machine, would deign to impede anything that might block voter fraud. But now that those two have control of the Justice Department, they are using recently passed, and constitutionally questionable voting laws, to support voter fraud.
The Supreme Court has already said that states may require valid ID to vote. Holder and Obummer are just hoping to sneak through voting the graveyard one more time (November 2012) before the courts toss out their objections.

Getting back on topic this law suit is great news. I have no doubt that we'll lose in district court just because of the ongoing judicial rebellion against the 2nd Amendment but don't see how the 9th doesn't side with us. I'm guessing 18-24 months.
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  #84  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:36 PM
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Nice!

CGF steamroller keeps on steamrollin'
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  #85  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaLiberal View Post
This made me laugh pretty good.

So you DO know that there are those if us who look forward to reading the results of your skills at highlighting potential issues with or defects in our 2nd Amendment lawsuits.
Well, this case appears to be a nice narrow challenge. The best thing about it is that I see no real way the state can even argue a rational basis for the 10 day ban against people who already have firearms registered to them. I'm sure they'll come up with something lame that the district court will buy, and I'm sure the 9th Circuit will (in the relatively likely event we get an anti-gun panel) do its level best to find some reason to uphold the 10 day ban, but I have a great deal of trouble envisioning the Supreme Court buying into it.

Sadly, I can envision the Supreme Court denying cert in the event this should make it there, but that depends greatly on the set of cases already in front of them as well as where things are as regards 2A jurisprudence at that point.

Even so, that is something the Right People had to have accounted for when they timed this.


And so, I'm cautiously optimistic about this one. In any other venue, this would simply be a slamdunk. Here in California, even this is going to be a fight, but it's so lopsided against the antis that it's hard even for me to envision us losing it.


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But certainly this in not a "shift in strategy." There are already similar CalGuns suits brought over the last few years. This is surely a continuation of ongoing strategy.
That's entirely possible.
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  #86  
Old 12-23-2011, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaLiberal View Post
There are already similar CalGuns suits brought over the last few years. This is surely a continuation of ongoing strategy.
This case is right on time for an old schedule that's been there a while. After it's over, remind me and I'll explain. Hint - this might win a little faster than usual...

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  #87  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This case is right on time for an old schedule that's been there a while. After it's over, remind me and I'll explain. Hint - this might win a little faster than usual...-Gene
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  #88  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:10 PM
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Great job CGF and SAF
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  #89  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This case is right on time for an old schedule that's been there a while. After it's over, remind me and I'll explain. Hint - this might win a little faster than usual...

-Gene
How fast are we talking here?
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  #90  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:32 PM
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Merry Christmas to all CA gun owners! Let that steamroller keep on going!
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  #91  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:40 PM
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I have an idea for the first toy that should be sold in the CGF store just in time for next Christmas......A Steamroller. For the children of course.

Bravo.
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  #92  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspec5vz View Post
How fast are we talking here?
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  #93  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspec5vz View Post
How fast are we talking here?

It takes as long as it takes....

I would have guessed a year or two, three years at the most, but we've just read here that perhaps it will only take a year.

Which makes me think that the smart money is on not having to go to the US Supreme Court to get a final ruling.

No one knows for sure how long this will take. Stick around and find out. And send in your donations to CalGuns Foundation to speed things up a bit.
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  #94  
Old 12-23-2011, 8:55 PM
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feelin' warm and fuzzy... warm and fuzzy...
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  #95  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:14 PM
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Hey Liberals.....Santa's got a present for you!!



Thanks CGF, and Plaintiffs, for making this a special holiday season
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  #96  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:18 PM
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I love you guys.
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  #97  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:25 PM
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YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING! Thank you! Everyone who donates to help make this work is amazing too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS View Post
Holy crap, this is priceless (reading the complaint):

I never thought of calling the "waiting period" a ban. But this complaint hits the nail right on the head. It's nothing more than a temporary ban.

I'm going to start calling it a 10-day ban now instead of waiting period.

^^ I'm with this, because that's what it REALLY is.

Even if the state could try and argue that "though you at one time might be in the system as having a registered firearm, you might have sold it or be no longer in possession of one now." I don't see any opposing argument at all in bringing in an already owned functioning firearm to the dealer which they can certify and sign off on as proof of pre-ownership to nix the contradiction of the second or any foregoing "heat of passion" 10 day ban(s).
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  #98  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:46 PM
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This is another example of Progressive Libritarianism in action. A small incremental step taken to move the ball a bit closer to a distant goal line.

The Progressive Socialists used to be on offense, but now we have the ball and are driving. As long as we have our end goal in mind ( Vermont style gun laws perhaps???), we can keep working our way forward.

The Right People were smart enough to take a small bite out of the 10 day wait instead of challenging it all at once. Bravo! Well played gentlemen! This is how we are going to eat the elephant.

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  #99  
Old 12-23-2011, 9:49 PM
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Well I was expecting my CGF challenge coin purchase to result in more litigation, I didn't know it would happen so quickly.

Keep it up!
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  #100  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mbuna View Post
I have an idea for the first toy that should be sold in the CGF store just in time for next Christmas......A Steamroller. For the children of course.
Oh, it is on. Great idea.

-Brandon
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  #101  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GOEX FFF View Post
Even if the state could try and argue that "though you at one time might be in the system as having a registered firearm, you might have sold it or be no longer in possession of one now." I don't see any opposing argument at all in bringing in an already owned functioning firearm to the dealer which they can certify and sign off on as proof of pre-ownership to nix the contradiction of the second or any foregoing "heat of passion" 10 day ban(s).
Actually, it is very unlikely that in the case of handguns you would have sold it without the state knowing - possible, but unlikely.

Personally, I don't think that this battle will be particularly hard - because no matter what level of scrutiny is applied, the second and all subsequent waits fail. Since they serve little to no purpose, there is no rationale for infringing upon what is not a protected constitutional right.

If the AG is smart, she will simply concede this one - there is always the chance that a court may go beyond what is being asked and find ALL waits unconstitutional. My guess is this is what Brown would have done.

Too bad it's not in effect now, I am just finishing my 10 wait on an LC9.
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  #102  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:09 PM
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Great news for Christmas, and just in time to celebrate the end of my 10 day ban!

Feeling one helluva lot better about those automatic payroll deductions to CGF right now.
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  #103  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:16 PM
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Niceeee Go Get em!!!!
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  #104  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:21 PM
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Awesome! boy, I wish I could have been spared half of the trips to a distant FFL to trade/purchase firearms.
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  #105  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:02 PM
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Sweet!!!!! Way to go GCF!!!!

With the state as broke as it is I cant really see the 10 day wait standing up much longer.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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  #106  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:08 PM
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Man. I am getting way more than my money's worth from the CGF crew.

Amazing.

(just finished grad school... will have more to give soon!)
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  #107  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomb_on_bus View Post
Sweet!!!!! Way to go GCF!!!!

With the state as broke as it is I cant really see the 10 day wait standing up much longer.
You never know. This state can be damned stubborn. Great example is the work done that got us in the hole to begin with. No matter who told the state that they couldn't keep spending what they were spending they kept on it anyway. The people running this state are the definition of insanity.

I also like this quote by Einstein. "An empty stomach is not a good political adviser."
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  #108  
Old 12-24-2011, 1:46 AM
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CGF For the win
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  #109  
Old 12-24-2011, 4:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Well, this case appears to be a nice narrow challenge. The best thing about it is that I see no real way the state can even argue a rational basis for the 10 day ban against people who already have firearms registered to them. I'm sure they'll come up with something lame that the district court will buy, and I'm sure the 9th Circuit will (in the relatively likely event we get an anti-gun panel) do its level best to find some reason to uphold the 10 day ban, but I have a great deal of trouble envisioning the Supreme Court buying into it.
The District Court and the 9th Circuit might use some lame legal reasoning like:
Since the Supreme Court ruled Second Amendment applies only to guns in the home and buying a gun that might be used ouside the home is enough to justify the [ir]rational basis underlying the 10-day waiting period to purchase a gun no matter how many are already previously owned.

I don't expect any good result coming out of the full 9th Circuit on a gun related case no matter how obvious it is. We might get lucky with a 3-Judge Panel but that posative result would be squashed by a ruling of the full 9th Circuit. If so, will it make it the Supreme Court?

A more important question is what type of judges will be on the Supreme Court by the time cases like this make it there?
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  #110  
Old 12-24-2011, 5:23 AM
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... CA may just throw in the towel and start using NCIS checks like most other states
Too much Eggnog???
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  #111  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safewaysecurity View Post
Yay! This.SHOULD be rather easy to smack down since it really doesn't even survive rational basis.
Oh, you silly boy!!
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  #112  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:22 AM
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Or, we could get a ruling that says, you already own a gun, so what's the big hurry.
The "worst possible scenerio" posters here are having a bad influence on me.
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  #113  
Old 12-24-2011, 8:34 AM
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Well done guys! Keep up the good work.
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  #114  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Rossi357 View Post
Or, we could get a ruling that says, you already own a gun, so what's the big hurry.
And pretty soon after that we'll start seeing the anti-arsenal laws. How many guns do you really need for self defense anyway? I'm only half kidding haha. The second waiting period does seem like a decent target but the fact that you already have a gun or guns means it's less of a burden on the core right, less rigorous review, easier to justify the regulation, etc.
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  #115  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
And pretty soon after that we'll start seeing the anti-arsenal laws. How many guns do you really need for self defense anyway? I'm only half kidding haha. The second waiting period does seem like a decent target but the fact that you already have a gun or guns means it's less of a burden on the core right, less rigorous review, easier to justify the regulation, etc.

What's the governments compelling interest in the 10 day wait/cooling off period/ban for someone who already owns a firearm?

Last edited by taperxz; 12-24-2011 at 9:57 AM..
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  #116  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This case is right on time for an old schedule that's been there a while. After it's over, remind me and I'll explain. Hint - this might win a little faster than usual...

-Gene
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  #117  
Old 12-24-2011, 9:56 AM
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That was a long time ago- I'm not sure of my facts.... but as I recall.... Wally world stopped selling guns in CA because one of their stores sold a shotgun to a person, and did not enforce the 10 day BAN. The customer went out of the store with his new shotgun, to his GF's/wifes whatever and shot her.

Because of this type of incident, I can concede to a short BAN as a cooling off period for a FIRST TIME PURCHASER. Maybe more like 5? days?

However, for *YEARS* I've explained to people just how stupid our laws are using this 10 day BAN as the perfect example. I already own a number of guns. If I wanted to do something stupid with a gun, I have a number to choose from... Why should I have to wait 10 days to get ANOTHER one?


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  #118  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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Am I understanding correctly that because of the non-sensical nature of the law, that it shouldn't even pass a rational basis test?
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  #119  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:28 AM
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Sometimes I think Gene, Bill, Jason, Brandon and CGF in general are just one big multi-part jolly Santa
That's why my avatar never took off his Santa hat in 2011... and it looks like he'll be keeping it for 2012.
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  #120  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by postal View Post
That was a long time ago- I'm not sure of my facts.... but as I recall.... Wally world stopped selling guns in CA because one of their stores sold a shotgun to a person, and did not enforce the 10 day BAN. The customer went out of the store with his new shotgun, to his GF's/wifes whatever and shot her.

Because of this type of incident, I can concede to a short BAN as a cooling off period for a FIRST TIME PURCHASER. Maybe more like 5? days?

However, for *YEARS* I've explained to people just how stupid our laws are using this 10 day BAN as the perfect example. I already own a number of guns. If I wanted to do something stupid with a gun, I have a number to choose from... Why should I have to wait 10 days to get ANOTHER one?


OUTSTANDING WORK CGF!!!!!!
Great job
If you go out and buy a gun to kill someone, that is pre-meditated, not "heat of the moment". A "cooling off period" will not make a difference for a premeditated act. Even if it did, that is no reason to infringe the rights of a person to prevent an act that probably will not happen.

Its like a ten day wait to speak, because you might yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

The amount of time is also an insane arbitrary decision, if you concede that a waiting period is appropriate, but 10 days is too much, and 5 is all that is necessary, then someone will counter your argument with "5 days is not enough". All because you conceded waiting periods work. They do not work, get it out of your head
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