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  #1  
Old 12-12-2011, 7:31 PM
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Default Remington 700 ~ .308 or 30-06?

Lately I've been considering next rifle... and thought I was settled on .308 - recently contemplating Remington 700 and undecided between .308 and 30-06...

Not necessarily for hunting (other than occasional/rare out of state trips)... primarily for long range target and just to have.

Does .308 shoot flatter?... I've shot 25-06 and it's the flattest shooting gun I've shot... I've never shot .308 or 30-06

Or should I throw .270 in the mix?

Any suggestions?
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Old 12-12-2011, 7:32 PM
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.30-06 will push the same bullets faster than a .308 can simply by having a larger case capacity. Same bullet being pushed faster will give a flatter trajectory.

I picked the '06 for this reason and have started working with the 208 A-Max but want to try the new Berger 215 Hybrid Targets.

The issue is there are no heavy barrel factory '06 rifles. It isn't much of an issue if you don't plan on shooting strings of rapid fire.
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Old 12-12-2011, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
.30-06 will push the same bullets faster than a .308 can simply by having a larger case capacity. Same bullet being pushed faster will give a flatter trajectory.

I picked the '06 for this reason and have started working with the 208 A-Max but want to try the new Berger 215 Hybrid Targets.

The issue is there are no heavy barrel factory '06 rifles. It isn't much of an issue if you don't plan on shooting strings of rapid fire.
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thanks - I tried edit/delete in other thread, wouldnt let me delete

are you happy with your 30-06?... I dont expect to do any rapid fire (kinda hard I think with this rifle)... I'm somewhat familiar with the ballistics difference (not entirely though)... but I'm completely unfamiliar with ammo price and availability differences...
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Old 12-12-2011, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
thanks - I tried edit/delete in other thread, wouldnt let me delete

are you happy with your 30-06?... I dont expect to do any rapid fire (kinda hard I think with this rifle)... I'm somewhat familiar with the ballistics difference (not entirely though)... but I'm completely unfamiliar with ammo price and availability differences...
I have only put 20 rounds through my 700 and wasn't even able to zero it. The wind kept knocking over my targets.

Factory .30-06 is pretty weak. It barely edges out .308 Win. There is little factory match .30-06 available.

HSM loads the 208 A-Max and claims 2,700 FPS out of a 26" barrel.
http://www.snipercentral.com/hsmammo...phtml?hsmid=35

I reload my .30-06 because I have a Garand so I was loading .30-06 anyways.
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Old 12-12-2011, 7:51 PM
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I have both. Each for a different purpose. The 700p is a tax driver at any range but to heavy to lug around all day.
The 700CDL in .30-06 is my hunting rifle. It also shoots very accurately out to long distances on a flatter ballistics, with more energy,,,IMHO better for a clean 1 shot kill on a hunt.
I like you wanted both a .30 caliber target and hunting rifle... You will eventually get both do the question is what one first.
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Old 12-12-2011, 8:34 PM
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^^^ I think you're right - ultimately I'll probably get both, but which one for now

Ironically, a while back someone started a thread about which would be the next popular rifle (I think he said fan boy rifle)... I said .308 sniper - and it was next on my list... and even though .308 seems to be getting a lot of attention lately - recently I'm somewhat favoring 30-06...

I wont be reloading - I'll have to search around and see what the ammo price difference is.
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Old 12-12-2011, 9:01 PM
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.308. Unless you want to push 220 grain bullets, the 308 was designed to get more efficient use of modern powders. Up o 175 grain bullets it gives you a shorter receiver and world class accuracy.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:32 PM
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Also can't you shoot the 7.62 alternative out of the .308 700? Might not be good for groups but decent enough for practicing on steel for cheap.
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Old 12-13-2011, 5:44 AM
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My first centerfire rifle was a 30.06. I bought it almost exactly 40 years ago. Remington 700 ADL. It sat for 18 years in a safe only taken out cleaned and oiled yearly. Now that the kid is off to college I've taken up shooting, hunting and reloading again. Collected alot of used reloading equipment at an estate sale, and bought some new dies and other components. My goal has been to load for accuracy. Now some may wonder if a 40 year old hunting rifle that cost me less than $50.00 new with a scope would be up to the task. Ok, so I bought a more powerfull used scope here on Calguns and mounted it using the same Weaver rings and bases. I started loading different weight bullets and shooting paper. My back yard happens to accomodate a 200 yard range so I can shoot alot, even straight from the reloading bench. My particular rifle (700 ADL 22" bbl.) loves 165 - 168 grain bullets with muzzle velocities between 2475 and 2725 fps. using IMR 4064. I'm trying to get accurate loads in heavier bullets and have even switched powders to IMR 4350 for those. The 168 grainers are still the most consistant however. I also reload for my cousin's 308 Savage. He pretty much only uses it for hunting so I load 168 grain Nosler partitions in front of 44 gr. of Varget. The first time he used them he shot a hog at 240 yards in the head. His comment on the bullet's performance "these things do some damage".

I own 3 scoped centerfire rifles, the first was the .06 700 ADL, my second, a used 6mm rem. 700 BDL (40 years old also) and a recent aquisition, .243 Sako. The Sako is nice but was pretty expensive. The 2 Remington 700's combined cost me less than half whats in the Sako. Accuracy? you be the judge here's a pic: left to right .243 @ 100 yds., 30.06 @ 100 yrds., 6mm rem. @ 200 yrds,)Attachment 126317

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  #10  
Old 12-13-2011, 7:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distro View Post
Also can't you shoot the 7.62 alternative out of the .308 700? Might not be good for groups but decent enough for practicing on steel for cheap.
Is this true?
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Old 12-13-2011, 7:59 AM
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If you're mainly going to target shoot then get 308.

30-06 if you're going to hunt large game. 308 is more then enough for deer, pigs, and most north American game.

300 win mag if you just want a long range factory rifle that you don't plan to shoot much. 308 if you want a long range rifle that you can shoot all day.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2011, 3:23 PM
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For target purposes, the 308 will do just about everything a 30-06 will until you get into bullets over 175 grains. The 30-06 has the advantage of case capacity and the ability to shoot heavier bullets at longer range. Either cartridge is readily available everywhere.
If you want to shoot dime sized groups, there is more data out there for 308 load combinations and yes, 7.62x51 NATO ammo is the same, just loaded to a lower maximum pressure.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2011, 6:57 PM
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thanks for all the info guys...

sadly I still can't decide

I'm leaning towards .308 (and pretty sure that's what I'll get)... but I'm so interested in 30-06 too... I guess I'll have two at some point - but since .308 has been on my "next list" for a while, I think that's what it will be.

Obviously already have my "next" list after that
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Old 12-13-2011, 7:23 PM
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Get the .308 first...cheaper ammo...and will take care of your target rifle needs. I will admit that the .30-06 has quite a kick and after 25-30 rounds can feel it in my shoulder. not so with the .308 and the M1A 7.62 has little or no recoil at all.

In building my collection I am attempting to get lever action revolver and bolt action and semi auto in the same calibers in .38/.357, .44mag, .308/7.62, .223/5.56...

Next on my list are a .45ACP and 9mm Carbide rifles.
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2011, 8:00 PM
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^^^ good info thanks
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Old 12-13-2011, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
^^^ I think you're right - ultimately I'll probably get both, but which one for now

Ironically, a while back someone started a thread about which would be the next popular rifle (I think he said fan boy rifle)... I said .308 sniper - and it was next on my list... and even though .308 seems to be getting a lot of attention lately - recently I'm somewhat favoring 30-06...

I wont be reloading - I'll have to search around and see what the ammo price difference is.
I would suggest the .308 first. You mentioned prior that you very rarely travel out of state to go hunt. If you have not fired either round before the .308 is a great round to learn long range shooting with. Also there is a much great abundance of ammo and reload data for the .308 giving you the ability to tailor your ammo to your needs much better than a 30-06. Just my 2 cents
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Old 12-13-2011, 9:01 PM
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Have an '06 and also a .308

For sustained shooting I prefer the .308 because of less recoil. I'm getting older and feel it more. I'd only go with an '06 if you absolutely have to shoot heavier bullets.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:01 PM
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You still can't decide because you haven't considered the 7mm-08. It's the 308 necked down to 7mm. Awsome in many ways!

If your main purpose is target shooting I would go with 223? 308 ammo is too darn expensive for plinking.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:36 PM
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i'd go with .308
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Sailor View Post
My first centerfire rifle was a 30.06. I bought it almost exactly 40 years ago. Remington 700 ADL. It sat for 18 years in a safe only taken out cleaned and oiled yearly. Now that the kid is off to college I've taken up shooting, hunting and reloading again. Collected alot of used reloading equipment at an estate sale, and bought some new dies and other components. My goal has been to load for accuracy. Now some may wonder if a 40 year old hunting rifle that cost me less than $50.00 new with a scope would be up to the task. Ok, so I bought a more powerfull used scope here on Calguns and mounted it using the same Weaver rings and bases. I started loading different weight bullets and shooting paper. My back yard happens to accomodate a 200 yard range so I can shoot alot, even straight from the reloading bench. My particular rifle (700 ADL 22" bbl.) loves 165 - 168 grain bullets with muzzle velocities between 2475 and 2725 fps. using IMR 4064. I'm trying to get accurate loads in heavier bullets and have even switched powders to IMR 4350 for those. The 168 grainers are still the most consistant however. I also reload for my cousin's 308 Savage. He pretty much only uses it for hunting so I load 168 grain Nosler partitions in front of 44 gr. of Varget. The first time he used them he shot a hog at 240 yards in the head. His comment on the bullet's performance "these things do some damage".

I own 3 scoped centerfire rifles, the first was the .06 700 ADL, my second, a used 6mm rem. 700 BDL (40 years old also) and a recent aquisition, .243 Sako. The Sako is nice but was pretty expensive. The 2 Remington 700's combined cost me less than half whats in the Sako. Accuracy? you be the judge here's a pic: left to right .243 @ 100 yds., 30.06 @ 100 yrds., 6mm rem. @ 200 yrds,)Attachment 126317
You shot each coin one time so how would one calculat the accuracy of the rifles?
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:21 AM
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I agree with .308 first. If that doesnt do it for you just go .300 WM
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Old 12-14-2011, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittty View Post
You still can't decide because you haven't considered the 7mm-08.
The 7mm-08 is my current favorite centerfire cartridge. I have it chambered in my current favorite centerfire rifle: a South Carolina Winchester 70 Featherweight Classic. The combination is my hunting rifle "Excalibur", for now.

OP: If you do not hand-load, I would not spring for a 7mm-08 as a casual shooting rifle. Factory offerings are meager compared to the .308. There are a lot of US police agencies that use the .308 win in their rifles. They, mostly, have to shoot factory loads. There has been so much experimentation with the .308, it's unreal.

Yes, it is safe to shoot surplus 7.62 NATO ammunition out of a .308 win rifle. The ammo should be inspected and purchased from a reputable source.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
Lately I've been considering next rifle... and thought I was settled on .308 - recently contemplating Remington 700 and undecided between .308 and 30-06...

Not necessarily for hunting (other than occasional/rare out of state trips)... primarily for long range target and just to have.

Does .308 shoot flatter?... I've shot 25-06 and it's the flattest shooting gun I've shot... I've never shot .308 or 30-06

Or should I throw .270 in the mix?

Any suggestions?
What is "long range" in your context? If you are concerned primarily with how "flat shooting" your rifle is, you can either scale up to a higher pressure .30 cal chambering or scale down to any of the flat shooting/lower impulse calibers that keep you out of the boutique short magnums and the often overpriced "traditional" long belted magnums like the .300 Winchester Magnum or the Weatherby Magnums.

If you have no specific hunting or competition plans and you are still fairly new to the sport, I'd suggest a short action caliber (based on the .308 Winchester case) with a lower recoil, flatter trajectory and good potential for a handy hunting rifle for game up to deer size, the .243 Winchester is a good choice. It has loads for varmints in the light 50 grain range flying 4100 FPS and long, heavy bullets of 100-110 grains for deer hunting moving at around 3000 FPS. .243 is so popular that you can buy it in virtually any gun store in the world. It is the second most popular short-action caliber not just in the US, but worldwide.

The next load up is the relatively new .260 Remington (again, same case as .308), not nearly as commonplace, but there are some great 6.5 mm loads for dear hunting and has most of the same benefits as the .243 but with heavier bullets which can push up the size of the game you can cleanly harvest within reasonable ranges (generally 400 yards or less). The .260 was meant to re-create most of the ballistic potential of the Swedish 6.5 mm, one of the best cartridges general purpose calibers ever created (and over a century old). It's still not able to push the heavier loads at the higher velocities the old 55 mm long case can push, but it's 85-90% of the way there. Great 6.5 mm bullets with very high BC are available that provide very good energy downrange, which can compensate somewhat for the lower energy at the muzzle compared to the bigger .308.

The 7mm-08, which is a lighter bucking load than most of the commercial .308 loads, shoots a bit flatter but can be used for game up to Elk size with careful shot placement. Only somewhat more commonplace than .260, but the third most popular behind .308 Win and .243 Win. Excellent 7 mm bullets are around for handloaders with very high BC (.308 bullets are comparitively blunt) that can extend its reach, resulting in more energy downstream than the .308 at the same distance.

Making a .30 cal fly flatter means more propellent, more streamlined bullets and heavier recoil. Consider that many sniper teams use premium match quality .308 loads to hit targets at 1000 yards, the potential for good accuracy and long range is already there.

.30-06 will let you shoot heavier loads at higher velocities over longer distances, but the cost is greater recoil and somewhat reduced number of rifle models in a long action (.30-06 is "long action"). .30-06 is the all-American .30 cal and remains the most popular of all rifle calibers, hands down. Elmer Keith's favorite round was the .270 Winchester, a necked down .30-06 with a 6.8 mm bullet. It can push a 150 grain bullet at 2900 FPS or a 130 grain bullet at 3200 FPS. Your .25-06 Remington is another necked down .30-06 designed primarily for bullets up to 130 grain at over 3000 FPS. The .270 is the second most popular of the long-action behind the .30-06, but not as popular as the .308 or .243.

If I were planning to hunt Moose at near 400 yards, I'd prefer a .30-06 to the .308 for the heavier built bullets and/or the higher velocities that are possible. If I only wanted to put holes in paper at 300 yards with an option to take deer next year, I'd go for the .243 to encourage practice, gain confidence and have a rifle I could go anywhere with and have some expectation of reasonably priced ammo being available.

Good luck,

R

Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 12-14-2011 at 3:49 PM..
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:59 AM
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The problem with the .243 Win and .260 Rem is that factory rifles don't have the twist rate necessary to stabalize the long high BC bullets. Rifles chambered in .30-06 almost always have the 1:10 twist needed for the high BC bullets. That means you can use them and hit the longer ranges without needing a new barrel.
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
The problem with the .243 Win and .260 Rem is that factory rifles don't have the twist rate necessary to stabalize the long high BC bullets. Rifles chambered in .30-06 almost always have the 1:10 twist needed for the high BC bullets. That means you can use them and hit the longer ranges without needing a new barrel.
Good point. It is something to be mindful of when choosing a rifle. Rifles sold as "varmint" rifles are generally intended only for the lighter/shorter projectiles that do just fine with 1:10-1:14" twists. A rifle in the 6 mm/6.5 mm are at their most flexible with 1:8-1:9" twists, giving you a better "all arounder."

R
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Old 12-14-2011, 2:47 PM
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if you aren't reloading and plan to mostly punch paper, definitely .308 for ammo availability.
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Old 04-06-2012, 2:57 PM
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Fired high Expert with both in USMC. 308 shoots flatter but lacks "punch" at distances over +/- 200yds. More variety available in 30-06 ammo makes it good for almost any game or at any distance. So, please consider this:

WTS Custom practically bombproof Remington 700 ADL 30-06 modified to withstand Alaska weather & terrain. In storage for 25+ years while living outside Alaska then outside the U.S. Maybe (maybe!) 50rnds through it.

Hard nickle finish, fiberglass stock, Schilen bbl, mag-na-ported, Leopold 3x9 scope, steel base rings, retractable/extendable bipod, padded sling, Pachmayr recoil pad, trigger job. Lockable hard case included.

Cost $1,800 in 198, still like new & that's my number now. Have the original receipt listing all mods & cost. If you're close enough I'll include 4 boxes of ammo. I'm in Sonoma.
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Old 04-06-2012, 3:57 PM
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Just flip a coin, it's that simple!
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Old 04-06-2012, 4:20 PM
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If you are new to mid range/ long range shooting, .308 is perfect. Don't worry about flat trajectory. Flat trajectory= poor barrel life. You are talking about 1500 rds in .243 and 2500 rds with a .260. The .308 will last 8000 rds due to the larger diameter of the barrel and moderate pressure. You will learn a lot about shooting in 8000 rds. 30-06 is a good round also with plenty of barrel life but a whole day of shooting 30-06 will leave you sore. Realistic range of .308 is 900 yards where the 30-06 is about 1200 yards. Are you really going to shoot that far? .308 has so many more options available in reloading components and match ammo than the 30-06.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:12 PM
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Everything I've read leads me to believe the 308 was a more accurate round. Most of the NRA comp target shooters moved away from the 30-06 to the 308 for reason. May not have the range, but a faster found does not mean more accurate until... the bullet drops sub-sonic.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:10 PM
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+ another vote for the .308 Win.
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Old 04-07-2012, 5:08 AM
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.308 is cheaper and more available. It's got less recoil but doesn't sacrifice enough power/speed to not be a viable deer cartridge. It's in my top 5 of bread and butter cartridges. You'll always be able to find and afford it and you can do a lot with it. I like some of the flatter shooting rounds especially if you're going to do is hunt with it. But if you're pretty much never going to hunt, and just want a bolt gun for shooting paper, I see almost no reason to ever step outside of .223 and .308. .223 if you want something that's REALLY cheap, and .308 if you need a bit of kick for it to be interesting but don't want to pay an arm and a leg.

I mean to be fair, the .30-06 is still pretty standard stuff but it's just that the .308 will always be cheaper. I'd steer clear of 7mm-08, .270, .300 WSM etc if all you're going to do is shoot paper.
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Old 04-07-2012, 6:31 AM
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From cheap surplus to match grade factory, 308 is a great choice for target shoots. You can still hunt fine with it. Besides, you can shoot a whole lot more without hurting your wallet.
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Old 04-07-2012, 7:12 AM
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I picked the 700 in -06 because I could load it light or heavy depending on what I am trying to do, all the way down to about 120-130 grain and up to 208ish making it a very versatile platform. As far as availability of -06, any Walmart or other half ***** gun store will most likely have -06 due to it's past popularity for hunting and when it was used in the military.
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Old 04-07-2012, 7:22 AM
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30-06 can be found for the same price as 308. If the rifle is going to used for Hunting you don't want to use cheap milsurp ammo anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:42 AM
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Using factory ammo, there is no meaningful difference between .308win and .30-06
They will be pushing the same bullets at damn near the same speed.

Using factory ammo, there is little difference in ammo cost.

Whichever one I found first as a deal on a used rifle.
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Old 04-07-2012, 2:51 PM
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You have LOTS more choices of ammo available in .308
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Old 04-07-2012, 8:09 PM
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I keep seeing more people posting that there is more ammo and more choices available in .308, however when I go to any store that sells ammo I see more 150 and 165 grain 30.06 on the shelves than I do anything else vice .22lr and 9mm.
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