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  #1  
Old 02-04-2017, 4:04 PM
twistedpixel twistedpixel is offline
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Default DROS error, am I now screwed?

Hope this is the right place for this question, apologies if not.

I'm a non-US resident, here on a non-immigrant visa (E2 which currently expires in 2021). I've been here 4 years, own a house etc etc.

I've jumped through all the hoops necessary to purchase a gun and yesterday I went down to my local dealer and did the paperwork on a Glock 19.

I was also at Dicks yesterday with a buddy of mine and while talking to the gun salesman he told me that the Maverick 88 was a fantastic option for $200. A few of my friends have shotguns but I needed to do some research before buying.

I researched it overnight and went back this morning to buy one and filled out the paperwork, however it wouldn't go through. The guy wasn't sure what the problem was and said I would have to wait for his boss who might be more knowledgeable....Tuesday!!

I left the store with a copy of the form and went through every question doing legal research and found the problem.

Question 12 d 1 says
Are you an Alien who has been admitted to the United states under a non immigrant visa?

The answer to this is Yes

Question 12 d 2 says
If the answer is Yes, do you fall within any of the exceptions stated in the instructions

I put No, when I should have put Yes (the exception being that I am not prohibited from owning a gun because I have a hunting license)

I went back to the store and re-did the application. It went through, however 2 hours later they phoned me up and said that because I had put No in the first application, the second one couldn't pass because there was already a failed entry in the system and I would NEVER be able to buy a gun from Dicks again.

So, I went back to my local gun store and checked the form I had submitted yesterday and I had put No on that form too, when I should have put Yes.

So, my question is this...since I have a failed DROS (according to Dicks) on record, does that mean I am denied and will never be able to purchase a gun?

The shotgun failure will cost me a re-stocking fee, as will the Glock so I'd be $300 out of pocket and wont be able to purchase anything.

My local dealer didn't know and said I would have to wait and see if the Glock Purchase/DROS gets rejected.

does anyone know what happens here if you make a mistake on the form? Am I screwed?
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2017, 12:10 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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I don't think you are totally screwed, but it may take some work and time to unravel the mess.

1. Did you pay for the 88 and or Glock with a credit card? If you did, immediately dispute the transaction with the issuing bank.

2. Talk with the seller or is it sellers. Tell them that you realize that you had made a mistake in filling out the forms, but that there is no need to restock the guns if they will only speak to their DOJ contact about the mistake and that you need to correct the form.

3. Whenever approval is denied, DOJ usually sends the purchaser a letter stating the reason for denial and giving you the opportunity to state why they are in error. At that time you can explain how you made a mistake in completing the form, and if it applies that English is not your native language, and provide them with the information documenting the exception. Include a copy of your hunting license as well as providing the details of it in your letter.

I am curious as to how you completed the application. Did a store clerk read the questions to you and did you answer them or what. Did you tell the clerk that you had some difficulty with understanding the questions and completing the forms?
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Old 02-05-2017, 6:04 AM
Cheburashka Cheburashka is offline
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Dicks salesman is an idiot. Why did he put a DROS thorough when you answered no on 12d2?? Did he not check what you put down?

I'm in the same situation as you and made the same mistake on my first gun purchase at Big5 a few years ago, salesman looked it over and made me get a hunting license and redo the DROS form.

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  #4  
Old 02-05-2017, 7:47 AM
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Your answers on the Form 4473 are immaterial to the DROS. The Form 4473 is stored in paper form with the FFL and is not used for the DROS.

What should have happened is the salesman should have looked at your Form 4473, noticed that Question 12.d.2 was answered "No," and said, "I'm sorry, sir, I cannot sell you a firearm." He should not have run the DROS.

So there is another problem holding up the DROS, not your answers on the Form 4473.
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Old 02-05-2017, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
Your answers on the Form 4473 are immaterial to the DROS. The Form 4473 is stored in paper form with the FFL and is not used for the DROS.

What should have happened is the salesman should have looked at your Form 4473, noticed that Question 12.d.2 was answered "No," and said, "I'm sorry, sir, I cannot sell you a firearm." He should not have run the DROS.

So there is another problem holding up the DROS, not your answers on the Form 4473.
This ^^^ 4473 doesn't affect DROS at all. You could accidentally check the box YES for convicted of a felony, and if the person doing the DROS does not catch it, it will not affect the DROS.

And in before someone else notes that reading and following instructions on Govt forms is sort of important. Don't rush it.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 02-05-2017 at 7:53 AM..
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Old 02-05-2017, 8:05 AM
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I bought a big stack of ARs and a couple of pistols on one DROS a year or so ago. The FFL accidentally clicked "Yes" that I was a felon, and then submitted the dros. It was his first DROS submission for his new FFL and business. Woops. Called DOJ, they said no problem, just cancel the DROS and resubmit.

I've bought dozens of guns since and have had no issues.
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Old 02-05-2017, 8:43 AM
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OP, did you already get denied or are you just assuming you're going to get denied because of the error?

As mentioned above, ask the FFL to call the DOJ to correct the error. The staff at Dicks are idiots so don't listen to what they say. Good luck and keep us updated.
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Old 02-05-2017, 8:44 AM
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English is my first language. I'm from England!!.

The DROS at my local gun shop I filled in by hand and they went ahead and did it on their PC. In Dicks I filled in a form on the PC and when they went to submit it threw the error. Once we corrected the error it went through but they phoned me afterwards to tell me that due to the first failure, that would stay on my record with them and prevent me ever getting a gun through them again (Dicks in Morgan Hill). I've since spoken to them and they aren't going to charge me for anything. I can go in and get a full refund. I guess I misinterpreted the question is all. While I checked No, the did take a copy of my hunting license because they knew that this was a requirement for a non-resident and is the exception for 12 d 2.

My local gun shop are not as forgiving, if the DROS is denied there is a $125 fee.

If it gets rejected I can appeal and would expect a favourable outcome since it's just a checkbox and I meet all the requirements.
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Old 02-05-2017, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedpixel View Post
English is my first language. I'm from England!!.

The DROS at my local gun shop I filled in by hand and they went ahead and did it on their PC. In Dicks I filled in a form on the PC and when they went to submit it threw the error. Once we corrected the error it went through but they phoned me afterwards to tell me that due to the first failure, that would stay on my record with them and prevent me ever getting a gun through them again (Dicks in Morgan Hill). I've since spoken to them and they aren't going to charge me for anything. I can go in and get a full refund. I guess I misinterpreted the question is all. While I checked No, the did take a copy of my hunting license because they knew that this was a requirement for a non-resident and is the exception for 12 d 2.

My local gun shop are not as forgiving, if the DROS is denied there is a $125 fee.


If it gets rejected I can appeal and would expect a favourable outcome since it's just a checkbox and I meet all the requirements.
That seems harsh. Is that a restocking fee, I assume?
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Old 02-05-2017, 9:10 AM
twistedpixel twistedpixel is offline
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yes, restocking fee
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:09 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedpixel View Post
English is my first language. I'm from England!!.

The DROS at my local gun shop I filled in by hand and they went ahead and did it on their PC. In Dicks I filled in a form on the PC and when they went to submit it threw the error. Once we corrected the error it went through but they phoned me afterwards to tell me that due to the first failure, that would stay on my record with them and prevent me ever getting a gun through them again (Dicks in Morgan Hill). I've since spoken to them and they aren't going to charge me for anything. I can go in and get a full refund. I guess I misinterpreted the question is all. While I checked No, the did take a copy of my hunting license because they knew that this was a requirement for a non-resident and is the exception for 12 d 2.

My local gun shop are not as forgiving, if the DROS is denied there is a $125 fee.

If it gets rejected I can appeal and would expect a favourable outcome since it's just a checkbox and I meet all the requirements.
Being from England explains the confusion. It is still not clear what went down, so let's take it by gun store. As others have noted, the problem is on the Federal 4473 and not the DROS forms.

I wonder if what happened in both instances is that the DROS was submitted without a hitch, and each dealer later caught the problem on the 4473. It now sounds as though DOJ has yet to take any action on the LGS DROS, which would make sense if he dealer did nothing to cause it to be cancelled upon the dealer realizing the problem on the 4473. As for Dick's, my guess is that they haven't completely explained just what their problem was but I suspect there is a reason it is willing to give you a full refund. Most likely, someone reviewing the 4473 spotted the mistake a couple of hours after the DROS was submitted and Dick's did something to cancel the DROS with DOJ.

I would lean hard, but politely, on Dick's for a full explanation of what happened and since what they may have conveyed to DOJ may have botched up the LGS DROS and future purchases you may attempt.

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-05-2017 at 11:11 AM..
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2017, 12:04 PM
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The OP keeps saying he entered information on a PC at both shops. I've never seen anything like that before, so I wonder whether it's a special procedure for people on non-resident visas (I know Green Card holders don't have to do anything special).
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Old 02-05-2017, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
The OP keeps saying he entered information on a PC at both shops. I've never seen anything like that before, so I wonder whether it's a special procedure for people on non-resident visas (I know Green Card holders don't have to do anything special).
some shops use E-4473 software to populate the 4473. its not something special for just the OP.

I've done E-4473 at Bass Pro and at Faith Armory IIRC.
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Old 02-05-2017, 1:20 PM
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This issue is only "on record" with Dick's.

Do yourself a goddamned favor and NEVER shop there again, you should be fine at any other store.
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Old 02-05-2017, 1:27 PM
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A couple of stores in Rocklin use e-4473; Norcal Gunvault and Rocklin Armory. I do them all the time.
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Old 02-05-2017, 4:19 PM
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I guess its case of wait and see but I'll keep everyone updated and thank you all for your input
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Old 02-05-2017, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
some shops use E-4473 software to populate the 4473. its not something special for just the OP.

I've done E-4473 at Bass Pro and at Faith Armory IIRC.
Whoa. O brave new world . . .
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Old 02-16-2017, 6:32 AM
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Hi Folks,

so an update...good news.

I spoke with my local dealer yesterday as the 10 day period is now up and I should be able to collect my gun today (or would be able to if I wasn't in New York for the week) and they said the DROS went through just fine. the DOJ phoned them up and asked if I had a hunting license, which I do and is why I should have ticked yes for question 12 D 2. The shop said that I do and they have a copy...so..all good!!! Picking up my Glock on Saturday and Shotgun next Wednesday
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Old 02-16-2017, 6:41 AM
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Thanks for updating. The first thought when I see this thread was "oh, the FFL is screwed, not you"

Last edited by moonshade0227; 02-16-2017 at 6:51 AM..
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