Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:28 AM
Limeman's Avatar
Limeman Limeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NorCal - Voted for Trump!!
Posts: 228
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default AR upper/lower build question with new AR Law in 2017

Hey guys,

Hope this is in the correct forum...

Will it be legal to buy a lower - say a stripped lower - and DROS it before the end of the year and before the new AR law sets in- and then build it and buy an upper group later in 2017 to have a complete rifle?

What about buying a new upper group at some point in 2017 and swapping it into a lower you've had before the law?

Thanks for helping me with this.

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:52 AM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 6,614
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Must be a complete rifle in your posession before Jan 1 unless you are building a featureless or rimfire. You can't build up a rifle after Jan 1 with a BB in the hopes of registering.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:54 AM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,694
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limeman View Post
Hey guys,

Hope this is in the correct forum...

Will it be legal to buy a lower - say a stripped lower - and DROS it before the end of the year and before the new AR law sets in- and then build it and buy an upper group later in 2017 to have a complete rifle?

What about buying a new upper group at some point in 2017 and swapping it into a lower you've had before the law?

Thanks for helping me with this.

Cheers!
The simply answer is No. A stripped lower does not meet the definition of an AW and can't be registered as such. (There is no prohibition on changing uppers post 2016 on an AW registered in 2017.)
The buy stripped lower in 2016 and build in 2017 plan doesn't work and could potentially expose you to three felonies: 1) perjury on the AW registration form 2) assembling an unregistered AW and 3) possession of an unregistered AW. CADOJ knows people will try this. They don't need to catch everyone. All they need is one good test case charging someone with three felonies and make an example out of them. That victim will do time and pay a fine. Every news organization will make a big deal out of this.
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.

Last edited by Blade Gunner; 11-26-2016 at 10:58 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-26-2016, 11:11 AM
Limeman's Avatar
Limeman Limeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NorCal - Voted for Trump!!
Posts: 228
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Got that. So the only solution is to buy the stripped lower and then build it up fully and add a complete upper - all before Jan 1. Got it.

Lord have mercy I am so disliking this once fantastic state we live in.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-26-2016, 12:51 PM
Limeman's Avatar
Limeman Limeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NorCal - Voted for Trump!!
Posts: 228
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

One more QQ: Does a fully built lower meet the definition of AW such that it can be registered at some point in 2017?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-26-2016, 2:56 PM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 6,614
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

No.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-26-2016, 4:21 PM
BAJ475 BAJ475 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Butte County California
Posts: 1,033
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limeman View Post
One more QQ: Does a fully built lower meet the definition of AW such that it can be registered at some point in 2017?
As John Browning said, NO.

To be an assault weapon the firearm must be semiautomatic, centerfire and not have a fixed magazine and it must have one or more features, such as, a folding or collapsible stock, a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, a flash suppressor, or a forward pistol grip. The problem with a mere lower is that it might not be part of a centerfire or semiautomatic firearm, even it has a feature and a detachable magazine. While it might be possible to argue that a complete lower with a .223/5.56 magazine is centerfire, you still would not have established that it was part of a semiautomatic firearm without some type of an upper. For instance, if the barrel did not have a gas port, the firearm would not be semiautomatic. So a barrel with a gas port would seem to be an indispensable requirement.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-26-2016, 5:51 PM
SiegeX's Avatar
SiegeX SiegeX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 213
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

So if I have a completely stripped lower with a LPK and no upper, come Jan 1st 2017 my options are:

1) Buy an upper and build up the lower before Jan1 to register it as an AW
2) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it and never be able to build it up with features
3) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it with the option to build it up featureless post Jan 1
4) Relinquish the lower
5) All else is illegal?

P.S.
If I choose 2 or 3, can I legally transport it out of state or sell it as a PPT?
__________________
This law is basically on the honor system in 2017 and CA has no honor so CA can go F itself. --Nodaedul

Custom Dan Wesson Valor

Last edited by SiegeX; 11-26-2016 at 5:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2016, 10:41 AM
dieselpower's Avatar
dieselpower dieselpower is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 11,093
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiegeX View Post
So if I have a completely stripped lower with a LPK and no upper, come Jan 1st 2017 my options are:

1) Buy an upper and build up the lower before Jan1 to register it as an AW
2) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it and never be able to build it up with features
3) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it with the option to build it up featureless post Jan 1
4) Relinquish the lower
5) All else is illegal?

P.S.
If I choose 2 or 3, can I legally transport it out of state or sell it as a PPT?
yup.
__________________
on surrounded ground, plot, on deadly ground, fight.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:19 AM
smupser smupser is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 43
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I keep seeing this question and wonder it myself. Per the new law I understand a stripped lower doesn't constitute a AW, but if you are in possession of one prior to Jan. 1 2017, and have all of 2017 as a "grace period" to register as a AW, how can they prove you assembled it after the Jan. 1st deadline. Lower parts kits and such are non FFL items and aren't suddenly going to become unavailable after the 1st. That being said I'm not saying it's not illegal, but really how can they prove it.

To me it's no different than those going the 80% route in 2017
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:37 AM
Motor Man Motor Man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Martinez, CA
Posts: 567
iTrader: 53 / 100%
Default

If you have one complete rifle and two complete lowers as of December 31, 2016, are they not all complete rifles before the magic date if you move the one upper between the three lowers (prior to that date)?

Even a registered Assault rifle can be reduced to a stripped lower then rebuilt again and still remain a registered assault rifle. So why would you have to have an upper for each of the lowers.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-06-2016, 7:50 PM
95jza80tt 95jza80tt is online now
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SF, Bay Area
Posts: 54
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I wanted to bring this back up as I have a QuarterCircle10 GSF complete lower on its way right now from avguns in FL (I know, cutting it kinda close) to a local FFL and a stripped upper on its way to me. Does this not meet the requirements? I have yet to purchase the rest of the parts as budgets are getting tight.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-06-2016, 8:03 PM
Victor346's Avatar
Victor346 Victor346 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Jose
Posts: 149
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Man, I just want these regs to get released already so we know what exactly we're dealing with.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-06-2016, 9:30 PM
Smedkcuf Smedkcuf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Orange County
Posts: 287
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor Man View Post
If you have one complete rifle and two complete lowers as of December 31, 2016, are they not all complete rifles before the magic date if you move the one upper between the three lowers (prior to that date)?

Even a registered Assault rifle can be reduced to a stripped lower then rebuilt again and still remain a registered assault rifle. So why would you have to have an upper for each of the lowers.
I've been asking the same thing for a while, and nobody has been able to answer it. But it seems like this would be fine since nothing in the law forbids this. This would be the same thing as if you put a MagMagnet on 3 different bullet button ARs, one after the other. In this case I'm sure the DOJ would say you just made 3 illegal assault weapons, and the act of removing the MagMagnet doesn't make any difference once you've put it on even for just a second.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:11 AM
king1775 king1775 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Placer County
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

This is what I was hoping to do. I can't afford to complete the build on my two lowers before 01/01/17
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-09-2016, 12:10 AM
joechoi107 joechoi107 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 108
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

So..... what's the consensus here? Having one complete upper and multiple complete lowers will still allow you to register all lowers as AW? Really not looking forward to buying 2 extra complete uppers just to be within the deadline.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-09-2016, 6:36 AM
dieselpower's Avatar
dieselpower dieselpower is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 11,093
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I have a safe filled with AR parts, even though if assembled they make an AW, I cant register them until they are assembled into an AW and the assembly of them into an AW is illegal after 2016.

so I can buy, own or sell a stripped lower right now. I can build an ar15 that is legal today using a BB as a way to lock the magazine release button and its all good. But in 2017 it turns into an AW and must be registered or taken out of state or forever disassembled.

what you cannot do is buy all the parts to make an aw in 2016 and assemble them into a working rifle in 2017.

yes you can always lie and say it was a complete firearm 9in 2016 and if youare caught in that lie you will go to jail.
__________________
on surrounded ground, plot, on deadly ground, fight.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-09-2016, 11:59 AM
CenterX's Avatar
CenterX CenterX is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sleep North SFO Bay
Posts: 1,481
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

So a stripped Lower in possession today can be assembled into featureless in 2017.

Yet, if the assembly has any features it must have them before 2017 to be registered.

Will property inspections be required?
__________________

- Aut Pax Aut Bellum - Volunteer LDW
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-09-2016, 7:37 PM
dieselpower's Avatar
dieselpower dieselpower is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 11,093
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CenterX View Post
So a stripped Lower in possession today can be assembled into featureless in 2017.

Yet, if the assembly has any features it must have them before 2017 to be registered.

Will property inspections be required?

If the lower is assembled as a BB (magazine locked) rifle, even if disassembled into parts, it can be legally registered in 2017.

The tricky part is
1- proving that if need be.
2- DoJ might compare DROS and RAW application and then request a photo of the firearm.

Bill Weise recommended not to lie, tell the truth and call a lawyer if they start questioning if your lower was actually a working firearm pre2017.
__________________
on surrounded ground, plot, on deadly ground, fight.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:08 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.