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  #1  
Old 08-23-2017, 1:44 PM
Ronyo Ronyo is offline
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Default Bring ID gun to CA, 'dual resident'

Haven't seen anyone here in my situation,
I have dual residency of Idaho and CA (I own a house in CA and in ID), I travel back and forth several times a year.
Will I be ok taking my Idaho firearm along for the trip?
Do I need to register it in CA?
What would be the proper way?
  #2  
Old 08-23-2017, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
Haven't seen anyone here in my situation,
I have dual residency of Idaho and CA (I own a house in CA and in ID), I travel back and forth several times a year.
Will I be ok taking my Idaho firearm along for the trip?
Do I need to register it in CA?
What would be the proper way?
Dual residency is out of scope for Calguns - the legal technicalities are so situation-specific it's not possible to provide general guidance.

At the very topmost, pretty-useless level, if a state thinks you are a resident of that state, you can follow that state's laws when you are there.

You may find it appalling - I certainly do - that CA has Penal Code that might address part of your situation:
Quote:
27585.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
So far as I have heard, there have been no prosecutions under this section - but that does not mean no prosecutions are possible.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #3  
Old 08-23-2017, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
Haven't seen anyone here in my situation,
I have dual residency of Idaho and CA (I own a house in CA and in ID), I travel back and forth several times a year.

1. Will I be ok taking my Idaho firearm along for the trip?
2. Do I need to register it in CA?
3. What would be the proper way?
Since you maintained your CA residency...

1. No.
2. Yes. See #3.
3. Firearm is shipped to a CA FFL dealer, who then transfers (DROS/10 day wait) it back to you. The transfer process will register the firearm to you. [PC 27585(a)]

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates to a misdemeanor per long gun you import into CA [PC 27590(a)] and a felony per handgun you import into CA [PC 27590(c)(7)].



Penal Code 27585
(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

Penal Code 27590
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (e), a violation of this article is a misdemeanor.
(c) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of this article shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(7) A violation of Section 27585 involving a handgun.
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  #4  
Old 08-23-2017, 8:21 PM
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I failed to mention that all though I spend equal time in both places, I hold an Idaho driver license, so registering in CA will not work (i think).
Also, I am not planning to leave the firearm in CA, I am merely passing through and back to out again.
I wonder if the "Act of Safe Passage" Federal Criminal Code 18USC926A applys to me.

Last edited by Ronyo; 08-23-2017 at 8:23 PM..
  #5  
Old 08-23-2017, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
I wonder if the "Act of Safe Passage" Federal Criminal Code 18USC926A applys to me.
Nope.
Because it only applies when traveling directly through the State (no extended stops or stays).
It does not apply if you go to another State and stay there for awhile, then come back.

In addition, Federal Appeals courts have ruled that 18 USC 926A is an affirmative defense to be used at trial and does not prevent a person from being arrested/jailed/property confiscated for violating State laws that they are traveling through.
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  #6  
Old 08-23-2017, 11:39 PM
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not this again! ?
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:06 AM
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PC27585 violation with a handgun can be charged as a felony. You might never again own any guns in any state if you get prosecuted for that.

If you are also a CA resident, you cannot cross the state line into CA even for a visit with a gun you acquired after 1/1/2015 out of state unless you are a FFL. Such a gun must be shipped here to a FFL for DROS to you, if it is a handgun it must be on the roster, then you wait ten days for pickup, etc etc. After that, you can come and go as you please with that firearm.
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
not this again! ?
Yup, and it's the OP's first posting on this forum.............
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:15 AM
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You're not a dual resident and stop calling yourself that. You're the resident of the state where you live the most and have an identification issued by that state. Period. There are many people who own property in more than 3, 4,10, 20 states. They are not residents of those 20 states. Get it?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:37 AM
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This is a confusing area of CA law, to say the least, but your concern per post #1 is complying with CA, not Federal or ID, law. As for that, the only question is does CA consider you a resident and just how residence is to be determined for that purpose is less than clear for purposes of whether or not one must comply with Penal Code 27585. From what you say, you could easily be considered a CA resident or if ultimately found not to be one, you could pile up a lot of costs in legal fees. If your gun is CA legal, ask an attorney about importing it into the state as a Personal Firearms Importer and registering it. Make sure the magazine capacity is not more than 10 rounds.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:16 AM
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Found this on DOJ website:
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 25610, a United States citizen over 18 years of age who is not prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, may transport by motor vehicle any handgun provided it is unloaded and locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container. Furthermore, the handgun must be carried directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while being carried must be contained within a locked container.
  #12  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
Found this on DOJ website:
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 25610, a United States citizen over 18 years of age who is not prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, may transport by motor vehicle any handgun provided it is unloaded and locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container. Furthermore, the handgun must be carried directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while being carried must be contained within a locked container.
Doesn't matter if bringing the gun here - the topic of the thread - bumps into PC 27585.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


  #13  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:23 AM
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Also this:
Pursuant to Penal Code sections 17000 and 27560, any person who moves into California with a firearm is considered a "Personal Firearm Importer" and is required by California law to do one of the following within 60 days.
1.Complete and submit a New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership.
2. Sell or transfer the firearm to a California licensed firearms dealer.
3. Sell or transfer the firearm to a California police or sheriff's department.


Sound good to me, what do you think?
  #14  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
Also this:
Pursuant to Penal Code sections 17000 and 27560, any person who moves into California with a firearm is considered a "Personal Firearm Importer" and is required by California law to do one of the following within 60 days.
1.Complete and submit a New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership.
2. Sell or transfer the firearm to a California licensed firearms dealer.
3. Sell or transfer the firearm to a California police or sheriff's department.


Sound good to me, what do you think?
Doesn't apply to you. You didn't "move" into California with the firearm. You identified yourself as an existing resident.

When you try playing "Switchy-Changey" with the law, you tend to get yourself into trouble.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:38 AM
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Do some research. The law is less than crystal clear, but the New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership states that the form must be must be completed
within 60 days of bringing a firearm into the state of California and becoming a resident. So when will the State of California contend that you became a resident? If more than 60 days before you import a firearm from ID, and CA considers you to still be a resident, you are looking at a felony charge.
  #16  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
So when will the State of California contend that you became a resident?
That's my dilemma, I am not going to become a CA resident as I am keeping my Idaho (at the moment).
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:27 PM
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You already said that you spend equal time in each state. CA will decide to treat you as a resident according to its interpretation of CA law; not Federal and not Idaho law. I don't think the definition of resident in PC 17000 necessarily covers if one is a resident for purposes of resident importation. Unless you can show otherwise, a good argument can be made that the term resident includes persons maintaining a resident in the state who lives inn it for substantial part of the time, as opposed to one who occasionally visits the state and might only spend time in hotels.
  #18  
Old 08-24-2017, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
That's my dilemma, I am not going to become a CA resident as I am keeping my Idaho (at the moment).
Under CA laws/regulations, you are considered a CA resident if you meet one of the following conditions:
01. Have a rental or lease agreement for property in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
02. Have a deed or title to residential property in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
03. Have a mortgage bill for property in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
04. Pay CA utility bills (power, water, trash, gas, phone). [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
05. Pay CA resident tution at a public or private school/college. [VC 12505(a)(1)(B)]
06. Have CA medical documents. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
07. Have CA employment documents. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
08. Pay insurance in CA (medical, dental, vision, life, home, fire, earthquake, rental, vehicle, etc). [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
09. Pay CA income tax. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
10. Have a vehicle or vessel registered in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
11. Pay property tax in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
12. There are US Gov records showing you reside in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
13. There are financial (bank) records showing you reside in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
14. There are Court records showing you reside in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]
15. You are registered to vote in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(A)]
16. Certified letter from a shelter (homeless, womens, etc) attesting you reside in CA. [VC 12505(a)(1)(D)]


Since, you posted that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyo View Post
... I own a house in CA ...
CA considers you a CA resident and will treat you like a CA resident, even though you maintain residency in ID.
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Last edited by Quiet; 08-24-2017 at 8:08 PM.. Reason: VC cites
  #19  
Old 08-24-2017, 6:40 PM
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This is what the ATF has to say about dual residency: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.11

Quote:
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.
A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.
A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
The feds would consider you a resident of CA during the time that you actually reside in CA. CA will very likely consider you a CA resident when you are present in this state. It was one of main reasons for the passing of the law to require CA residents to have all guns they acquire out of state to have to be imported into CA through a CA FFL. This was to cut off a source of off-roster guns coming into the state by dual state residents.

You really need to speak with an attorney. While in CA, CA could easily consider you a resident because you own a home here and spend part of the year here. They could require that during that time the car you drive be plated in CA and smogged, and that you pay taxes as a part year resident. People who get caught after the fact have faced hefty fines.

My brother played that game,living part time in Iowa and CA and kept his truck plated in Iowa. He got caught when the local PD noticed the Iowa plated truck in the driveway of the house over several months so sent an officer to speak with him. It was a small town police force that is well known for strict enforcement of all traffic laws. They even write speeding tickets for 2 mph over the limit.

There is no work around. If you want a CA legal gun to have while in CA, you will have to get a CA ID, buy a gun in CA using a CA FFL. You can take that back to ID with you with no issues because ID is a free state. When you return to CA, bring the CA registered gun with you.

The only other option is to get two FFL03 licenses. One for each state. It can be done, but you will have to explain to the ATF why. It is so you can order C&R guns to the address you are living at the time you are purchasing.

Buy a C&R eligible handgun while in ID. You can legally import it into CA. Transfer it to your CA C&R book when you get to CA and then send in the $19 fee to register it with the state. When you leave the state, take the gun with you and transfer it back to your ID book.

Even if you give up your FFL03 later, you can still bring the gun with you back to CA as it is registered.

There is another CalGunner that does this so he can pick up his C&R guns in NV.

The other option is to do what some of us are planning, getting the heck out of this he**hole permanently. Idaho is on my short list. I had a friend that escaped to ID a year ago and she is not looking back. She told her family that if they want to see her and her children, they have to go to ID because she will never set foot in CA again.

My son finishes graduate school next June. I hope to be out of here then. If not then I will only wait one more year. My wife knows that is the longest I will wait then I am gone. She can retire any time she wants. She has her 30 years. I will have to work at least 10 more years and I refuse to stay here that long. I gave up a career to stay here for family. She can retire so it is time for her to follow me or get left behind.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2017, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Under CA laws/regulations, you are considered a CA resident if you meet one of the following conditions:
01. Have a rental or lease agreement for property in CA.
02. Have a deed or title to residential property in CA.
03. Have a mortgage bill for property in CA.
04. Pay CA utility bills (power, water, trash, gas, phone).
05. Pay CA resident tution at a public or private school/college.
06. Have CA medical documents.
07. Have CA employment documents.
08. Pay insurance in CA (medical, dental, vision, life, home, fire, earthquake, rental, vehicle, etc).
09. Pay CA income tax.
10. Have a vehicle or vessel registered in CA.
11. Pay property tax in CA.
12. There are US Gov records showing you reside in CA.
13. There are financial (bank) records showing you reside in CA.
14. There are Court records showing you reside in CA.
15. You are registered to vote in CA.
16. Certified letter from a shelter (homeless, womens, etc) attesting you reside in CA.


Since, you posted that...

CA considers you a CA resident and will treat you like a CA resident, even though you maintain residency in ID.
Impressive list.
Would you share the source?
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Old 08-24-2017, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artb View Post
Impressive list.
Would you share the source?
CA DMV: Proof of California Residency

In regards to residency for firearms, CA Vehicle Code is utilized. [PC 17000(b)(1)]



Penal Code 17000
(b) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.

Vehicle Code 12505
(a)(1) For purposes of this division only and notwithstanding Section 516, residency shall be determined as a person’s state of domicile. “State of domicile” means the state where a person has his or her true, fixed, and permanent home and principal residence and to which he or she has manifested the intention of returning whenever he or she is absent.
Prima facie evidence of residency for driver’s licensing purposes includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(A) Address where registered to vote.
(B) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher education.
(C) Filing a homeowner’s property tax exemption.
(D) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2017, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
You're not a dual resident and stop calling yourself that. You're the resident of the state where you live the most and have an identification issued by that state. Period. There are many people who own property in more than 3, 4,10, 20 states. They are not residents of those 20 states. Get it?
Hmmmm, I have an AZ driver's license and a CA ID card. I pay state taxes in both states, and live in both states. Yet I consider myself an AZ resident (registered to vote in AZ) even though I don't live there the "most."

OP - Do not bring your ID guns into this state. Live that shizz in ID. If you have a CA ID card (which you can get since you own property here), buy a CA legal firearm from a CA FFL.
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Last edited by epilepticninja; 08-24-2017 at 10:28 PM.. Reason: Grammar fix
  #23  
Old 08-24-2017, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Hmmmm, I have an AZ driver's license and a CA ID card. I pay state taxes in both states, and live in both states. Yet I consider myself an AZ resident even though I don't live their the "most."
You're a CA resident.
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Old 08-24-2017, 9:51 PM
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Hmmmm, I have an AZ driver's license and a CA ID card. I pay state taxes in both states, and live in both states. Yet I consider myself an AZ resident (registered to vote in AZ) even though I don't live their the "most."
That's cool, but what you consider yourself doesn't matter as far as the California statutes are concerned.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
That's cool, but what you consider yourself doesn't matter as far as the California statutes are concerned.


True, true. However I don't bring any of my AZ guns or accessories into CA. And all of my firearm items in CA are CA legal (for now.) I have CCW permits in both states.


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Old 08-24-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
You're a CA resident.


No, I'm a political prisoner. Eight more months and I won't have any affiliation with this piehole communist republic of no freedom.


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  #27  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
True, true. However I don't bring any of my AZ guns or accessories into CA. And all of my firearm items in CA are CA legal (for now.) I have CCW permits in both states.


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That's a very good practice. I wish you the best for day you can become a full-time AZ resident. It took me about six minutes after retirement to be heading N/B on I-5 out of the state.
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CA DMV: Proof of California Residency

In regards to residency for firearms, CA Vehicle Code is utilized. [PC 17000(b)(1)]



Penal Code 17000
(b) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.

Vehicle Code 12505
(a)(1) For purposes of this division only and notwithstanding Section 516, residency shall be determined as a person’s state of domicile. “State of domicile” means the state where a person has his or her true, fixed, and permanent home and principal residence and to which he or she has manifested the intention of returning whenever he or she is absent.
Prima facie evidence of residency for driver’s licensing purposes includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(A) Address where registered to vote.
(B) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher education.
(C) Filing a homeowner’s property tax exemption.
(D) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient.
That is what many think to be how residency for firearms purposes is to be determined, but 17000 only states that is how it is determined for purposes of the Personal Firearms Importation law (whether one moved to CA as a resident). It isn't clear how that VC section applies, if at all, where one is not claiming any exemption as a PFI. As you also know, that only establishes a rebuttable presumption of residency.
  #29  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:49 AM
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Owning a home in two states does not constitute dual residency. You can only be a legal resident of one state at a time barring some very limited circumstances for service members. CA is pretty strict when it comes to residency, so even with ID driver's license CA may still consider you a resident as Librarian pointed out.
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The architects of the assault weapon bans ... are simply trying to fight the Culture War. And we can't win, not in California anyway because you guys, the ones with the most to lose, refuse to do what you need to do to win the Culture Wars, which is to make Calguns and the gun rights community a truly big tent and stop driving people away simply because they are different from you.
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  #30  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:34 AM
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Thank you all so much for the great information.
I think I know what I want to do now,
I will keep my "toys" in my fun state and not even bother with the great republic of CA.
  #31  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:58 AM
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Smart move. Idaho is my target state.
  #32  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:02 AM
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The legal arguments have been pretty well presented here. There is also the practical angle here (Not necessarily correct to the letter of the law).

Assuming you the gun is otherwise legal here, like a bolt action rifle, pump shotgun, pistol, etc... You have an Idaho DL, Your vehicle has Idaho tags, and you haven't been in the state very long (Less than 14 days I believe). You are pulled over, the officer is presented with an otherwise legal firearm and the above mentioned situation, and you are sent on your way. Business as usual. No reasonable suspicion. A very specific string of events would have to transpire before you are sitting in open court having this same argument.

That said, it is much easier to just properly import the firearms to cali so this is avoided in the future.

Can someone clarify whether moving out of the state for a period of time, then moving back to California, would start a new 60 day clock for importation of firearms?

Last edited by iBkickinit; 10-03-2017 at 11:06 AM..
  #33  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:15 AM
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There is Safe Harbor for Calfornians who move out of state for a job. If they work for 1.5 years out of state because of a job, then they are no longer a resident and can move back to California with off roster firearms.

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2015/15_1031.pdf


Quote:
Safe Harbor
Safe harbor is available for certain individuals leaving
California under employment-related contracts. The safe
harbor provides that an individual domiciled in California
who is outside California under an employment-related
contract for an uninterrupted period of at least 546
consecutive days will be considered a nonresident
unless
any of the following is met:
• The individual has intangible income exceeding
$200,000 in any taxable year during which the
employment-related contract is in effect.
• The principal purpose of the absence from California is
to avoid personal income tax.
  #34  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
If you work out of state for 18 months consecutively, then you are considered a resident of that state. Even if you own a home in California.

I would have to say it is 18 months of full time employment out of state.
Forget what the FTB has to say about California residency. Residency for Tax purposes is unrelated to residency for Firearms purposes. Please take a real close gander at the first eight words of the FTB document that you posted in order to gain a better understanding of its limited scope.

There is no such provision defining residency for the purposes of California's firearm laws.

Please refer to Penal Code section 17000.
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Last edited by RickD427; 10-03-2017 at 11:23 AM..
  #35  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Where are you coming up with this 18 Month rule?

There is no such provision defining residency for the purposes of California's firearm laws.

Please refer to Penal Code section 17000.
It's called Safe Harbor. I posted it up above.

If you work for 18 months consecutively out of state, you are considered a non-resident under Safe Harbor laws. These rules and determination are set by the State of California Franchise Tax Board.

Safe Harbor does not apply to a California who works in both California and Idaho. If the OP owns homes in both, and is in Idaho consecutively for 1.5 years because of a job, then Safe Harbor applies to him.

By being a non-resident, Penal Code 17000 does not apply to you, since you are a nonresident.

Last edited by SoCal P320; 10-03-2017 at 11:23 AM..
  #36  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
It's called Safe Harbor. I posted it up above.

If you work for 18 months consecutively out of state, you are considered a non-resident under Safe Harbor laws. These rules and determination are set by the State of California Franchise Tax Board.

Safe Harbor does not apply to a California who works in both California and Idaho. If the OP owns homes in both, and is in Idaho consecutively for 1.5 years because of a job, then Safe Harbor applies to him.

By being a non-resident, Penal Code 17000 does not apply to you, since you are a nonresident.
It looks like you were writing this while I was editing my earlier post to address your point.

You've made a very common mistake here of confusing the various definitions of "residency" used in various places in California law. California does not universally define the term for all purposes.

The "Safe Harbor" provision that you cited to addresses the term residency for purposes of tax law. The FTB document that you cited to very clearly states the scope of its applicability in it's very first paragraph and that applicability does not include firearms.
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  #37  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
It looks like you were writing this while I was editing my earlier post to address your point.

You've made a very common mistake here of confusing the various definitions of "residency" used in various places in California law. California does not universally define the term for all purposes.

The "Safe Harbor" provision that you cited to addresses the term residency for purposes of tax law. The FTB document that you cited to very clearly states the scope of its applicability in it's very first paragraph and that applicability does not include firearms.
Tax Authorities are the most powerful authorities in California.

If California Tax Law is superceded by one department, what is to prevent other departments from also claiming they supercede California tax laws? First the DOJ, then the DMV, County Health, Medi-cal, etc. Everyone would start to ignore California tax laws then.

There would be no end in sight, and without the ability for California to tax it's citizens, California as a state cannot function.
  #38  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
The FTB document that you cited to very clearly states the scope of its applicability in it's very first paragraph and that applicability does not include firearms.
I've done a word search on that document, and there is no word that says "firearm" or "handgun".

California Tax Law is by necessity, the overarching law in the state. Without taxes, a government cannot function. Taxes fund all California government institutions . If one department thinks their rules supercede California's tax laws, what's to prevent all departments to think they supercede tax laws?
  #39  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:52 AM
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Either way, I already called the Department of Justice and asked them about this particular situation. They told me that someone who works 1.5 years out of state consecutively, it is okay for them to bring back non-roster firearms as long as they follow the requirements for new resident.

No one likes taxes. But the tax authorities bow down to no one. The ability to collect taxes is not something that even bankrupcty Chapter 11 authorities can challenge.
  #40  
Old 10-03-2017, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
Tax Authorities are the most powerful authorities in California.

If California Tax Law is superceded by one department, what is to prevent other departments from also claiming they supercede California tax laws? First the DOJ, then the DMV, County Health, Medi-cal, etc. Everyone would start to ignore California tax laws then.

There would be no end in sight, and without the ability for California to tax it's citizens, California as a state cannot function.
There is no "supercession" of laws here. It's just that terms are defined within a particular scope. That's common to California law. It confuses a lot of folks. It keeps lots of lawyers, and courts, busy.

I've learned the hard way, when reading a statute, or a document, to specifically look for its scope of coverage.

In reading the FTB document, I only had to read the first eight words.

As to your conversation with a DOJ employee, just remember that particular employee is not going to be involved in the decision making processes of your arresting officer and filing DDA, nor will they be available to testify at trial. Your worst sources of information are going to be (in no particular order): gun shop employees, general duty LEOs, internet posters, attorneys outside of their practice areas, and the guy/gal answering the phones at DOJ.

Your best sources of information are going to be the statutes themselves, and the official publications of government agencies (your FTB document is an excellent example, but not applicable to firearms).
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