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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #201  
Old 03-19-2014, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neomedic View Post
Trying to decide on some steel plates.

Patriot Plates vs Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates? Which is recommended and why?

And is it better to pick up plates with line-x and then use a fabric spall guard or just go unline with a fabric spall guard. For me... weight savings is more important than increased weight with minimal benefit.

And do you have link to what fabric spall guard is recommended? The old link to the calguns thread about fabric spall guard is dead.

Thanks.

EDIT: Is there a link on where to get Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates?

Yes, is there a link to where Flash Bainite plates can be purchased? Completely MIA on the interspace.

If they are truly as good as you say... I kinda want a pair...
Flash Bainite cannot be found (purchased)...
AR500 just doesn't seem appealing any more after FlashB
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  #202  
Old 03-19-2014, 3:45 PM
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It seems they are AWOL. And before that, they could only be purchased with the "picture frame" guards, which takes away the end user's choice.
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  #203  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:55 PM
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d-r I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say on this particular brand:

http://www.thetargetman.com/product-...iv-composites/

Video of testing here:

http://youtu.be/OPG4NU7hO_g

Interested mostly in what you think of a ceramic plate between "Fiberglass reinforced plastic sheets". From what I saw of the video it seemed like the plate was able to take a substantial beating and I don't expect something like that to go through much more. But I do know that there is some concern with something that is trying to save weight in the case of body armor. I'd probably pair this with a soft backer as any other plate but wanted to see your thoughts on that particular style of manufacturing.

Last edited by Blackrain7557; 03-27-2014 at 11:11 PM..
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  #204  
Old 03-28-2014, 7:16 PM
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When I was in Afghanistan I had a dude hitch a ride in my truck who's plate carrier looked like he didn't have any plates in it, and when I picked it up (as he was in the PHQ) it was insanely light, I squeezed it and sure enough, there were plates in it. When I asked him about it later, he said that his company bought them for him, I'm guessing they were about half an inch, not much different in thickness than my plates (.6) but much much lighter in weight.
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  #205  
Old 03-31-2014, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by d-r View Post
It seems they are AWOL. And before that, they could only be purchased with the "picture frame" guards, which takes away the end user's choice.
Sad to see they are confirmed AWOL. (any thoughts on why/where?)
Glad to see my Google'fu is still strong.
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  #206  
Old 04-08-2014, 5:16 PM
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Whats a good kevlar solution good value and comfort?
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  #207  
Old 04-14-2014, 1:21 PM
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Are the curved ergonomic plates worth it when it comes to the AR500 armor? Thanks in advance!
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  #208  
Old 04-14-2014, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wpage View Post
Whats a good kevlar solution good value and comfort?
US Armor Enforcer Classic is still the best. Unfortunately, it seems the popularity of that model has resulted in a backlog. Two other alternatives are the Paraclete K3K3A and the CAT/DBT RVA3A. These would be the only other ballistic packages I would personally purchase if I had to go with commercial-only armor. Contact DBT and see if they can provide this package, they are very friendly folks.

Just in the interests of full disclosure, the Paraclete offering utilizes a fourth gen laminate called Kevlar XP.

Aside from those options, you have to go custom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryBoy View Post
Sad to see they are confirmed AWOL. (any thoughts on why/where?)
Glad to see my Google'fu is still strong.
Not sure, but there are options that are as good, and very affordable. WWW.maingun.biz has the HHS plates available. Also, plates made with ARMOX 600 and ARMOX Advance promise to be superior materials for rifle plates, with the Advance able to stop M193 @ 3000 fps with 4.5mm thickness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerrilla Warfare View Post
Are the curved ergonomic plates worth it when it comes to the AR500 armor? Thanks in advance!
Yes, if you are wearing them for any length of time. If they are to be kept as a "grab 'n go" setup, the flat plates are just fine. The curved plates also offer slightly better ballistic resistance to the the increased chance of a round yawing on impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
When I was in Afghanistan I had a dude hitch a ride in my truck who's plate carrier looked like he didn't have any plates in it, and when I picked it up (as he was in the PHQ) it was insanely light, I squeezed it and sure enough, there were plates in it. When I asked him about it later, he said that his company bought them for him, I'm guessing they were about half an inch, not much different in thickness than my plates (.6) but much much lighter in weight.
Sounds like the very high end level IV standalones. Some of the current bleeding edge plates are as thin as .485" and stop M2AP or better. Price? Over $1K per plate. Still, if you need it, they are nice to have.
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  #209  
Old 04-22-2014, 1:20 PM
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So what should you look for when choosing a carrier? Thickness of straps , nylon, ect..
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  #210  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Master Blaster View Post
So what should you look for when choosing a carrier? Thickness of straps , nylon, ect..
That depends on intended role. If it is to be used only as a "bump in the night" rig, a Beez Combat Systems semi-MOLLE would be optimal. If for use concealed, their slick is good, as well as the TAG Slick carriers.

For full house plate carriers, the three I like the best currently are the Hardpoint Axis, The Mayflower APC, and the SKD PIG is still in the running.

Avoid cheap carriers made of poly, they are crap. Straps are usually able to be changed out for thicker or thinner, as your needs dictate.
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  #211  
Old 04-25-2014, 10:14 AM
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Does anyone know a good place to order 10x12 spall pads? Cati armor has sets of four, but are there any alternatives that have two 10x12 pad sets without the 6x8's?
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  #212  
Old 04-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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D-r makes custom spall liners shoot him a pm.
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  #213  
Old 04-25-2014, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
The Patriot plates are overall a better deal, and they are good folks over at Maingun Surplus.

I recommend a thin Line-X coat on all steel plates for corrosion protection, and it does not hurt to have a little extra spall mitigation. Spall guards should be worn with all steel plates, and many ceramic plates also benefit from them.

Updated links in thread for guards.
That's good then... I got my Main Gun set tonight and it is definitely a thin coating of Line-X on the front. The back is paint. Some of the other places I looked (Cati Armor for example) have a frag coating that is very thick. At least I don't have to paint these like bare plates. I do like the cut and curve of my bare Cati Armor plates though.

Overall I think the Condor CPC with the Main Gun plates will be a good backup carrier with spall liners added.

Last edited by crufflers; 05-13-2014 at 12:06 PM..
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  #214  
Old 04-25-2014, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
That depends on intended role. If it is to be used only as a "bump in the night" rig, a Beez Combat Systems semi-MOLLE would be optimal. If for use concealed, their slick is good, as well as the TAG Slick carriers.

For full house plate carriers, the three I like the best currently are the Hardpoint Axis, The Mayflower APC, and the SKD PIG is still in the running.

Avoid cheap carriers made of poly, they are crap. Straps are usually able to be changed out for thicker or thinner, as your needs dictate.
What do you think of the Shellback Banshee? It ends up at the same price as the Beez with padded options.

http://www.lapolicegear.com/shellbac...tecarrier.html
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  #215  
Old 04-26-2014, 7:45 PM
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The Banshee (made by Shellback, there are two "Banshee" PC out there) is a good piece of kit.
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  #216  
Old 05-01-2014, 1:24 AM
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Thoughts on the Midwest Armor Venture series plates?
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  #217  
Old 05-01-2014, 8:32 AM
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Thoughts on the Midwest Armor Venture series plates?
The Venture FM3 is a pretty nice UHMWPE lightweight plate. If you need positive buoyancy (they float) and protection against M80, AK, and M193, they are the cat's meow. Remember they will not stop M855

The FM4 looks like it may be the best overall plate in the sub-1K per plate range (still kissing the 1K price point) that will stop pretty much any threat. Ceramic over UHMWPE, so there are still fragility issues, but profile is .5" thick, weight per plate is sub- 6 lb! Looks good, people. Keeping my eyes on this, will try to get my pennies saved and do a review (non-destructive for now! Not a millionaire).

Overall, I really like what Midwest Armor is doing. They offer a good range of options, from affordable and effective (the Guardian series) to plates that will compete favorably with the latest and greatest Ceradyne high-speed, low drag releases. If anybody is looking for a good place to purchase their armor, head over to Appalachian Training. Mike is a great guy to deal with!
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  #218  
Old 05-06-2014, 2:13 PM
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Default Soft armor recomendations

A lot of great information here. I scored a pair of TAP Gamma plus plates recently (I wish I had bought them a year or so ago when they were abundant on eBay, had them on a watch list forever just never bought them). Anyways, now that I have the hard plates, I'm looking for backers. I understand the plates themselves are standalone; I'm considering them mainly as blunt trauma protection, as well as a bit of extra insurance.

Does anyone have some good recommendations? Presently I'm looking at the Spartan IIIA from The Targetman.

http://http://www.thetargetman.com/p...semi-flexible/

Thanks
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  #219  
Old 05-08-2014, 2:56 AM
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Looking to fill my Crye CPC with Level IV standalone plates.

Budget is $750 for F&R plates. Is this possible within the price range for ceramic plates? (If recommended) Made by a solid manufacturer? I quickly skimmed through this thread and most links were out of date / unavailable.

I have a high back Crye BLAST belt with it's default soft armor insert but I'm unsure what level it is to be honest. Crye doesn't specify and only says "NIJ frag and handgun protection" whatever that means. I also bought it used and I'm guessing/hoping it's kevlar since it can take a beating.

Would it be weird to run rifle plates for carrier and then soft armor in the hip area? better than no protection and the weight isn't really noticeable when the kit is comfortable. It is a world of difference between the issue IBA that's for sure.
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  #220  
Old 05-08-2014, 3:51 PM
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The only commercial backers that I can recommend with 100% certainty as containing 100% woven Kevlar aramid would be the Midwest MASS backers. Appalachian Training has these in-stock currently:

http://store.appalachiantraining.com...2DBacker%2DMED

The Spartans contain UHMWPE, and so are no-go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajcrash View Post
A lot of great information here. I scored a pair of TAP Gamma plus plates recently (I wish I had bought them a year or so ago when they were abundant on eBay, had them on a watch list forever just never bought them). Anyways, now that I have the hard plates, I'm looking for backers. I understand the plates themselves are standalone; I'm considering them mainly as blunt trauma protection, as well as a bit of extra insurance.

Does anyone have some good recommendations? Presently I'm looking at the Spartan IIIA from The Targetman.

http://http://www.thetargetman.com/p...semi-flexible/

Thanks
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  #221  
Old 05-08-2014, 3:54 PM
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Couple posts up, I mentioned the Midwest Level IV Guardians. $290 for a set:

http://store.appalachiantraining.com...AN-IVTripleSet


Get a set of the MASS IIIA backers from the same place, and you are $260 under budget, with a good setup that can be used with or without plates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossedRifles View Post
Looking to fill my Crye CPC with Level IV standalone plates.

Budget is $750 for F&R plates. Is this possible within the price range for ceramic plates? (If recommended) Made by a solid manufacturer? I quickly skimmed through this thread and most links were out of date / unavailable.

I have a high back Crye BLAST belt with it's default soft armor insert but I'm unsure what level it is to be honest. Crye doesn't specify and only says "NIJ frag and handgun protection" whatever that means. I also bought it used and I'm guessing/hoping it's kevlar since it can take a beating.

Would it be weird to run rifle plates for carrier and then soft armor in the hip area? better than no protection and the weight isn't really noticeable when the kit is comfortable. It is a world of difference between the issue IBA that's for sure.
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  #222  
Old 05-09-2014, 9:08 AM
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Excellent, thanks d-r. I'll check out a set. I've got a minimal amount of plate slop in my current PC, backers ought to solve that though. If not I' may take the plunge on SKD's PIG and run my current PC as a slick.

Thanks again for the great info you provide.
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  #223  
Old 05-10-2014, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Couple posts up, I mentioned the Midwest Level IV Guardians. $290 for a set:

http://store.appalachiantraining.com...AN-IVTripleSet


Get a set of the MASS IIIA backers from the same place, and you are $260 under budget, with a good setup that can be used with or without plates.
Thanks again d-r. I can't tell whether you're telling me I should use both in conjunction of just run them separately. The first one you linked says standalone, but would it hurt at all to have IIIA backers?
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  #224  
Old 05-11-2014, 8:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossedRifles View Post
Thanks again d-r. I can't tell whether you're telling me I should use both in conjunction of just run them separately. The first one you linked says standalone, but would it hurt at all to have IIIA backers?
Always run plates with backers, regardless of which plates you use. The extra thickness is minimal compared with the additional peace of mind. When you don't need the plates, the backers provide pistol protection.
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  #225  
Old 05-13-2014, 12:30 PM
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Is MissionTactical the only place to acquire TAP gamma plates these days?
http://missiontactical.com/level-iii...fle-plate.html
I'm kicking myself for not picking up a pair years ago when they were on my radar!
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  #226  
Old 05-13-2014, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
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Is MissionTactical the only place to acquire TAP gamma plates these days?
http://missiontactical.com/level-iii...fle-plate.html
I'm kicking myself for not picking up a pair years ago when they were on my radar!
Pretty much the only place to get them new. Ebay, they do occasionally turn up. The Midwest Guardian Multicurve may be replacing them as my top go-to recommendation, in terms of bang for buck ratio.
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  #227  
Old 05-15-2014, 2:14 PM
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I really like the 5 lbs saving (between two plates) that TAP G provides compared to steel/midwest guardians... But You're absolutely right about the bang for the buck. 260 per plate is a bit steep compared to what they used to go for.
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  #228  
Old 05-15-2014, 5:25 PM
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Oh absolutely. The TAP Gamma multi is still the best dedicated III plate on the playground IMHO. The Guardians are great because they do give you IV level protection (and will be testing them shortly to see if they provide any sort of multi-hit durability vs. the standard IV "one and done" durability) at a previously unheard-of price point.

If they prove their mettle to soak up 3 or more M80 ball rounds after a level IV event, I will be pleased as punch. The extra 5# will be a worthwhile penalty in that case for those facing the potential of AP threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryBoy View Post
I really like the 5 lbs saving (between two plates) that TAP G provides compared to steel/midwest guardians... But You're absolutely right about the bang for the buck. 260 per plate is a bit steep compared to what they used to go for.
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  #229  
Old 05-27-2014, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
The Venture FM3 is a pretty nice UHMWPE lightweight plate. If you need positive buoyancy (they float) and protection against M80, AK, and M193, they are the cat's meow. Remember they will not stop M855

The FM4 looks like it may be the best overall plate in the sub-1K per plate range (still kissing the 1K price point) that will stop pretty much any threat. Ceramic over UHMWPE, so there are still fragility issues, but profile is .5" thick, weight per plate is sub- 6 lb! Looks good, people. Keeping my eyes on this, will try to get my pennies saved and do a review (non-destructive for now! Not a millionaire).

Overall, I really like what Midwest Armor is doing. They offer a good range of options, from affordable and effective (the Guardian series) to plates that will compete favorably with the latest and greatest Ceradyne high-speed, low drag releases. If anybody is looking for a good place to purchase their armor, head over to Appalachian Training. Mike is a great guy to deal with!
Apparently they are saying the FM4 is .9'' thick now. Not nearly as attractive. I'm not sure it's Ceramic either.
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  #230  
Old 05-28-2014, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogabutila View Post
Apparently they are saying the FM4 is .9'' thick now. Not nearly as attractive. I'm not sure it's Ceramic either.
Correct, the initial release had incorrect info. It is a UHMWPE-focused plate with a strike face of Boron Carbide ceramic. The .90" thickness is less impressive, but overall, the plates are still quite amazing. You can think of them as more durable TAP GAMMA III+ that are level IV.
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  #231  
Old 06-02-2014, 3:30 PM
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Would you pick 8x10
or 10 x12 plates??
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  #232  
Old 06-03-2014, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
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Would you pick 8x10
or 10 x12 plates??
For light kit, 8X10. Normal use, 10X12. If you are a bigger guy, 10X12 minimum.
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  #233  
Old 06-16-2014, 11:27 AM
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D-r....PM inbound with some questions.
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  #234  
Old 06-28-2014, 10:45 PM
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Seems as though the level IV standalones that bulletproofme are selling are good for more than one AP hit. Pretty impressive. Thoughts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2Y1I4ZQ_A
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  #235  
Old 06-29-2014, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisjon View Post
Seems as though the level IV standalones that bulletproofme are selling are good for more than one AP hit. Pretty impressive. Thoughts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2Y1I4ZQ_A
IMHO, the test procedure was flawed- the armor was essentially free-standing, allowing it to fly backwards with each hit. Armor plates should be tested in secured plate carriers, attached to backings similar in consistency and inertia to a human body (clay or DuxSeal). In spite of this, the test was interesting.

I still would recommend the Midwest Guardian Multi-Curve plates instead, as they are still a better deal, and have shown to be just as durable to multiple hits.
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  #236  
Old 06-29-2014, 6:29 PM
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Maingun Surplus now offers curved Mil-A-46100 level III plates. I consider these to be the best practices choice in curved steel level III, from a price and durability standpoint:

http://www.maingun.biz/Body_Armor_St...12twocurve.htm
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Old 06-30-2014, 1:16 PM
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Well I have had the chance to play around with the AR500 plates (front/rear and side) and carrier and all I have to say is - man are they HEAVY! If SHTF and the neighborhood was a war zone, I would want something like this, but for a bump in the night, I would still be trying to lug the thing over my head and get the carrier strapped down by the time the guy was out of the house with my TV. Take the side plates out and it would be much more manageable but I still can't imagine myself wearing this rig all day long should something happen. I will say, it's comfortable when sitting.

This is the rig...the one we are giving away at the CGSSA events.
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Old 06-30-2014, 2:52 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
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Steel- Tried and true, this material is great for stopping rounds (millions of steel targets can't all be wrong). It stops by deforming rounds. It can keep stopping them as long as the structure is uncompromised. Heat and mistreatment do not affect it. Drawbacks- it is heavy for its protective levels, it can rust if you chip the paint, and it spalls: https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/2014...e-spallsplash/
Question.....could you have the steel plates hot dip galvanized for corrosion protection?

I have some steel plates, and occasionally send some stuff for work out for galvanizing and thought of just including my plates in the next batch.
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Old 07-01-2014, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
Question.....could you have the steel plates hot dip galvanized for corrosion protection?

I have some steel plates, and occasionally send some stuff for work out for galvanizing and thought of just including my plates in the next batch.
I would recommend rattle-can Rusteoleum for bare steel. Media blast if you have the opportunity. Reason being, you can always touch up the coat wherever you are. Hot dip, while it would look really cool, would require a complete strip and recoat if it was ever chipped or compromised. Might be neat to try it though, post pics if you do. Have not heard of it being done on rifle plates before.
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Old 07-01-2014, 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls View Post
Well I have had the chance to play around with the AR500 plates (front/rear and side) and carrier and all I have to say is - man are they HEAVY! If SHTF and the neighborhood was a war zone, I would want something like this, but for a bump in the night, I would still be trying to lug the thing over my head and get the carrier strapped down by the time the guy was out of the house with my TV. Take the side plates out and it would be much more manageable but I still can't imagine myself wearing this rig all day long should something happen. I will say, it's comfortable when sitting.

This is the rig...the one we are giving away at the CGSSA events.
ANY armor is going to seem heavy after you have worn it for a couple of hours. Add heat, and an hour seems like a week.

Steel is the heaviest of the "Big Three" materials. The advantages balance out some of the PITA. I would keep the side plates handy for situations that are high risk, but for a quick grab kit, even just a single front plate, and front and rear backers would be enough.
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