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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #81  
Old 03-04-2013, 1:03 PM
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Auf,

Check the link posted right above yours. The Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates are the current best and least expensive plates I am aware of. I have been eagerly awaiting this steel for about a year and a half.

They will also do custom stuff at some point, you just need to ask them, assuming you need the 8" X 10" REC cut plates for a size small FAPC? Good piece of kit, get in touch with the seller and request a price quote for curved 8X10 (trace your carrier so you get precisely the size you need) plates. You will need to paint these yourself to prevent corrosion, but for what you get, the price is amazing.
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  #82  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:00 AM
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i bought a banshee and it looks great the quality is good but the shoulder pads are not that great. if i put the plates where they need to be the pads are split so far that there is no padding on the top only one the front and back. if i put the pads where they are close enough to fill ok the carrier is less than 1.5" from my face, im a thick guy so maybe that is the problem?

also the banshee will not hold plates on the side in the cummerbund, you have to hang them in a pouch that cost $25 for the set. this was a disappointment as i called and the guy told me they would, now they tell me i have to buy more to hold them. more weight more bulk!

Last edited by 1snakedoc; 03-05-2013 at 6:03 AM..
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  #83  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Auf,

Check the link posted right above yours. The Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates are the current best and least expensive plates I am aware of. I have been eagerly awaiting this steel for about a year and a half.

They will also do custom stuff at some point, you just need to ask them, assuming you need the 8" X 10" REC cut plates for a size small FAPC? Good piece of kit, get in touch with the seller and request a price quote for curved 8X10 (trace your carrier so you get precisely the size you need) plates. You will need to paint these yourself to prevent corrosion, but for what you get, the price is amazing.

What are people using to paint their plates with to enhance the longevity/prevent corrosion, D-r?
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  #84  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:42 PM
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My favorite is actually Rustoleum flat brown. Best if you can give the plates a quick blast and wash, dry in an oven, and then hit with 3-4 light coats. Lasts a LONG time, and no problem with rust, even with hard use.
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  #85  
Old 03-05-2013, 5:00 PM
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wash them with mean green and paint no rust
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  #86  
Old 03-12-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
"armor is one of those things that should be in everyone's kit bag."

I have mixed feelings about armor. If Im getting shot at and get hit in the hand and there is no medical attention available I'll probably die of infection or bleeding. If I get hit in the leg same thing as before. If I get hit in the arm also same thing.

My feeling is best to not get into a fight or avoid one at ALL costs. But if you are getting shot at and you are lucky enough to have soft vests and hard plates and the magic bullets hits that plate then its your lucky day. If the shooter has AP 308 then its game over probably.

So my question is do I spend $2,000 dollars on something that protects half my body?

Great write up and thanks for the info.
This ^^^

As a civilian I think you become a target of $2k if morality is lost. Anyone who practices should be able to take your head off at 250 yards. Thank you, ba bye, come again.

Police and military don't leave home without it.
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  #87  
Old 03-21-2013, 9:58 AM
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another thing to consider

Vest-Guard Body Armor Deodorizer
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=BP076

Armorpur Body Armor Deodorizer
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=BP754


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  #88  
Old 03-27-2013, 9:02 AM
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ive been looking at various armor and carrier combo's for a while now, i have a condor plate carrier i really dont like and wanted to thank some of you here, especially D-R for the great write up. I picked up the beeze BALCS and the flash bainite yesterday.
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  #89  
Old 04-06-2013, 2:26 AM
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Anyone try out DKX Max Armor? I like that the IIIA Pistol Armor is only 1/4" thick and is very light weight. Downside is cost and being a rigid plate.

But seems to be a nice Home Defense possibility. Lightweight will be easier to throw on quickly.

The DKX Max Level III Rifle Armor plate is hilariously thick. But at less than 3 lbs. Wow.
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  #90  
Old 04-06-2013, 9:09 AM
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Answered this on another forum. I am not particularly impressed by DKX Max armor, for the reasons you mentioned- it is an expensive, thick, rigid plate that only gives soft armor protection. If you are going to run rigid plates, they should definitely be rifle rated, or run for a very specific mission (need to move fast, expect blunt objects to be used against you, etc.) If the areal density is below .98 lb.sq. ft. for level IIIA it would be worth considering, but if not, it is a solution in search of a problem. If you are going to spend the money, get a 2.1mm thick curved 10x12 Titanium plate, will accomplish the same thing and be much lighter and thinner.

Last edited by d-r; 04-06-2013 at 9:14 AM..
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  #91  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:19 PM
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Has anyone had experience with these? If so, thoughts?

http://www.victorytacticalgear.com/s...2-stand-alone/

With carrier...

http://www.victorytacticalgear.com/s...fender-system/
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  #92  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:30 PM
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Don't forget: bulletproofme.com. and their police surplus, good deals!
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  #93  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostfish View Post
Has anyone had experience with these? If so, thoughts?

http://www.victorytacticalgear.com/s...2-stand-alone/

With carrier...

http://www.victorytacticalgear.com/s...fender-system/
Tested to NIJ Standard–0101.06 doesn't equal "certified." They don't show up on the NIJ tested and certified list. Last I heard DocGKR wasn't too fond of them either (for reasons uknown to me though).
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  #94  
Old 04-12-2013, 3:28 AM
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What is the best way to store your armor? I was told by one bloke that laying flat is best and then again by a guy that professed to know everything about armor and said the best is to hang it on one of those rounded hangers for scuba type dive suits. Then read something that contradicted the "all knowing" that said by hanging the fibers actually start separating. Hanging is the best option, but not at the cost of rendering the vest ineffective against hits.
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  #95  
Old 04-12-2013, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tenbender View Post
hanging the fibers actually start separating. Hanging is the best option, but not at the cost of rendering the vest ineffective against hits.
That doesn't make sense that a bulletproof and rugged material would fall apart simply by hanging by its own weight from a hanger... I'm sure all those 20+yr old kevlar vests that still work perfectly weren't handled with such care. You should be fine as long as however you store it minimizes creases.
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  #96  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:08 PM
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Lostfish- A good determinant is not just the NIJ .06 tests. If it also passes the FBI test protocol, I would say that it is good enough. This protocol requires the armor to pass contact shot testing. For hard armor, if it passes NIJ .06 testing, that is more than sufficient.

LCU- As long as the vests are 100% woven Kevlar. As stated before, BPme does sell vests that contain laminates. Their helmets and rifle plates are GTG.

Tenbender- Store them off the hanger. This admonition is mostly for the benefit of the carrier, which experiences stretching and distortion of the upper suspension system if hung from hangers. The armor is designed to have the weight/tension distributed by being worn, and all the straps bearing the weight. Elastic will stretch out and become useless if hung on a hanger for long periods of time. The fibers will not separate, that is absolute bollocks.

Also, store it in the dark if possible. The large tupperware containers work well.

Last edited by d-r; 04-12-2013 at 12:12 PM..
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  #97  
Old 04-14-2013, 4:32 PM
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I bought an ar500 package for s** & gigs, and possible future emergencies. For how cheap it was why not. But the damn 6x8 side plates don't Velcro shut on the side pouches on the "operator II" aka condor plate carrier it comes with. It's about an inch too short to solidly secure it. Guess I gotta sew on some Velcro extensions or something. Pretty bulky and heavy though.
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  #98  
Old 04-14-2013, 4:50 PM
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i got 6x6 and they fit fine, i think 6x6 was the max?
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  #99  
Old 04-14-2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
i got 6x6 and they fit fine, i think 6x6 was the max?
Operator II/condor is advertised that holds both 6x6 and 6x8. It pulls out a lil extra for the 6x8 but not quite enough. The package they sell only lets you get 6x8 and that carrier together. Musta got a dud carrier. I really would like a completely better set up since its heavy. But for the probability that ill never need them/use it I can't justify the high prices on lighter set up
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  #100  
Old 04-14-2013, 6:18 PM
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i have a condor MOPC and a Shellback Banshee.

the mopc does say 6x8...
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  #101  
Old 04-14-2013, 7:07 PM
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I have esapis rocking in my plate carrier defeats 308 AP lol
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  #102  
Old 04-17-2013, 7:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
i have a condor MOPC and a Shellback Banshee.

the mopc does say 6x8...
Ya that's the condor I have. Not sure why all the body armor retailers choose to call it "operator II" and not say what your actually getting, when all they send you is a condor mopc. I got some Velcro straps. Hopefully it holds up after I sew it. Luckily plate carriers aren't too expensive compared to the actual plates. Maybe ill get lucky and win on some lotto scratchers from 7-11 and afford a bad *** set up haha
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  #103  
Old 04-17-2013, 8:34 PM
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anyone have any experience of info with this package from strike industires?
http://strikeindustries.com/shop/ind...carrier-2.html
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  #104  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiksilvern7 View Post
anyone have any experience of info with this package from strike industires?
http://strikeindustries.com/shop/ind...carrier-2.html
Why would you want a hard plate that's only level IIIa? For pretty much the same price you can get Velocity Systems IIIa soft backers. That plate is also as heavy as a level III plate.

Last edited by FaRKle!; 04-19-2013 at 10:22 AM..
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  #105  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Why would you want a hard plate that's only level IIIa? For pretty much the same price you can get Velocity Systems IIIa soft backers. That plate is also as heavy as a level III plate.
This.

If you are going with large plates, they should be rifle rated. This is the second company making rigid IIIA plates. Get soft armor backers, and rifle plates. You can then dial in the level of protection/weight you need.
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  #106  
Old 04-27-2013, 9:56 AM
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I know a guy with a eagle scalable plate carrier that he got off eBay for like 150$ Large or xl i cant remember. He wants to know a decent steel plate set up ar500 or similar. Just for Walter Mitty and extreme SHTF or TEOTWAKI Since it will likely never be used for real, keeping cost minimal preferred but still have some level of real protection
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  #107  
Old 04-30-2013, 5:05 PM
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Hello all, I'm new to the boards as well as the BA equipment and am looking to add BA to my BOB and was hoping for some advise. I'm been searching the net but honestly it seems like there are a ton of manufactures out there all claiming to be the best. I'm looking for some gear that can be multi use, that has soft armor with the option of adding plates, that's comfortable and can be used as a rig as well. I've come across "Paraclete Advanced Releasable Hard Plate Carrier, http://www.gearzonetactical.com/Paraclete-Advanced-Releasable-Hard-Plate-Carrier_p_3255.html" and was wondering if anyone had experience with it and or what your thoughts are? All advise/feedback is welcome and thank you in advance.
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  #108  
Old 05-04-2013, 9:27 AM
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IM sent Wil.
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  #109  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:01 AM
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i like my condor mopc and ar500 plates. i just run the front and back plates, i don't run any side plates, i figure if something goes down i will either be facing the threat or running away!
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  #110  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riflehobbyist View Post
i like my condor mopc and ar500 plates. i just run the front and back plates, i don't run any side plates, i figure if something goes down i will either be facing the threat or running away!
Condor items are hit and miss with their quality control.
With have heavy plates in it, you may want to start wearing it while training to make sure your seams are going to hold up under heavy use. If you haven't already. Since the plate carrier is literally something you are betting your life on, might want to ensure it's going to hold up.

I have a Condor soft shell jacket that has withstood a beating but I also have a Condor pouch that started breaking the seams with heavy use. After some googling, it seems that that's a common problem with Condor (hit and miss quality control on their products).
After some research on companies like Rothco and Condor, I've tried to avoid the products just so I don't have to worry about it. Just to be on the safe side.
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  #111  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:09 PM
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i agree with your assessment, some condor products vary but overall i've had a great experience with their products and it's the best VALUE in my opinion. for the price of 3 condor plate carriers ($55-60 ea) in different colors, it cost the same for 1 higher end carrier. sometimes the spacing on the molle is a bit off but nothing major. on the pouches i use condor and other brands in a mix/match. also i do use my mopc's regularly and have many hours with them hiking or fully loaded out usually 25-30 lbs total without any issues
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  #112  
Old 05-18-2013, 1:39 PM
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Looking at a protective armor international (PAI) vest from a friend. Anyone have Experience with them?
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  #113  
Old 05-19-2013, 3:38 PM
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PAI makes decent vests, make sure the one you are looking at is 100% woven Kevlar for the ballistic package.
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  #114  
Old 05-21-2013, 4:03 PM
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Wore these in Iraq, took two shots from an AK from about 20 meters. I was wearing it on my right leg as a drop leg armor (both legs and both shoulders) it dropped me to my knees, and only left me a bruise... Good pieces of gear..[URL=http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/vflores915/media/IMAG0614.jpg.html][/URL

Last edited by vflores915; 05-21-2013 at 4:08 PM..
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  #115  
Old 05-31-2013, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Answered this on another forum. I am not particularly impressed by DKX Max armor, for the reasons you mentioned- it is an expensive, thick, rigid plate that only gives soft armor protection. If you are going to run rigid plates, they should definitely be rifle rated, or run for a very specific mission (need to move fast, expect blunt objects to be used against you, etc.) If the areal density is below .98 lb.sq. ft. for level IIIA it would be worth considering, but if not, it is a solution in search of a problem. If you are going to spend the money, get a 2.1mm thick curved 10x12 Titanium plate, will accomplish the same thing and be much lighter and thinner.
How about running IIIA rigid plates for better blunt trauma protection? I'm looking for pistol protection only for my Blackhawk STRIKE plate carrier. If DKX sucks that much - would it be a good option to use Velocity Systems BALCS panels for the STRIKE? Not sure it's compatible with Blackhawk's dimensions though.

As for Dyneema vs Kevlar - I'll only use the carrier twice a month in matches, it won't be exposed to heat. I like that Dyneema is slightly lighter and have a little higher ballistic limit (2,030 vs 1,882 fps). Does it make sense to run Dyneema in my case?
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  #116  
Old 05-31-2013, 12:12 PM
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V- Those are outstanding pictures! You were pretty lucky you had armor there, and that the rounds hit the plates. You can see the spalling pattern and where it exited the carriers.

Leo- Never said DKX sucks, just not particularly impressed. They just don't make sense for most circumstances. If you need more blunt trauma protection, and you are going rigid, it makes sense to go with rifle rated plates for the slight increase in weight. if you only need trauma protection and pistol rating, a layer of 3mm closed cell foam behind any standard plate backer is sufficient.

The STRIKE PC will not work with BALCS panels, it requires trapezoidal plate backers. BALCS more closely resembles concealable soft armor in its cut.

Again, my recommendation is for woven aramid only, but I am not going to be fanatical or dogmatic. If you have weighed the costs and benefits, and find Dyneema to meet your needs, then by all means run it. As you said, just make sure you don't leave it in the car, or expose it to heat. The other thing is the breathability, if you are sweating alot, laminates can lead to more heat casualties because of the non-permeability of the material. The only other safety concern is contact shots, and if those are not a high risk for you, then it should be fine.
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  #117  
Old 06-04-2013, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
The STRIKE PC will not work with BALCS panels, it requires trapezoidal plate backers. BALCS more closely resembles concealable soft armor in its cut.
My STIKE Cutaway PC has 4 pockets total, rifle 10x12" ones and big A-shirt-shaped ones both front and back. Blackhawk makes soft IIIA armor for its STRIKE vests, the panels look a lot like BALCS (A-shirt with belly flaps) but the dimensions are probably different.
It's not that important anyway - after a day of testing I've decided to ditch the STRIKE because the ergonomics are not that great:
1) I got a Medium size, and the minimum girth is 42" due to enormous cummerbund, too much for relatively skinny folks. Small size will be too short and with 10" upper chest width.
2) center/bottom of the front MOLLE panel is not attached to the underlying layers, so 4 loaded mag pouches flap a lot. Hook and loop attachment between layers would be nice; I've seen some other carriers have it.

Oh well - back to square 1, choosing a carrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
The other thing is the breathability, if you are sweating alot, laminates can lead to more heat casualties because of the non-permeability of the material. The only other safety concern is contact shots, and if those are not a high risk for you, then it should be fine.
Thanks for the hint! I was running a lightly loaded PC without panels for a few hours and it was already pretty hot, so now I think woven Kevlar is a better option

Last edited by Leonidimus; 06-04-2013 at 10:45 PM..
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  #118  
Old 06-17-2013, 3:13 PM
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I found this to be pretty interesting. Think I'll be picking up some AR500 plates.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/plate-armor-on-a-budget/
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  #119  
Old 06-17-2013, 5:55 PM
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Guitar-nut, excellent post. You can see the details of how the Line-X works against spalling, but is removed after only 2-3 shots. Great article, and I highly recommend the AR500 plates.
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  #120  
Old 06-18-2013, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar-nut View Post
I found this to be pretty interesting. Think I'll be picking up some AR500 plates.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/plate-armor-on-a-budget/
Please don't buy armor based off of backyard grade testing like in that video. I know MAC has some good information, but that video is FAR from SME-quality on rifle plates...

This is a good thread by a vetted SME. Also, recent test by same individual on AR500 armor... Essentially, if possibly facing higher velocity threats (M193), steel-based plates are a bad idea.
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