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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 11-17-2016, 2:35 PM
lavey29 lavey29 is offline
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Default Prepping burnout - Whats the point?

So like most of you, I get great information reading the posts here and on other blogs. I have spent thousands, heck more like tens of thousands on my prepping supplies and still feel that I am only like maybe 25% of where I would like to be. Zombie blasters are expensive as you all know. I have filled up closets and really would need like 2 complete rooms in my house to provide space for everything that I would eventually want to be fully prepared.

Then a dose of reality sets in again. How am I (my family) ever going to survive long term (years) after a catastrophic event that decimates the country? Right now, everything is primarily geared towards bug-in at my house. Some of my neighbors would be allies and I have enough guns and ammo to take care of some zombies for awhile but I can't cover all 4 sides of my house 24/7. Stucco is not going to provide much cover and one fire bomb will take the house out. I am working towards 6 month food and water supply but then what? If my allied neighbors run short they will become threats possibly. If we get nuked, nothing will really matter. Rampant deadly plague via mosquitoes hard to defend against to some degree. Earthquake, maybe my fortress collapses, EMP bad news all the way around, etc..If it gets to the point of having to bug-out, over 50%-75% of my supplies I will probably have to leave there and where do you bug-out to?

I really see only a few options for long term survival. You would have to be totally off the grid and isolated in suitable dwelling with an established water source, available food to hunt or livestock, vegetable and fruit gardens, etc... Ideally you would be in a small self sustaining community of like minded preppers all supporting and looking out for each other. I just don't see this as a viable option given where I presently live in the urban area. So, what is the point of trying to reach a certain level of preparation and spending all this money when the outlook for long term survival is not promising at all? I think I would be lucky to get past 3 months with my family alive given my current housing location and level of preparation and that depends on what type of catastrophic event hits us. If you aint in the sticks and fully independent off the grid then you aint gonna survive long term. Short term yes but years, no way. Just wonder if doing further prepping at home is even worth the time, effort and money. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 11-17-2016, 2:48 PM
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Well, it looks like you figured it out. RIGHT. Short term (few weeks or a month) to "get by". THAT's what prepping is about. Nothing more. There is very little that 350 MILLION people in this country can do to survive in an agrarian/hunter gatherer economy. There simply isn't enough open space or resources for us to live on our own. It takes tens if not hundreds of acres per person of open space to support a single person with 18th century technology and land utilization. There simply isn't enough land in the US (or the world for it's population) to live like it's 1750 again. So don't bother trying.

The good news? Despite what the tinfoil hat folks claim, there is virtually NO catastrophe that will topple the US economy/government all at once or for any period of time long enough that you would have to revert back to hunting and gathering. (really)
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Old 11-17-2016, 2:54 PM
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Hmm never thought about it like that....

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Old 11-17-2016, 3:05 PM
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Earthquake would be a local disaster and most of America (and the world) would still be around. FEMA and Red Cross will probably be on the scene in a matter of days or a few weeks at most. If you don't die from a house collapse or fire, you'll be fine.

In a nuclear war, even if you're in a rural area far away from any nuclear detonations, you'll still probably die from radioactive fallout. This is why people build fallout shelters.

Zombies don't exist so don't worry about those.

EMP that knocks out the world's electrical grid permanently, that is probably the most likely "end of the world" scenario that you will face. If you have enough food and water to survive 6 months, I'd say you're doing pretty good. I'm not sure why you're worried about someone firebombing your house, starving people will want to beg/steal/rob your food, not burn it down. Plus starving half-crazed people will not be walking around with jugs of gasoline and lighter to see how many houses they can burn down. Guns and knives, sure.

In your situation I'd train all my family members how to shoot. Take turns guarding the house. A good dog will help a lot here.

In 6 months vast majority of the population will be dead. Opportunities will open up. You should already be scouting for nearby wilderness areas or farmland that you can relocate to. I would say look around within 100 miles of your current location. You can walk 100 miles in a week or less, if you're healthy and have enough provisions.

Last edited by UFO hunter; 11-17-2016 at 3:11 PM..
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:09 PM
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Not saying it couldn't happen but a wholesale collapse of everything for a prolonged period (year plus) is very difficult to prepare for... maybe millionaires can do it but it's beyond most average joes. You need sizeable land, ability to defend/protect it, and manpower to work it so it produces. That's a tall order, and in a mass collapse situation largely a pipedream anytime in the first year or two while the die-off is taking place.

I prep with the idea that I am buying time and multiplying my options. It is no guarantee of anything other than I will have a little breathing room in which to assess/think, and more tools which provide me with a wider array of potential solutions to whatever problem comes up.

You can go crazy and broke as you "what if" yourself into an early grave, a sanitorium, or bankruptcy court. Or, you can try to live a balanced life where you are prepared for the most likely scenarios and are able to leverage most of your preps for dual duty - i.e. have a "hobby" of some sort which dovetails with your prepping. That way you use the things you acquire to prep, so you get some use and enjoyment out of them even if nothing happens. So your BOV becomes your 4-wheeler or camping RV. Your BOB becomes your backpacking trail bag. Your guns become your shooting competition firearms or your hunting guns. You get the idea. Try to have as much of this kind of overlap as possible. This way your life is getting bigger as you immerse yourself into more fun and entertaining activities, rather than smaller as you simply hoarde stuff you never use because you might need to hunker in a bunker some day.

It would be a terrible thing for you and your family to check out early because you weren't prepared for something a reasonable person could anticipate and prepare for... however I think it would be a bigger tragedy to withdraw from the world, giving up so much of what life has to offer here and now, on the off-chance that someday, somehow, a SHTF situation will emerge and you were afraid you wouldn't have enough stuff to get through it. That's not how happy families live... that's not how well-adjusted people live. And is that a life that is really worth "saving" anyway?

Sure, I prep. I prep hard and like OP I have spent probably 10's of K's on gear, tools, equipment, supplies that absent any kind of prepping, I just would not have. But I take care not to let prepping consume my life. I get out, I live, I have fun, and I make sure my wife is having a good life. When is it enough? When prepping stops being a way to improve and enhance your life, and becomes a substitute for actually living. When you find you are not happy any more, because it has become all-consuming to the point that you are neglecting to enjoy and share the life you have here and now. I'm not saying never make what some would consider a "sacrifice" in order to provide preps... but is Disneyland every 2 weeks in the summer and a European vacation really necessary to enjoy your life? How about camping once a month instead? Bonfires, smores, and board games, all while spending time with the family? That's cheap, but priceless. Learn to look at life in terms of these kinds of economies... that's your path to living your life as a happy prepper.
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:10 PM
lavey29 lavey29 is offline
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Well, it looks like you figured it out. RIGHT. Short term (few weeks or a month) to "get by". THAT's what prepping is about. Nothing more. There is very little that 350 MILLION people in this country can do to survive in an agrarian/hunter gatherer economy. There simply isn't enough open space or resources for us to live on our own. It takes tens if not hundreds of acres per person of open space to support a single person with 18th century technology and land utilization. There simply isn't enough land in the US (or the world for it's population) to live like it's 1750 again. So don't bother trying.

The good news? Despite what the tinfoil hat folks claim, there is virtually NO catastrophe that will topple the US economy/government all at once or for any period of time long enough that you would have to revert back to hunting and gathering. (really)

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing but I do think there are scenarios that could easily take us back to 1750 taking out the government and economy. Now I totally agree with you that there is not enough resources for long term civil era type survival.
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:15 PM
lavey29 lavey29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Not saying it couldn't happen but a wholesale collapse of everything for a prolonged period (year plus) is very difficult to prepare for... maybe millionaires can do it but it's beyond most average joes. You need sizeable land, ability to defend/protect it, and manpower to work it so it produces. That's a tall order, and in a mass collapse situation largely a pipedream anytime in the first year or two while the die-off is taking place.

I prep with the idea that I am buying time and multiplying my options. It is no guarantee of anything other than I will have a little breathing room in which to assess/think, and more tools which provide me with a wider array of potential solutions to whatever problem comes up.

You can go crazy and broke as you "what if" yourself into an early grave, a sanitorium, or bankruptcy court. Or, you can try to live a balanced life where you are prepared for the most likely scenarios and are able to leverage most of your preps for dual duty - i.e. have a "hobby" of some sort which dovetails with your prepping. That way you use the things you acquire to prep, so you get some use and enjoyment out of them even if nothing happens. So your BOV becomes your 4-wheeler or camping RV. Your BOB becomes your backpacking trail bag. Your guns become your shooting competition firearms or your hunting guns. You get the idea. Try to have as much of this kind of overlap as possible. This way your life is getting bigger as you immerse yourself into more fun and entertaining activities, rather than smaller as you simply hoarde stuff you never use because you might need to hunker in a bunker some day.

It would be a terrible thing for you and your family to check out early because you weren't prepared for something a reasonable person could anticipate and prepare for... however I think it would be a bigger tragedy to withdraw from the world, giving up so much of what life has to offer here and now, on the off-chance that someday, somehow, a SHTF situation will emerge and you were afraid you wouldn't have enough stuff to get through it. That's not how happy families live... that's not how well-adjusted people live. And is that a life that is really worth "saving" anyway?

Sure, I prep. I prep hard and like OP I have spent probably 10's of K's on gear, tools, equipment, supplies that absent any kind of prepping, I just would not have. But I take care not to let prepping consume my life. I get out, I live, I have fun, and I make sure my wife is having a good life. When is it enough? When prepping stops being a way to improve and enhance your life, and becomes a substitute for actually living. When you find you are not happy any more, because it has become all-consuming to the point that you are neglecting to enjoy and share the life you have here and now. I'm not saying never make what some would consider a "sacrifice" in order to provide preps... but is Disneyland every 2 weeks in the summer and a European vacation really necessary to enjoy your life? How about camping once a month instead? Bonfires, smores, and board games, all while spending time with the family? That's cheap, but priceless. Learn to look at life in terms of these kinds of economies... that's your path to living your life as a happy prepper.


Very well stated and totally agree. I am not consumed by it at all but while going through my stuff and organizing and cataloging I just sat there and started thinking WHY? Why do I do all of this and spend all of this money when in reality, I can't ensure my families survival over the long term at all? Maybe then the nice vacation is a better option?
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UFO hunter View Post
Earthquake would be a local disaster and most of America (and the world) would still be around. FEMA and Red Cross will probably be on the scene in a matter of days or a few weeks at most. If you don't die from a house collapse or fire, you'll be fine.

In a nuclear war, even if you're in a rural area far away from any nuclear detonations, you'll still probably die from radioactive fallout. This is why people build fallout shelters.

Zombies don't exist so don't worry about those.

EMP that knocks out the world's electrical grid permanently, that is probably the most likely "end of the world" scenario that you will face. If you have enough food and water to survive 6 months, I'd say you're doing pretty good. I'm not sure why you're worried about someone firebombing your house, starving people will want to beg/steal/rob your food, not burn it down. Plus starving half-crazed people will not be walking around with jugs of gasoline and lighter to see how many houses they can burn down. Guns and knives, sure.

In your situation I'd train all my family members how to shoot. Take turns guarding the house. A good dog will help a lot here.

In 6 months vast majority of the population will be dead. Opportunities will open up. You should already be scouting for nearby wilderness areas or farmland that you can relocate to. I would say look around within 100 miles of your current location. You can walk 100 miles in a week or less, if you're healthy and have enough provisions.

Good points, some of which I am already doing. I figure if it is a situation that is going to last past 3 months then I will have to get them to a more isolated area with water and food sources along with shelter. The mountain areas which are about 45 miles away seem like the only option with a lake and hunting and empty vacation homes.
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:31 PM
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All it takes is one natural disaster new you. You have enough supplies to take of your family for two weeks till things are normal.again. then everything you have was.priceless and the family will help more. My cousin lives in temple city. When we had big winds one year . it took out the power lines. She lived on the next street over from the down power lines. No power for 5 days. The family went and stayed with her mother. And to this day they still don't prep for an emergency. I tell friends to prep for a month of food and any supplies. I prep for.than a month. My 12 foot trailer won't hold everything. I won't stop. I won't rely on the govt helping me with food and shelter. Remember New Orleans.
I have been buying and rotating my supplies for 30 years.
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Old 11-17-2016, 3:49 PM
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OP, imho you're on a great path, no reason to doubt yourself, just stick with it.

Imho the world is never going back to the 1700's, but there are a few scenarios where things could be very bad for a long time.

If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend Ferfal's book; "Surviving Economic Collapse", which describes what I'm afraid is coming eventually to the U.S.

A short summary of what life would be like is here, all your preparations OP will be very helpful:

"Life after an Economic Collapse: The same… only Worse Part I"

http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/3760
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Old 11-17-2016, 4:22 PM
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Just come to terms with your (and loved ones) mortality. We are all born dying.

All you can do is do the best you can and put your trust in whatever higher power you may believe in.


.
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Old 11-17-2016, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lavey29 View Post
Very well stated and totally agree. I am not consumed by it at all but while going through my stuff and organizing and cataloging I just sat there and started thinking WHY? Why do I do all of this and spend all of this money when in reality, I can't ensure my families survival over the long term at all? Maybe then the nice vacation is a better option?
A family vacation at Disneyland. Given the pricing of admission, lodging, food, etc, you could blow your lifetime prepper budget in a week. The added benefit is people well consider this completely normal.
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Old 11-17-2016, 4:37 PM
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run a vegetable garden, raise a chicken coop, build a well or rain collection/storage system.

Enjoy life the other 9/10th's of the time you're not prepping.
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Old 11-17-2016, 4:44 PM
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A little bit of preps on your part is 10x what other people have.

Notice how grocery stores / hardware stores always get cleaned out whenever a Hurricane appears headed for landfall.

Just cover the basics for about two to three weeks.

EMP, Nukes, Yellowstone blowing, etc. is good for the movies.

.
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Old 11-17-2016, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
A family vacation at Disneyland. Given the pricing of admission, lodging, food, etc, you could blow your lifetime prepper budget in a week. The added benefit is people well consider this completely normal.
Also note that even with the nicest preps, going on vacation like that is likely to separate you from your gear and such - and if the whatever-it-is happens on your vacation, you'll be in much the same boat as millions of others nearby.

I'd go on vacation anyway.
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Old 11-17-2016, 6:07 PM
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We have this thing called the Pacific Ocean. Incredible bounty.
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Old 11-17-2016, 6:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -aK- View Post
run a vegetable garden, raise a chicken coop, build a well or rain collection/storage system.

Enjoy life the other 9/10th's of the time you're not prepping.
Maybe get out to the burbs and do this, you don't have to leave civilization. It would be better for the kids either way. You can do a lot on a 3/4 acre lot.
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Old 11-17-2016, 6:34 PM
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Sounds like you're driving yourself a little nutso. Take a couple year break from it and get some new perspective then. You were obsessed with it. Couple grand of long term food, good water supply and a few guns/boolits will tide you over any disaster. Use your noggin, in the end that's really your only assets. There's going to be tons of resources laying on the ground everywhere should SHTF.

Don't forget the Gold for the plane ride to that island cool peeps and bikini clad women hang out at
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Old 11-17-2016, 8:35 PM
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Your post is timely. I was just about to post a similar post.

YOU WILL NEVER BE READY FOR LONG TERM, EVER!

Heck I dont even think seal team 6 with uncle sugars money could get ready for long term.

It is an impossible feat. We moved to the Pac-NW and traded in our lives to do so. We have a house almost built on land we bought by a lake and its still not reasonable for us to think we would survive. I will never have everything I need. Heck we make a trip to town almost everyday for this or that. If it all came to an end we would suffer greatly.

The people here can hunt and the forests would be stripped clean in 2 weeks of ALL food animals. The lakes would be next as almost all people here fish and hunt. We would have water and food we stored but not all the other things you rely on.

Survival, bugging out and all the other prepper stuff are just wishful thinking.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:08 PM
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Well it seems like most don't have a lot of faith in themselves.

People that know how to be self sufficient will do just fine. It is in the last 50 years people have forgotten how to take care of themselves. It gets worse everyday.

People with far less than we have have flourished thru drought, famine, sickness and far worse and did just fine.

Suck it up butter cup, it may be tough, but it beats dead.
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Old 11-18-2016, 4:21 AM
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Prepare for something more realistic like flood or earthquake
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Old 11-18-2016, 5:34 AM
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Don't prep for the unlikely event, prep for the likely event.

You live in Kalifornia, so prep for Earthquake.

You won't need to do more then a 30 day supply for your family. EVERY Earthquake here was localized and temporary.

Just as I buy a Fire Extinguisher and go on with my life, I prep for a Earthquake and then enjoy living in the Best Country in the World with all that it offers.

Don't worry about if after you take the basic steps.

Now I did go a little beyond, wife has a 25X25' raised bed garden, she has learned to can, preserve and make a Killer Salsa. Pumpkin Pie and Pumpkin Chocolate Chip Muffins using your own Pumpkins are fun as well.

We have numerous fruit trees, the fact that some of them happen to go great in a drink is a bonus, Mexican Limes, Blood Orange, etc.

We have Goats, low maintenance Weed Control and post harvest Garden clean up...

Chicken Coop being finished this month...we like Eggs and yet more Pets...

Simple stuff that might help in a Crisis. They don't change our lifestyle much but add to my retirement activities to fill my days...
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
All it takes is one natural disaster new you. You have enough supplies to take of your family for two weeks till things are normal.again. then everything you have was.priceless and the family will help more. My cousin lives in temple city. When we had big winds one year . it took out the power lines. She lived on the next street over from the down power lines. No power for 5 days. The family went and stayed with her mother. And to this day they still don't prep for an emergency. I tell friends to prep for a month of food and any supplies. I prep for.than a month. My 12 foot trailer won't hold everything. I won't stop. I won't rely on the govt helping me with food and shelter. Remember New Orleans.
I have been buying and rotating my supplies for 30 years.

Short term survival is readily achievable with prepping, my concern is long term and that appears to be very hard to reach if at all.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudakidd View Post
Don't prep for the unlikely event, prep for the likely event.

You live in Kalifornia, so prep for Earthquake.

You won't need to do more then a 30 day supply for your family. EVERY Earthquake here was localized and temporary.

Just as I buy a Fire Extinguisher and go on with my life, I prep for a Earthquake and then enjoy living in the Best Country in the World with all that it offers.

Don't worry about if after you take the basic steps.

Now I did go a little beyond, wife has a 25X25' raised bed garden, she has learned to can, preserve and make a Killer Salsa. Pumpkin Pie and Pumpkin Chocolate Chip Muffins using your own Pumpkins are fun as well.

We have numerous fruit trees, the fact that some of them happen to go great in a drink is a bonus, Mexican Limes, Blood Orange, etc.

We have Goats, low maintenance Weed Control and post harvest Garden clean up...

Chicken Coop being finished this month...we like Eggs and yet more Pets...

Simple stuff that might help in a Crisis. They don't change our lifestyle much but add to my retirement activities to fill my days...

Of course earthquake is high on the list. Not zoned for farm animals where I live. The garden ideas are good of course.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:37 AM
lavey29 lavey29 is offline
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Well it seems like most don't have a lot of faith in themselves.

People that know how to be self sufficient will do just fine. It is in the last 50 years people have forgotten how to take care of themselves. It gets worse everyday.

People with far less than we have have flourished thru drought, famine, sickness and far worse and did just fine.

Suck it up butter cup, it may be tough, but it beats dead.

I have to disagree. People do not flourish in disaster or war zones. They struggle daily to survive and most do not in the long term. Prepping is essential of course ut my thinking is no amount or money spent on prepping (for my situation) is going to provide long term sustainability. Short and mid term perhaps but years, no way. You have to be in an isolated area totally off grid and totally self supporting sufficient.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:39 AM
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Your post is timely. I was just about to post a similar post.

YOU WILL NEVER BE READY FOR LONG TERM, EVER!

Heck I dont even think seal team 6 with uncle sugars money could get ready for long term.

It is an impossible feat. We moved to the Pac-NW and traded in our lives to do so. We have a house almost built on land we bought by a lake and its still not reasonable for us to think we would survive. I will never have everything I need. Heck we make a trip to town almost everyday for this or that. If it all came to an end we would suffer greatly.

The people here can hunt and the forests would be stripped clean in 2 weeks of ALL food animals. The lakes would be next as almost all people here fish and hunt. We would have water and food we stored but not all the other things you rely on.

Survival, bugging out and all the other prepper stuff are just wishful thinking.

Agree with your assessment and you are more off the grid then me by far. Long term seems to be a goal that can not be reached by most for sure.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:42 AM
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Sounds like you're driving yourself a little nutso. Take a couple year break from it and get some new perspective then. You were obsessed with it. Couple grand of long term food, good water supply and a few guns/boolits will tide you over any disaster. Use your noggin, in the end that's really your only assets. There's going to be tons of resources laying on the ground everywhere should SHTF.

Don't forget the Gold for the plane ride to that island cool peeps and bikini clad women hang out at

Not obsessed at all just trying to be realistic in my achievable goals. Resources on the ground? Food and water will rapidly disappear. There will be scraps on the ground that might be occasionally usable. Short or mid term survival is obtained through good prepping my concern is long term and unless you have a plane to get to that isolated island with everything waiting there then long term is not happening for you or your family.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:45 AM
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Great comments already posted. It does sound like additional prepping for a long-term situation isn't going to help you much, but that doesn't mean what you've already done is pointless. Sounds like you're already prepped for the most likely unlikely disruption events. My opinion is relax and enjoy life. If you're dead set on prepping for a long-term survival solution, well, you'll need to make some major life changes that may or may not be worth it to you and family.
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Old 11-18-2016, 8:59 AM
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Great comments already posted. It does sound like additional prepping for a long-term situation isn't going to help you much, but that doesn't mean what you've already done is pointless. Sounds like you're already prepped for the most likely unlikely disruption events. My opinion is relax and enjoy life. If you're dead set on prepping for a long-term survival solution, well, you'll need to make some major life changes that may or may not be worth it to you and family.


Totally agree, a move to an isolated area would be key but what a disruption to my family life and child development (soccer, neighbor kids to play with, etc...). Seems like the bus ride to the FEMA death camp is inevitable for everyone?
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:01 AM
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I have to disagree. People do not flourish in disaster or war zones. They struggle daily to survive and most do not in the long term. Prepping is essential of course ut my thinking is no amount or money spent on prepping (for my situation) is going to provide long term sustainability. Short and mid term perhaps but years, no way. You have to be in an isolated area totally off grid and totally self supporting sufficient.
We have a better plan implemented than most family's have. Sounds like you have never lived out in the sticks on a ranch. We do.
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:13 AM
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Very well stated and totally agree. I am not consumed by it at all but while going through my stuff and organizing and cataloging I just sat there and started thinking WHY? Why do I do all of this and spend all of this money when in reality, I can't ensure my families survival over the long term at all? Maybe then the nice vacation is a better option?
Maybe I am not understanding the question.

It seems to be asking, "since I cannot prepare in any meaningful way for an Extinction Level Event (ELE) (Yellowstone caldera, nuclear war, asteroid strike, sun exploding) then why should I bother preparing for a power outage, an earthquake, massive wildfires, a financial crash & depression, etc etc. I mean, what's the point of preparing for some of it if you can't prepare for all of it..."

Am I reading right, or is there some subtle distinction I am missing somewhere?

The point of prepping for the common emergencies is to make them less uncomfortable and more survivable. To give yourself options, and more time to think, plan, and take compensating action than those who do not prepare.

IMHO there is little point of trying to prepare for the ELE events unless you are prepared to build an impenetrable bunker similar to SAC/NORAD burrowed deep into the stone of a mountain with provisions to last 100 years. For most of us, that's not practical in any sense because either the resources just are not there, or the sacrifices required would make everyday life just unbearably austere.

Even to adequately prepare for a less-than-ELE but world-changing circumstance such as an EMP or Carrington event requires you to have a live-in property in a remote but farmable area, with significant natural and/or man-made barriers, productive farmland, the ability to produce from that land in a sustainable, subsistence level. It was done by our ancestors and could be done again, PROVIDED the skills, tech, and manpower are present. Those are all a TALL ORDER considering it's not a "prep" you buy and put in a bucket somewhere because you might need it some day, it is a lifestyle that you live every day. Most folks do not want to live that kind of hard-scrabble life these days.

What is the point? Only you can answer that. Keep your goals and your abilities in sync, you shouldn't have a problem. Expect a guarantee of safety through an ELE? Unless you're really an exception, you're dreaming. Take a nice long drink from the dose-of-reality bucket, and realize that we all die eventually, yes even people we care about, and all we can do is make resonable provision for events we can reasonably anticipate, and trust the fates for the rest.

If instead the question is "Why should I be an ant? The grasshopper family across the street goes on European vacation every 2 years. They eat at Ruths Chris at least once a month. Their kids have a season pass to Disneyland every year. They have a swimming pool in the back yard and drive new cars on a lease every 2-3 years. Why am I bothering sacrificing and saving and living frugally when we could both die tomorrow?" then it's a choice of lifestyle. Certainly there are people who live SO frugally they never have any fun or any nice things. To me, that's no way to live. But instead of Europe every two years... how about once or twice, maybe for a 10th and again for a 20th anniversary? How about driving that car 10-15 years with decent maintenance? How about Six Flags once a summer, and Disney for the kids once when they are 10 and again when they graduate High School? How about the water park twice a summer instead of the cost and upkeep of your own personal pool? Running through the sprinklers in the yard can be a lot of fun, ever see a Slip & Slide? Instead of movie theater every week, how about movie night at home with popcorn and save the theater for a couple blockbuster releases that the family really wants to see on the big screen?

I'm an advocate for having fun in tandem with your prepping, but there is a lot of "frugal fun" to be had out there. People get accustomed to extravagant lifestyles, and statistics show, they really are not happier than the rest of us. You will get more life in your years by slowing down and engaging with your family and friends, than you will by living an extravagant lifestyle. And isn't that in effect the same as surviving longer, even if you die on the same day? There's living, and there's surviving - one at the expense of the other does one little good IMHO.
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Last edited by bruss01; 11-18-2016 at 9:28 AM..
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  #32  
Old 11-18-2016, 9:16 AM
lavey29 lavey29 is offline
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We have a better plan implemented than most family's have. Sounds like you have never lived out in the sticks on a ranch. We do.

Certainly living in the sticks (ranch) provides you and your family an advantage. As you can see by my posts, I feel that is one of the only ways to get close to long term survivability. Totally isolated and self sustaining sufficient.
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:23 AM
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Then a dose of reality sets in again. How am I (my family) ever going to survive long term (years) after a catastrophic event that decimates the country?
I prep for:
  • No more than 6 weeks of limited public services here in LA. After that I prep to ...
  • Bug out to the family farm in Oregon.

Done.

It's not going to completely and permanently collapse overnight, although it may very well completely collapse locally and temporarily in a heartbeat.
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Maybe I am not understanding the question.

It seems to be asking, "since I cannot prepare in any meaningful way for an Extinction Level Event (ELE) (Yellowstone caldera, nuclear war, asteroid strike, sun exploding) then why should I bother preparing for a power outage, an earthquake, massive wildfires, a financial crash & depression, etc etc. I mean, what's the point of preparing for some of it if you can't prepare for all of it..."

Am I reading right, or is there some subtle distinction I am missing somewhere?

The point of prepping for the common emergencies is to make them less uncomfortable and more survivable. To give yourself options, and more time to think, plan, and take compensating action than those who do not prepare.

IMHO there is little point of trying to prepare for the ELE events unless you are prepared to build an impenetrable bunker similar to SAC/NORAD burrowed deep into the stone of a mountain with provisions to last 100 years. For most of us, that's not practical in any sense because either the resources just are not there, or the sacrifices required would make everyday life just unbearably austere.

Even to adequately prepare for a less-than-ELE but world-changing circumstance such as an EMP or Carrington event requires you to have a live-in property in a remote but farmable area, with significant natural and/or man-made barriers, productive farmland, the ability to produce from that land in a sustainable, subsistence level. It was done by our ancestors and could be done again, PROVIDED the skills, tech, and manpower are present. Those are all a TALL ORDER considering it's not a "prep" you buy and put in a bucket somewhere because you might need it some day, it is a lifestyle that you live every day. Most folks do not want to live that kind of hard-scrabble life these days.

What is the point? Only you can answer that. Keep your goals and your abilities in sync, you shouldn't have a problem. Expect a guarantee of safety through an ELE? Unless you're really an exception, you're dreaming. Take a nice long drink from the dose-of-reality bucket, and realize that we all die eventually, yes even people we care about, and all we can do is make resonable provision for events we can reasonably anticipate, and trust the fates for the rest.

Pretty much sums it up. When I started prepping years back, I envisioned being able to survive pretty much anything and everything (with some luck) as long as I had prepared properly. As the years have gone by and the dollars spent, I go through my stuff catalog what I have, what I need to replace and what I would like to acquire but then I start thinking "what difference is it going to make"?. Certain scenarios (ELE as you describe) will make it virtually impossible to survive even short or mid term and forget long term. So, have I reached a prep level now that does not need any more time and money put into it or is it worth while to keep adding? Is my 3 month supply good or should I really stock and push for 6 months or a year? Why? In the the big ELE picture will it really matter?
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
I prep for:
  • No more than 6 weeks of limited public services here in LA. After that I prep to ...
  • Bug out to the family farm in Oregon.

Done.

It's not going to completely and permanently collapse overnight, although it may very well completely collapse locally and temporarily in a heartbeat.

Great to have a plan. Hiking to Oregon will be a tough one though but do able.
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:30 AM
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Totally agree, a move to an isolated area would be key but what a disruption to my family life and child development (soccer, neighbor kids to play with, etc...). Seems like the bus ride to the FEMA death camp is inevitable for everyone?
If FEMA has functional camps setup, the federal government is still functioning and it's not a true ELE where long-term self-sustaining survival would be a necessity. 3-months of preps is going to cover you for the vast majority of disruption events. Perhaps you've over estimated the probability of 0.00001% events occurring.

Take a short break from thinking about preps and disruption events and recognize you're in a better situation than 99.9% of the humans on this planet. It's a good place to be all things considered.
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Old 11-18-2016, 9:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
If FEMA has functional camps setup, the federal government is still functioning and it's not a true ELE where long-term self-sustaining survival would be a necessity. 3-months of preps is going to cover you for the vast majority of disruption events. Perhaps you've over estimated the probability of 0.00001% events occurring.

Take a short break from thinking about preps and disruption events and recognize you're in a better situation than 99.9% of the humans on this planet. It's a good place to be all things considered.

Thanks, I was being somewhat fictitious with the bus ride comment but have to admit I would never get on one with my family ever. Yes, perhaps a break is required and a change of thought to a realistic goal.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:03 AM
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Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing but I do think there are scenarios that could easily take us back to 1750 taking out the government and economy. Now I totally agree with you that there is not enough resources for long term civil era type survival.
Well, tell us what you think they are? What can take out the US Gov? Any natural disaster is only regional. Massive EMP? Most military facilities are hardened against it so they will be available. War? We're the biggest most powerful military in history and on the planet. Nuclear war perhaps? But then we all have bigger problems than prepping.

So... what do you think would take any substantial part of the country off line and back to the 18th century for more than a few weeks or months?
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
I prep for:
  • No more than 6 weeks of limited public services here in LA. After that I prep to ...
  • Bug out to the family farm in Oregon.

Done.

It's not going to completely and permanently collapse overnight, although it may very well completely collapse locally and temporarily in a heartbeat.
OH OREGON. Glad you are the only one to think about that! I mean if 20 MILLION Californians were traveling north with you (following the water as it were), then.... when you got there.... it would be COMPLETELY OVERUN!
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Well, tell us what you think they are? What can take out the US Gov? Any natural disaster is only regional. Massive EMP? Most military facilities are hardened against it so they will be available. War? We're the biggest most powerful military in history and on the planet. Nuclear war perhaps? But then we all have bigger problems than prepping.

So... what do you think would take any substantial part of the country off line and back to the 18th century for more than a few weeks or months?

In my opinion it could be anything from economic collapse, super plague pandemic illness to the extremes as you describe or a combination of events. Are you counting on the government to step in and save you after a period of time has passed during a catastrophic event that affects the whole country or the world? That book "One second after" gave an interesting view of life after EMP. It is just a matter of time before Iran or NK puts a nuke on a 747 and flies it over here in my opinion. There are so many "what if" scenarios and the government stepping in and saving my family is the last thing that I think will happen. Katrina was an example of government ineptitude and lack of coordination and that was just an isolated natural disaster. Country is on the verge of imploding from within as well due to the far left and far right lines being drawn. We see this continuing to worsen as the years go by and over the next decade when the numbers of socialists far outnumber the constitutionalists the country will fracture and divide. When I am out of food and water, I just don't see the government truck pulling up and restocking me in any way shape or form.
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