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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-04-2011, 4:05 PM
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Default Haynie/Richards - Amended Complaint (CA 'Assault weapon' law challenge)

A couple of weeks ago, I posted that the the court had granted the California DOJ's motion to dimiss our complaint based on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie did not have a realistic chance of being rearrested.

While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again on August 14 in Sonoma County by Sonoma sheriffs for possession of an M1A with what they thought was a flash hider attached. The same criminalist from CA DOJ cleared the weapon and charges were dismissed in September.

As such, we've amended the complaint and taken the position that as applied, PC 12276.1 is unconstitutional as DA's and LEO's continue to arrest people for banned weapons when they are actually innocent and are in fact in possession of arms protected by the Second Amendment. The rest of the filings and the attachments can be found on the docket. We'll also be filing a related case for the most recent unlawful arrest shortly.

-Gene

PS. As posted in the earlier thread, we did have more to say in less than two weeks!
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Last edited by Librarian; 11-23-2011 at 2:45 PM..
  #2  
Old 11-04-2011, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again
How unrealistic.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie did not have a realistic chance of being rearrested.

While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again on August 14 in Sonoma County by Sonoma sheriffs for possession of an M1A with what they thought was a flash hider attached. The same criminalist from CA DOJ cleared the weapon and charges were dismissed in September.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:11 PM
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Okay, wow. At this point, I bet Kamela Harris has put out a bulletin to all law enforcement agencies in the state, saying "Gura is coming for us, so for the love of God don't re-arrest these men!"

GET THEM.

Edit: What are these pistol "gripes" and muzzle "breaks" to which the complaint refers? Are they related to pistol grips and muzzle brakes somehow?

Last edited by Dreaded Claymore; 11-04-2011 at 4:35 PM..
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:15 PM
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Bwaaahahahahahaaa!!!! Thats so awesome. (Well, getting arrested again does suck) What a gift these ignorant LEOs gave us.

Go get em!
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:17 PM
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Let them have it; the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:24 PM
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good job ^5
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again on August 14 in Sonoma County by Sonoma sheriffs for possession of an M1A with what they thought was a flash hider attached. The same criminalist from CA DOJ cleared the weapon and charges were dismissed in September.
How unfortunate for Mr. Richards.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:28 PM
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Just FYI, muzzle brake is misspelled "muzzle break" throughout the document as far as I can tell.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:32 PM
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Once again the courts predictions are inaccurate.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:37 PM
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If ever there was something funny about an innocent man getting arrested, this is it.
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I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:38 PM
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How unrealistic.
How the hell does that even happen? Was he running around in his front yard doing rifle salutes and drills? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot over.
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smn View Post
Once again the courts predictions are inaccurate.
Well, what are the odds that he'll be arrested a third time?
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:41 PM
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Judicial face palm!

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  #15  
Old 11-04-2011, 4:43 PM
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Ha. How epic.

I am thinking of Briar Patch analogies, and also a perfect length of rope.
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2011, 4:44 PM
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Epic.

Lighting never strikes twice in the same place. Oops, yes it does... He he...
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
As such, we've amended the complaint and taken the position that as applied, PC 12276.1 is unconstitutional as DA's and LEO's continue to arrest people for banned weapons when they are actually innocent and are in fact in possession of arms protected by the Second Amendment. -Gene
Uhm, isn't the whole point that the ban itself bans guns that are protected by the 2nd Amendment?
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Old 11-04-2011, 4:50 PM
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Uhm, isn't the whole point that the ban itself bans guns that are protected by the 2nd Amendment?
Yes, however it doesn't matter as to the fact that even if so called AW's could be banned, people can't be arrested for the otherwise legal guns. It's clearly an undue burden in CA-9 to be arrested for possessing legal guns.

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Old 11-04-2011, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
A couple of weeks ago, I posted that the the court had granted the California DOJ's motion to dimiss our complaint based on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie did not have a realistic chance of being rearrested.

While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again on August 14 in Sonoma County by Sonoma sheriffs for possession of an M1A with what they thought was a flash hider attached. The same criminalist from CA DOJ cleared the weapon and charges were dismissed in September.
Based on recent court court history the judge will just grant the California DOJ's upcoming motion to again dismiss our amended complaint based on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie do not have a realistic chance of being re-rearrested. Lather, rise, and repeat until it reads "dismissed based on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie do not have a realistic chance of being re-re-re-re-rearrested."

Oh well keep up the good fight and keep kicking them where it hurts until we win.
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  #20  
Old 11-04-2011, 4:57 PM
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Not that false arrest is a good thing, but it may be in this case.
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  #21  
Old 11-04-2011, 5:10 PM
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Read the amended complaint. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It is really appropriately nasty - seems pretty effectively to gut any argument that the AWB is not unconstitutionally vague.

It appears to be a case with well chosen plaintiffs and the case that CGF has standing was repeatedly made (although I don't recall the case being made quite as well for SAF standing).

I probably should go back to read it again. But I got the impression that Richards was arrested on baseless grounds and the case was brought. The state argued that it was exceedingly unlikely that this was ever going to happen to him again and thus filed a Motion To Dismiss on August 5 - and 9 days later it happened again?!!! But the state pushed on with a MTD which was already proven false?!!!

Seriously. . . To me this case read like a prep for an appeal. I'm not sure what the lower courts are going to do with this - I'm actually thinking that the lower court will find against the good guys, but at that point an appeal would seem exceedingly likely.

As I see it, this case either results in the lower court striking down the AWB with a decent chance the 9th would agree. Or the lower court and 9th disagree and a case tailor made to expand the idea of legal arms (and maybe carry outside the home) goes up to SCOTUS for cert.

The state has destroyed its credibility, but I don't know if that will matter to the lower courts.
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Old 11-04-2011, 5:37 PM
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This is incredible. Faceplam and headshake.

I hope people realize the value of CGF and SAF, as well as the work of the "Right People."

Thank you very much, for all the hard work, and for letting us know!

Here's hoping we are starting to pull out the bricks at the bottom of the wall.
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Old 11-04-2011, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
A couple of weeks ago, I posted that the the court had granted the California DOJ's motion to dimiss our complaint based on the theory that Mr. Richards and Mr. Haynie did not have a realistic chance of being rearrested.

While the MTD was pending, Mr. Richards was actually arrested again on August 14 in Sonoma County by Sonoma sheriffs for possession of an M1A with what they thought was a flash hider attached. The same criminalist from CA DOJ cleared the weapon and charges were dismissed in September.

As such, we've amended the complaint and taken the position that as applied, PC 12276.1 is unconstitutional as DA's and LEO's continue to arrest people for banned weapons when they are actually innocent and are in fact in possession of arms protected by the Second Amendment. The rest of the filings and the attachments can be found on the docket. We'll also be filing a related case for the most recent unlawful arrest shortly.

-Gene

PS. As posted in the earlier thread, we did have more to say in less than two weeks!
WOW, what are the odds of a second arrest....
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Old 11-04-2011, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
WOW, what are the odds of a second arrest....
Apparently greater than "unrealistic."

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Old 11-04-2011, 5:50 PM
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Apparently greater than "unrealistic."

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Obviously...
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Old 11-04-2011, 5:56 PM
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DOJ: "Yeah, but what are the chances he'll get arrested a 3rd time huh?"
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:00 PM
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While it's incredible that he was arrested a second time - it's a pitiful statement on Ca's DOJ that he was arrested at all.

I truly wish that the people responsible for these arrests could share his experience. Spend time in jail, have to raise bail money, separation from normal life, etc. I think if the judge could think about it this way things would indeed be different. Sometimes (IMO) people become isolated from reality.
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
WOW, what are the odds of a second arrest....
Often it's better to be lucky (or should that really be unlucky) than good...

-Gene
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:07 PM
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Despite some of the grammatical errors this is really great.

I wonder if the DOJ will respond with: Plaintiffs can't stil ate to the powers of the court and the judge can force us to clarify the law via memo. In fact, we have a draft right here...
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:08 PM
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Good read and good arguments.

Couple of items:

on page 13 line 8 the word innocence is spelled innocense

in most places "bullet button" is in quotation marks. In one other place it is bullet-button.

Hope it can be re-filed with corrections.
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Often it's better to be lucky (or should that really be unlucky) than good...

-Gene
How many false arrests does it take before one can reasonably take evasive actions to avoid police interaction?
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:17 PM
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The other case that is pending which is mentioned in the motion, is also in Sonoma County
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Often it's better to be lucky (or should that really be unlucky) than good...

-Gene

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Old 11-04-2011, 6:31 PM
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WOW, what are the odds of a second arrest....
1:1, apparently.
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:39 PM
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1:1, apparently.
Good one...

I'll rephrase that; what would an estimate of the odds have been prior to the second arrest?
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:46 PM
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Does any greeting card company make an appropriate card for us to send to the Sonoma sheriff's office saying "Thanks for being conveniently stupid when we needed you" ? Perhaps like you'd send to an easy drunk hookup?
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
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Does any greeting card company make an appropriate card for us to send to the Sonoma sheriff's office saying "Thanks for being conveniently stupid when we needed you" ? Perhaps like you'd send to an easy drunk hookup?
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Old 11-04-2011, 6:51 PM
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Irony and tyranny all at once...
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Old 11-04-2011, 7:12 PM
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Are any of the actual arrest details available? Was he just target shooting or something?
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Old 11-04-2011, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
Are any of the actual arrest details available? Was he just target shooting or something?
It's the story of an unfortunate (finally ex) girlfriend who he once had arrested and convicted for DV. Then she kept calling the police on him. She's a real piece of work. Personally I think the first time he had to call law enforcement on her should have been his sign.

-Gene
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