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  #1  
Old 10-29-2011, 9:44 PM
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Default 2012 Bay Area Rifle Championship - BARC

Hello Everyone,

The 2012 BARC is now open for business on a limited basis.

Registration will open at some point after December 1, 2011, I will keep you posted here and in email blasts to all previous competitors.

Match date: June 24, 2012.

Location: Richmond Rod & Gun Club, Richmond, CA

Most everything will remain unchanged or improved in match format, USPSA hit-factor scoring, USPSA divisions, our special categories and prizes.

Match fee is now $90.00, non-refundable under a week out :-(

Please PM me for more info, but that's about all I have right now except for the promise that the 2012 BARC will be better than ever!

Seeya' all there
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2011, 10:16 PM
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Looking forward to this match again! PM inbound
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2011, 10:27 PM
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Are we finally going to see that mythical 100y range in play?
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2011, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gose View Post
Are we finally going to see that mythical 100y range in play?
If we can, we will, but I ain't promising anything this early in the planning except that this match will be be better than before or I ain't doing my job
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2011, 5:55 AM
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Looking forward to coming out and shooting with you guys again!!
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:16 PM
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I have a new secret weapon for Manual Open...
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2011, 11:41 AM
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Default 2012 BARC Updates

Rules and general information have been updated for 2012

2012 BARC Rules & Info

Sponsors are being organized and there is very good news, the 2012 BARC will be getting a larger level of sponsor support than ever before (much in part due to Chris N's valiant efforts). This will translate to a humongous prize table for 2012 with higher retail prize value down to a much deeper level than last year.

Stage designs are being worked on and will be better than ever.

Registration will open early next month (December). Stay tuned for more details.

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 03-07-2012 at 10:26 AM..
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:31 PM
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280PF for Big Bore, may have to go 7.62x40 WT next year.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
280PF for Big Bore, may have to go 7.62x40 WT next year.
280 is what I have decided on for the moment. Might go with 270 though. Not set in stone until after Jan 1st
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:47 PM
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Wolf 7.62x39 still make PF right?
And come shoot a regular AK with us next year Joe....don't be a puss.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2011, 1:08 PM
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Wolf 7.62x39 still make PF right?
You will have to chrono it and see if it does in your specific gun. I do want the AK's to be able to play so let me know what data you are getting with factory ammo in the AK and I will take this into consideration before I lock this in. 270pf should be doable with most factory fodder in 7.62x39 and 280pf with select factory ammo and easily by reloading your own.

Like I said, this is not locked in stone yet, but I am looking at making it so

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 11-24-2011 at 1:43 PM..
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Old 11-24-2011, 1:18 PM
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From the internet: 123gr will do 2300fps = 282pf. Time to break out the chrono MrNiceGuy.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2011, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
280PF for Big Bore, may have to go 7.62x40 WT next year.
Which is why I would want an 18-20" 300 blk barrel if I were to build one

I read AAC post a load with 175gr SMK that made 320pf for the 300blk through a 16" barrel though.
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2011, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
Rules and general information have been updated for 2012
2012 BARC Rules & Info

Sponsors are being organized and there is very good news, the 2012 BARC will be getting a larger level of sponsor support than ever before (much in part due to Chris N's valiant efforts). This will translate to a humongous prize table for 2012 with higher retail prize value down to a much deeper level than last year.

Stage designs are being worked on and will be better than ever.

Registration will open early next month (December). Stay tuned for more details.
So Big Bore cant walk the prize table first?
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2011, 1:33 PM
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So Big Bore cant walk the prize table first?
Whoever wins the match in combined divisions walks the table first is the way I would have to let it play out according to the hierarchy I have laid out.

I am looking at a higher Big Bore power factor to help reign this possibility in a little now that the one-hit on paper scoring has made Big Bore very competitive in the overall. For 2012 I also changed BB Open to BB Tactical to eliminate bipods, secondary optics and huge muzzle brakes from the division.

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 11-24-2011 at 1:47 PM..
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  #16  
Old 11-24-2011, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
Whoever wins the match in combined divisions walks the table first is the way I would have to let it play out according to the hierarchy I have laid out.

I am looking at a higher Big Bore power factor to help reign this possibility in a little now that the one-hit on paper scoring has made Big Bore very competitive in the overall. For 2012 I also changed BB Open to BB Tactical to eliminate bipods, secondary optics and huge muzzle brakes from the division.
Stage 1 this year, for example, was shot in ~25s by the best tactical shooters. The splits on this stage were probably 0.2-0.3s, so even if you shoot a little slower in BB (though not by very much) you save 10-20% of the stage time. I doubt that could be overcome even with going to 320, one shot / target is just too big of an advantage.
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  #17  
Old 11-24-2011, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gose View Post
Stage 1 this year, for example, was shot in ~25s by the best tactical shooters. The splits on this stage were probably 0.2-0.3s, so even if you shoot a little slower in BB (though not by very much) you save 10-20% of the stage time. I doubt that could be overcome even with going to 320, one shot / target is just too big of an advantage.
Stage designs are also being tweaked to have more high point value steel across the whole match. This and other things IMHO will start to bring some semblance of real and fair parity to overall results in a match like this.

Think of it as an overall "match design" where I looked at what transpired last year and will be nudging things in the general direction I want things to end up at this year by utilizing a lot of small tweaks everywhere to end up with a fairly large change of result where it needs to be

I want to achieve the holy grail of having everyone earn the proper merit within their division AND garner additional compensation from a single prize table via a properly weighted process that rewards real heads up accomplishment across divisions in as fair a process as possible.

In a nutshell, the main end result I am trying to achieve here is a one hit anywhere for major and two anywhere for minor target neutralization schema within USPSA hit factor scoring so I don't have to resort to time plus to make larger calibers competitive again and we still get to keep DVC based scoring and all it's plusses versus time plus. The single prize table for all divisions parity item is just a required step in that process, not the actual final destination :-)

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 11-24-2011 at 3:11 PM..
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  #18  
Old 11-24-2011, 3:17 PM
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btw, is big bore scored as major or minor?
The rules dont really say, so I assume major?

If so, there's another thing to play with
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  #19  
Old 11-24-2011, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gose View Post
btw, is big bore scored as major or minor?
The rules dont really say, so I assume major?

If so, there's another thing to play with
Major, for now

Also, remember, Big Bore and Manual divisions get =20 points for each of their misses, double value, just like they get for hits

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 11-24-2011 at 3:44 PM..
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  #20  
Old 11-24-2011, 3:43 PM
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Last year big bore was minor, right? But you could shoot the other divisions as major.
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  #21  
Old 11-24-2011, 4:04 PM
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Major, for now

Also, remember, Big Bore and Manual divisions get =20 points for each of their misses, double value, just like they get for hits
I'll take a 200 point penalty for mikes if you let me shoot one shot / target in TO
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2011, 6:02 PM
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Last year big bore was minor, right? But you could shoot the other divisions as major.
Big Bore was always Major PF point scores from paper targets. You could choose to shoot in a regular division (2 shots per paper target) if you wished but by choosing so you were not eligible for Big Bore, no one chose to do so
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2011, 6:04 PM
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I'll take a 200 point penalty for mikes if you let me shoot one shot / target in TO
Pump that mousegun up to 280 PF first, then we'll talk
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2011, 9:45 PM
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I think I'll bring out the RFB for this one. I have my loads down
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  #25  
Old 11-25-2011, 8:28 AM
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I think I'll bring out the RFB for this one
Er...guess the rest of the crew gotta pull out our SOCOMS....man....this is gonna be expensive.
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Old 11-25-2011, 9:02 AM
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With any luck, I'll be in open again.... borrying the md's rifle
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  #27  
Old 11-25-2011, 10:19 AM
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With any luck, I'll be in open again.... borrying the md's rifle
Open FTW
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  #28  
Old 11-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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Hiding in open, story of my life
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Old 11-25-2011, 2:38 PM
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I don't care which division I shoot.. Limited.. difficult with my noticeably slowly fading eyesight.. tactical is fine.. manual.. no way, not a chance, never again.. until I build my own, well, it's whatever I can borrow than I trust.. currently, I definitely trust the MD's rifle..
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Old 11-26-2011, 8:56 AM
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Hiding in open, story of my life
Youre not hiding in Open, youre just hiding :P
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  #31  
Old 11-26-2011, 9:08 AM
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Time to break out the chrono MrNiceGuy.
There's a chrono bay next to the case/uncase area in the Richmond Action Pistol range right?
Is the chrono available for use (to chrono an AK) during weekend practice?
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Old 11-26-2011, 9:36 AM
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There's a chrono bay next to the case/uncase area in the Richmond Action Pistol range right?
Is the chrono available for use (to chrono an AK) during weekend practice?
Yes it is, but you need to have an RO present during the chrono
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  #33  
Old 11-26-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gose View Post
Stage 1 this year, for example, was shot in ~25s by the best tactical shooters. The splits on this stage were probably 0.2-0.3s, so even if you shoot a little slower in BB (though not by very much) you save 10-20% of the stage time. I doubt that could be overcome even with going to 320, one shot / target is just too big of an advantage.
Gose, last year, aside from .308 shooters, every big bore shooter in my squad (5+) had to do at least one mag change on the 200 yd stage(hint: lots of lead down range for a long time). This nullified all the supposed time advantage you mentioned above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
You will have to chrono it and see if it does in your specific gun. I do want the AK's to be able to play so let me know what data you are getting with factory ammo in the AK and I will take this into consideration before I lock this in. 270pf should be doable with most factory fodder in 7.62x39 and 280pf with select factory ammo and easily by reloading your own.

Like I said, this is not locked in stone yet, but I am looking at making it so
Geoff, 280PF is more than enough for 7.62x39.
Here's the link to Wolf Ammo's Email reaponse:
Wolf 7.62x39 ballistics.

122gr FMJ & HP = 292 PF
Muzzle Velocity (fps) 2,444

154gr SP = 322 PF
Muzzle Velocity (fps) 2,116
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  #34  
Old 11-26-2011, 2:22 PM
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Gose, last year, aside from .308 shooters, every big bore shooter in my squad (5+) had to do at least one mag change on the 200 yd stage(hint: lots of lead down range for a long time). This nullified all the supposed time advantage you mentioned above.
I'm sure there were shooters in Open and Tactical that did mag changes on that stage as well so hows that any different from the BB guys doing a reload?

Daniel Horner shot a .300 BLK at the Nationals and he wont the long range stage (out to 365y) with 10%, so the fact that they screwed up one stage doesnt "nullify" the advantage, they just need to learn their holds.
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Old 11-26-2011, 2:45 PM
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I'm sure there were shooters in Open and Tactical that did mag changes on that stage as well so hows that any different from the BB guys doing a reload?

Daniel Horner shot a .300 BLK at the Nationals and he wont the long range stage (out to 365y) with 10%, so the fact that they screwed up one stage doesnt "nullify" the advantage, they just need to learn their holds.
Mag change on an AK means I have sent 30 rounds down range already, and only 10 hits were needed. I don't think any top ten finisher on that stage used more than 15-20 rds.

I think Geoff's intention for the big bore division is to allow non-AR platform users to have a reason to use their factory stock/non-competition-tuned rifles at BARC.

Thus I think all your points only apply to AR-platform users.
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  #36  
Old 11-26-2011, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
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Mag change on an AK means I have sent 30 rounds down range already, and only 10 hits were needed. I don't think any top ten finisher on that stage used more than 15-20 rds.
I think Geoff's intention for the big bore division is to allow non-AR platform users to have a reason to use their factory stock/non-competition-tuned rifles at BARC.
Thus I think all your points only apply to AR-platform users.
Of course they dont...

Compare an AK in TO to an AK in BB or an AR in TO to an AR in BB. An AK _or_ AR shooting in BB would have a big advantage compared to the same platform in TO.

You can't compare an AK in BB to an AR in TO and say that there's no advantage because the AK is really an inferior platform.

Anyway, it's Geoff's match and he's free to make up whatever rules and divisions he wants, so I'll be quiet now
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Old 12-01-2011, 9:29 AM
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Default 2012 BARC - Registration Now Open

OK, competitor registration for the 2012 BARC is now open.

Here is the registration form:

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 03-23-2013 at 4:35 PM..
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  #38  
Old 12-01-2011, 9:45 AM
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Registration sent!
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2011, 3:46 PM
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App is in the mail.
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2011, 4:51 PM
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John Bagakis won limited last time with irons right? Are you allowing one non-magnified optic in limited, or is it irons only?
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