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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-05-2007, 11:43 AM
Pulsar Pulsar is offline
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Default Finding Hi-caps

I know the law says, no importing, selling, or manufacturing hi-caps. But here's my situation

My dad who manages properties for my grandfather, including a mini-storage. Well he calls me this weekend to tell me that he just cleaned out a unit that a customer defaulted on, we can't even find the guy to get a hold of him, but my dad tells me he found ten 30 round AR mags and some handgun mags he can't identify. He asked me if I wanted them, I really do want them, but I don't know what the legal ramifications are. Since all these mags are owned by immediate family, I know I can take possessian of them.

Since technically, no one imported manufactured or sold them to us, it seems like we would be fine in keeping these mags and using them, but I may be missing something important in my legal knowledge.

I sure hope I get to keep em, it would be some serious incentive to finish building my OLL.
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulsar
I know the law says, no importing, selling, or manufacturing hi-caps. But here's my situation

My dad who manages properties for my grandfather, including a mini-storage. Well he calls me this weekend to tell me that he just cleaned out a unit that a customer defaulted on, we can't even find the guy to get a hold of him, but my dad tells me he found ten 30 round AR mags and some handgun mags he can't identify. He asked me if I wanted them, I really do want them, but I don't know what the legal ramifications are. Since all these mags are owned by immediate family, I know I can take possessian of them.

Since technically, no one imported manufactured or sold them to us, it seems like we would be fine in keeping these mags and using them, but I may be missing something important in my legal knowledge.

I sure hope I get to keep em, it would be some serious incentive to finish building my OLL.

Well, if you take the road that your dad found them then he can keep them. But on the otherhand, you are out of luck since your dad cannot give them to you!
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2007, 11:53 AM
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On the other hand If his father left them where they were and he came upon them it would be the same as him finding them. as whom ever finds them that has a need is all that matters. Since his father only let him know where the mags where and he went to the general location and stumbled upon them he found them also. Its not like his father boxed them up and said here do you want these.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Well, if you take the road that your dad found them then he can keep them. But on the otherhand, you are out of luck since your dad cannot give them to you!
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2007, 1:03 PM
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The law doesn't really mention finding, but I would be very very careful before taking possession of a mag I found and documenting it (pictures, witnesses, what ever is suitable) in every way possible.
Since your dad found those mags you're sol. There is no way he can give or transfer them to you legally.
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2007, 1:23 PM
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Or you could always take them apart and keep the parts as spares.
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Old 02-05-2007, 2:03 PM
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I think its hillarious that the dreaded mag ban includes the "finders keepers" loophole. If they ever prosecute somebody on this I would be interested to read the "did not", "did too" portion of the court transcript, as well as the "my lawyer can beat up your lawyer" taunts and the "we can tell you didnt possess the mag in 2000 because of the cooties that are on it" expert testimony.
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:19 PM
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Man, if I were you, I'd never post such question in a public forum.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulsar
Since all these mags are owned by immediate family, I know I can take possessian of them.
Actually, you can't. Since you didn't find them (and just admitted so) just forget about them.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:33 PM
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BTW...just how do they figure out if you had it in 1999?

C'mon.

"You just got that."
"No, I bought it in 1999 with my lunch money."
"..."
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluisious
BTW...just how do they figure out if you had it in 1999?

C'mon.

"You just got that."
"No, I bought it in 1999 with my lunch money."
"..."
exactly....innocent until PROVEN guilty. There is no way to prove magazine ownership since they are not serialized unless you own a highcap mag for a firearm that was invented post 2000 with its own special magazine. My advice to you would be to "find" these magazines yourself.
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluisious
BTW...just how do they figure out if you had it in 1999?

C'mon.

"You just got that."
"No, I bought it in 1999 with my lunch money."
"..."
Dont laugh, when I was in high school back in in the early 90's I would hoard my cash and score all kinds of standard caps at the old Pomona show.
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2007, 2:52 PM
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I remember that show from when it was at a place just off the I5. It was called the great western gun show. I was buying stuff there before I was old enough to buy the guns the parts went into. early 70's I got dropped off there by my old man and 3 or 4 sometimes 6 hours later he came and picked me up. I would go home with a duffle bag full of stuff and more money than I came with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach
Don't laugh, when I was in high school back in in the early 90's I would hoard my cash and score all kinds of standard caps at the old Pomona show.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2007, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsped
maybe we can do a hicap mag geocache ... lol
Geocaching.com is not a friend of the firearm community.

Good luck getting it listed
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2007, 3:35 PM
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Default mags and semisam

Have your dad take the mags apart. You then buy the parts to rebuild the mags you currently own. Just don't make new mags.

****

Semiautosam- 3-4 hours later??? Come on, don't expect us to believe that, especially if you are coming out with MORE money thatn you went in with. I would stay until I was broke :-)
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2007, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach
Dont laugh, when I was in high school back in in the early 90's I would hoard my cash and score all kinds of standard caps at the old Pomona show.
My friend Larry was like. When he was a kid, watching "Combat" and "Rat Patrol" got him into collecting WW2 stuff. When he was in the 5th grade he'd already had a collection of belts, bandolier, ammo pouch, bayonets, etc. By the time he was in the 7th grade, he'd already had a collection of ammo and a Arisaka rifle....and yes, this was California; SOUTHERN California
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  #16  
Old 02-05-2007, 3:53 PM
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Its the truth I bought mags and guns from those coming to the show to sell them as they walked in the door. For instance A guy would walk in the door with a flag sticking out of the barrel of his rifle and I approached him and asked him how much he wanted I found someone that wanted what he had and took the guys rifle to the guy that wanted it. upped the price and took the cash back to the guy waiting at the door, Putting the extra in my pocket.

I took the same technique and used it at the Reno show in the early 90's

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlillard23
Have your dad take the mags apart. You then buy the parts to rebuild the mags you currently own. Just don't make new mags.

****

Semiautosam- 3-4 hours later??? Come on, don't expect us to believe that, especially if you are coming out with MORE money thatn you went in with. I would stay until I was broke :-)
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  #17  
Old 02-05-2007, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl_Peters
exactly....innocent until PROVEN guilty. There is no way to prove magazine ownership since they are not serialized unless you own a highcap mag for a firearm that was invented post 2000 with its own special magazine. My advice to you would be to "find" these magazines yourself.
I seriously doubt that anyone that was of reasonable age and lived in CA in 2000 will ever run into any problems. People moving into CA after -00 or of very young age might run into problems though.
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2007, 4:37 PM
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i say your dad should throw those old, stinky mags away in the trash. you should go find some yourself
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  #19  
Old 02-05-2007, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRM6000
i say your dad should throw those old, stinky mags away in the trash. you should go find some yourself
Excellent!!!!
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  #20  
Old 02-05-2007, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mltrading
Man, if I were you, I'd never post such question in a public forum.
Thats big 2nd on that,if i remember right that was me who forgot them there when i moved out of the area and my storage so give me your address and i'll swing by someday and take them back into possession so you won't get into trouble and sorry for creating problems for you and your family and i'll be more careful not to leave my property unattened in the future.
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  #21  
Old 02-05-2007, 5:30 PM
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>>>>

Last edited by lonewolf; 12-03-2008 at 2:43 PM..
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2007, 6:17 PM
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I know everyone here LOVES to be super paranoid, but most of these laws are not to make a legal case out of Joe Gunowner. They're primarily for tacking on more years to criminals since "5 to 9" now means: 3 and 5 on probation. Robbery? That's X years, plus X years because you used a gun, plus X years for being in possession of an unregistered gun, plus X years because a threaded barrel turns this gun into an Assault Weapon, plus X years for being in possession of high capacity magazines... etc.

I don't really see someone getting taken in and send to prison on one of those "add on" charges...

EDIT: I'm referring to the police, not overzealous DOJ agents (who will make you miserable and charge you with nothing) or above-the-law ATF agents (who will probably just shoot you in the back of the head) ...

Last edited by Bishop; 02-05-2007 at 6:22 PM..
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2007, 6:49 PM
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Has anyone ever been prosecuted in Ca for having a hicap magazine?
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Old 02-05-2007, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RW Dunn
Thats big 2nd on that,if i remember right that was me who forgot them there when i moved out of the area and my storage so give me your address and i'll swing by someday and take them back into possession so you won't get into trouble and sorry for creating problems for you and your family and i'll be more careful not to leave my property unattened in the future.

LOL, well it is legally in my families possession because you didn't pay your fees to keep your mini-storage unit. Law is very clear on this, it's our stuff now We've had to go to court a few times on stuff like this and have never lost.


And I don't know why, but I always thought that hi-caps could be inherited, or am I supposed to destroy them all when my father dies? I can't really find any law pertaining to what needs to be done with a magazine when the owner dies. And if it stands that I can inherit then what's the point of waiting till my father dies? I know AW's can't be inherited, but I'm not as up to date on magazines.
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Old 02-05-2007, 6:52 PM
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Here's the law for you Pulsar.

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
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Old 02-05-2007, 7:41 PM
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Yeah that much I knew, but it still seems doesn't cover inheritance.

Also to consider, I still use my parents address as my permanent address, I spend almost half the year still living with them, don't know if that would have any bearing.
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Old 02-05-2007, 8:01 PM
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Good thing it says nothing about finding or Buying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkA4alb
Here's the law for you Pulsar.

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2007, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkA4alb
Here's the law for you Pulsar.

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
He's got a point... If buying and finding is (kinda) legal because they're not mentioned, then inheriting should be ok as well.

Last edited by gose; 02-05-2007 at 8:42 PM..
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2007, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gose
He's got a point... If buying and finding is (kinda) legal because they're not mentioned, then inheriting should be ok as well.
I'm not sure if you guys are assuming I'm saying that you can't find them or something. But thats not my intent at all.

Finding and buying them is legal and I have held that opinion for awhile. I never said anything for or against inheriting, I just quoted him the law to let him come to his own decision .
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Old 02-05-2007, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
...I'm referring to the police, not overzealous DOJ agents... (who will probably just shoot you in the back of the head) ...
But only if you're hiding under a desk!
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Old 02-06-2007, 12:06 AM
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Don't be too caviler about assuming that inherit does not also mean "give" which is banned in the law.

There have been "import large-capacity magazine" arrests where DOJ Firearms trailed folks from the Reno gun show back to California. I plan on learning more about that soon.

-Gene
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Old 02-06-2007, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Block
Has anyone ever been prosecuted in Ca for having a hicap magazine?
No, because possession of standard capacity (+10 rounds)mags is not a crime.

Now if you mean has anyone ever been prosecuted in CA for importing standard capacity mags, then the answer would be yes.
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Old 02-06-2007, 3:06 PM
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It's pretty simple... inheritance is just "finding" it in their effects, right?
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Old 02-06-2007, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang
Don't be too caviler about assuming that inherit does not also mean "give" which is banned in the law.

There have been "import large-capacity magazine" arrests where DOJ Firearms trailed folks from the Reno gun show back to California. I plan on learning more about that soon.

-Gene

Inherit means give? They can arrest the one that gave it then, not the one that received them.
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Old 02-06-2007, 3:14 PM
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Sure to inherit is to give posthumously .

But what does this matter if the gift is posthumous that would mean the person doing the giving is beyond the long arm of the law so to speak.
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Old 02-06-2007, 3:24 PM
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That is a valid point... Dead men do not do time... Witness Ken Lay.

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Old 02-06-2007, 4:18 PM
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Ok can we have some proof of "arrest and charges" instead of just saying it happened. We have a few cases of OLL being charged but I have seen nothing of the high cap mag garbage.
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Old 02-06-2007, 4:45 PM
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I have some mags that have been rebuilt many times. They were originally 20-rd M-16 mags I traded away from a Korean soldier while on a Team Spirit in 1986. The floorplates are really cool since the markings are in Hangul (Korean). Because the mags are 20-plus years old, I recently refurbished them. They are now 30's that have post-2000 dates stamped right on the tubes. The only part original on these mags are the floorlates. Springs wear out, mag tubes get bent, followers wear out. Floorplates rarely go bad, but they do.

Here's the kicker: When my old floorplates wear out, get bent, no longer work, and I replace them, now no original part exists from the original mags. The way I read the law, that should be totally legal.

In essence, if you were alive prior to 2000 you can have the mags. Then you can replace parts all you want, forever.
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Old 02-06-2007, 5:33 PM
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Even DOJ agrees that that is legal:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ...2005-11-10.pdf

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Old 02-06-2007, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold
Inherit means give? They can arrest the one that gave it then, not the one that received them.
Heheh, I like this angle. They possibly could confiscate the mag as contraband at best.
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