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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:16 AM
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Exclamation Bullpup Unlimited - 870







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  #2  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:28 AM
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I like it
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:46 AM
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as close to a KSG as you're gonna get!
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  #4  
Old 09-28-2011, 6:06 AM
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If that thing was made in the USA, they spent a shocking amount of money on tooling they are very unlikely to recover.

But good luck to them.
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  #5  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:26 AM
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I dont think they need tooling, lol.

Just some plastic molds, is that whole thing made of that crap?
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  #6  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:36 AM
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That looks like a lot of fun! If I had an 870 already that seems like a fun range toy. Since I do not have an 870, I'll save my cash and get myself a KSG (If I can ever find one on the market that is willing to ship to California).
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  #7  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:36 AM
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So that thing is legal here in Cali right? Everything I checked for a shotgun tell me it is:

it's my understanding this is what is legal:

Shotguns in CA:

A. Must have a 18" or longer barrel
B. Must be at least 26" in overall length
C. Can have a folding/collapsible stock OR a pistol grip, but not both
D. CANNOT have: a detachable magazine, a revolving cylinder, or be a Franchi SPAS 12, LAW 12, Striker 12, or Streetsweeper

That kit appears to meet the following guidelines as it will provide you with a 28 OAL

I don't know, so Im waiting for someone smarter than me to explain why its not legal here.

Thanks link.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:41 AM
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wow look at all that ugly plastic.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:51 AM
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well damn that looks real good. this plus an 870 puts you right around a ksg price range though right? that's moot for all current 870 owners like myself though. i'm gonna be getting one of these.
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2011, 8:14 AM
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One of you guys get one. Post a review after 10,000 rounds. Then based on that if the review is completely positive I may look at one.

Bull Pup designs come and go. If this was of any value the Old Remington Company would have done it. They did not. If the New Freedom Group does it now I would still want a positive review after 10,000 rounds before I would even look at one. Who knows, it could be a keeper.
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2011, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
One of you guys get one. Post a review after 10,000 rounds. Then based on that if the review is completely positive I may look at one.

Bull Pup designs come and go. If this was of any value the Old Remington Company would have done it. They did not. If the New Freedom Group does it now I would still want a positive review after 10,000 rounds before I would even look at one. Who knows, it could be a keeper.
JD, they should send you one and you can test it out. I can't think of anyone better suited to test out parts for an 870.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:58 AM
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That would work. If it does not get sent back they would know they have a winner.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkpimp View Post
So that thing is legal here in Cali right? Everything I checked for a shotgun tell me it is:

it's my understanding this is what is legal:

Shotguns in CA:

A. Must have a 18" or longer barrel
B. Must be at least 26" in overall length
C. Can have a folding/collapsible stock OR a pistol grip, but not both
D. CANNOT have: a detachable magazine, a revolving cylinder, or be a
Franchi SPAS 12, LAW 12, Striker 12, or Streetsweeper

That kit appears to meet the following guidelines as it will provide you with a 28 OAL

I don't know, so Im waiting for someone smarter than me to explain why its not legal here.

Thanks link.
A and B are relevant for all shotguns, but the bolded parts are relevant only for semi-auto shotguns. With a pump gun you can have folding/collapsing stock AND a pistol grip AND detachable magazines - fun!
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2011, 2:04 PM
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The problem with plastic is breakage especially if there are nuts and bolts tightening against it to hold it together. Plastic wears and fatigues with moving parts and it can break. Maybe for airsoft it's ok but give me metal any day.
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2011, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkpimp View Post
So that thing is legal here in Cali right? Everything I checked for a shotgun tell me it is:

it's my understanding this is what is legal:

Shotguns in CA:

A. Must have a 18" or longer barrel
B. Must be at least 26" in overall length
C. Can have a folding/collapsible stock OR a pistol grip, but not both
D. CANNOT have: a detachable magazine, a revolving cylinder, or be a Franchi SPAS 12, LAW 12, Striker 12, or Streetsweeper

That kit appears to meet the following guidelines as it will provide you with a 28 OAL

I don't know, so Im waiting for someone smarter than me to explain why its not legal here.

Thanks link.
Thats for semi autos. Cept that you cannot have any of C Fixed stocks with pistol grips are ok though
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2011, 2:28 PM
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$279
•Designed to accept a wide variety of aftermarket AR-style accessories
•Familiar AR-style grip and safetySplit-trigger for increased safety
•Variety of rail mounting areas for tactical accessories
•Super-smooth and contoured slide release area
•Rugged shell deflector for left handed shooters
•Ergonomically shaped and easy-to-grip slide forearm
•Generous access to loading port
•Conversion assembles easily with tools provided
•Easy to follow conversion instructions included
•Multiple ambidextrous sling points for 1-point and 2-point sling
•Field strips with tools included under butt pad
•Manufactured from rugged, hi-tech, molded materials
•Features an easy-to-grip, non-reflective surface texture
•Does not in any way alter the original shotgun
•Overall thickness: 2.75”, width: 8”, length: 28”
•Shipping weight: 2 lbs 12 oz, package dimensions: 4”x12” x33”
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2011, 2:44 PM
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Why does everyone put the term Hi-tech in whenever discribing "plastic" or even more advanced polymers ?
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2011, 3:08 PM
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Someone get one and post a review like aippi said after 10k rounds haha
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2011, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21SF View Post
Why does everyone put the term Hi-tech in whenever discribing "plastic" or even more advanced polymers ?
because its more tasteful than tactical
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  #20  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
One of you guys get one. Post a review after 10,000 rounds. Then based on that if the review is completely positive I may look at one.

Bull Pup designs come and go. If this was of any value the Old Remington Company would have done it. They did not. If the New Freedom Group does it now I would still want a positive review after 10,000 rounds before I would even look at one. Who knows, it could be a keeper.

How many people out there have put > 10k round through an 870 in the standard configuration?
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  #21  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:38 PM
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^ I have.....
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2011, 4:45 PM
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$280 (bullpup kit) + $80< (flip up sights) $300 (basic 870) + $30 (tax on 870) + $35 (DROS) = $725<

i'd rather wait for the Kel-Tec KSG
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2011, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
How many people out there have put > 10k round through an 870 in the standard configuration?
Me... although that total is spread across several guns and across a few decades. Not unusual for a hardcore trap shooter to go through that many shells (or more) in a year and 870's still make for excellent trap guns.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2011, 5:29 PM
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the guy doesn't look as comfortable using the bullpup.





does the wood butt stock and fore grip on an 870 really weigh 1.9lbs?

basic wood 870 = 7lbs (112oz) - 1.9lbs (30.39oz) wood stock and grip = 5.1lbs (81.61oz)
bullpup universal kit = 2lbs 12oz (44oz)

R870 w/o wood stock and grip = 5.1lbs (81.61oz) + 2lbs 12oz (44oz) = 125.61oz/16oz = 7.85lbs

nutnfancy says weight matters (: ahaha
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  #25  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:13 PM
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who has put 10,000 through an 870??????? I have put that and much more and mostly courtesy of the of the people of the state of Florida. Admittedly once retired and having to pay for ammo ones trigger time goes down. Also, there are competition shooters and clay shooters out there that put my round count to shame and many old timers in the six figures with the same weapon.

Every time something cool looking hits these blogs it becomes the latest greatest thing. Gun safes are full of the latest greatest things. I say let others be the crash dummies and when they get enough rounds through one of these and it is still duty ready I will check one out. I don't shoot shotguns for recreation and I will not have one that is not 100% dependable when my a double s is on the line. So the only use I would have for this would be defense and I don't want no gimmicks and tacti-fool mess. Not saying this model is, I am just saying time and round count will tell and it will be here years from now or die a lonely death like all the other bull pup shotguns before it.
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2011, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
One of you guys get one. Post a review after 10,000 rounds. Then based on that if the review is completely positive I may look at one.

Bull Pup designs come and go. If this was of any value the Old Remington Company would have done it. They did not. If the New Freedom Group does it now I would still want a positive review after 10,000 rounds before I would even look at one. Who knows, it could be a keeper.
I hate this idea so much. Can't you see the unbelievable folly in this thinking? Previous generations provide us with experience, but they're not all-knowing and all-wise. Maybe they didn't do it because they just didn't think of it. Or maybe they tried, but ran into a problem that they couldn't solve, and the solution to that problem has since been found. Or maybe the project head slept with the boss's wife and he torpedoed the project in retaliation. Or maybe they tried to do it one way, and it didn't work, but there's a different way that hasn't been tried yet.

The next time I hear someone on Calguns say, "If it was a good idea it would have already been done," I will print out the post, take it to the range, and shoot it with a bullpup shotgun. 10,000 times.
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Old 09-28-2011, 8:19 PM
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Your lack of knowledge about the past folly of bull pup shotguns causes you to not get the point there claymore. There have been mulitiple bull pup designs over the years but Remington never did one. Now why is that? Can it be because there is little to no point? Can it be that they don't sell? Can it be that since all the other that failed and there was no market that they knew better then to waste thier time?

So no one said "If it was a good idea it would have already been done" meaning in general because it has been done many times and every one of them failed. It takes no imagination to convert and 870 to this design and it has been done by after market people before. Remington sees no point in it and has no plans to offer such a model. I was addressing the Remington 870 this post is about not the idea of a freaking bull pup shotgun.

So, you misundestand and think this is some great new concept????? Been done, was not wanted and did not work for crap. None found a home in market back then nor will they today.

Let's have some fun. Let's post all the failed Bull pup Models. I will start with this:

High Standard 12 ga Bull Pup with built weapons light.

Now you guys post in all the failed ones you guys know about. Oh, and some worked fine but could not find a place in the market which was also the point I made above.
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  #28  
Old 09-28-2011, 8:31 PM
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i must admit i want one
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  #29  
Old 09-28-2011, 9:12 PM
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But by adding just one more question to your list, you both ask the same thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
Your lack of knowledge about the past folly of bull pup shotguns causes you to not get the point there claymore. There have been mulitiple bull pup designs over the years but Remington never did one. Now why is that? Can it be because there is little to no point? Can it be that they don't sell? Can it be that since all the other that failed and there was no market that they knew better then to waste thier time?
Can it be that something has changed since then?
Some fun quotes of other naysayers:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." - Western Union internal memo, 1876

"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out." - Decca Recording Company, 1962 (rejecting some group called the Beatles)

I have no dog in this fight. I would be interested in one, except my other 870 shooter (wife) shoots lefty. Would she want shells zipping across her nose? That's a review I'd like to read.
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Old 09-28-2011, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaded Claymore View Post
I hate this idea so much. Can't you see the unbelievable folly in this thinking? Previous generations provide us with experience, but they're not all-knowing and all-wise. Maybe they didn't do it because they just didn't think of it. Or maybe they tried, but ran into a problem that they couldn't solve, and the solution to that problem has since been found. Or maybe the project head slept with the boss's wife and he torpedoed the project in retaliation. Or maybe they tried to do it one way, and it didn't work, but there's a different way that hasn't been tried yet.

The next time I hear someone on Calguns say, "If it was a good idea it would have already been done," I will print out the post, take it to the range, and shoot it with a bullpup shotgun. 10,000 times.
I get your point in some ways. And we can add the Mossberg Bull Pup to the "tried it, didn't catch on" list....



A high energy weapon, like a fighting shotgun, in a bull pup configuration is not necessarily the most pleasant thing in the world to shoot. They reduce length, but add a lot of bulk in other dimensions to not a lot of great, and you don't gain capacity. Weight is less, but weight helps absorb recoil.... shooting a bull pup with high velocity defensive ammo isn't fun, I've tried a Mossberg BP more than once and I know. Your face is right over the chamber and as secret.asian.man's photo shows, when shouldered it looks awkward. The shooter looks to be holding his head back on the stock rather than getting forward on it as he should. And not without reason, I'd say.

To be honest, and if I am an LEA firearms coordinator trying to figure out what will work best for the people I am responsible to arm, and a compact shotgun is determined the way to go I'd go to something like a Wilson Professional Model (below) before I'd go to a bull pup. Same goes if I was an individual LEO or non-LEO citizen in a state where I could personally transfer an SBS.

It's true, though, in California that a bull pup is, arguably, about as compact as you'll get a shotgun and still be legal. And they do look kind of cool. But my own opinion, FWIW, is that it's a gimmicky compromise that I am not willing to make.

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  #31  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:01 PM
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Apparently there was a bullpup shoot recently and initial impressions are that the BP Unlimited 870 fared better than the KSG:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/35...rt.html&page=1
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
Me... although that total is spread across several guns and across a few decades. Not unusual for a hardcore trap shooter to go through that many shells (or more) in a year and 870's still make for excellent trap guns.
Spreading the total across multiple 870s sort of misses the point of the exercise though...

Anyway, I would guess that the segment of the shooting populace that has or will shoot 10k shotgun rounds in a significant period of time is pretty tiny, and the segment that will put that many through a single weapon even tinier. I don't think that this conversion is aimed at either of those groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
*shakes cane, waves fist*
Regardless, no one is trying to force the entire 870-owning populace to convert their guns to this configuration, or even imply that it is better in all situations. It's just one option to change things up for those that wish to experiment. I personally think that it's probably not optimal (I wouldn't bother with it), but I'm sure some people will find this type of conversion useful or advantageous. Different strokes.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
Let's have some fun. Let's post all the failed Bull pup Models. I will start with this:

High Standard 12 ga Bull Pup with built weapons light.

Now you guys post in all the failed ones you guys know about. Oh, and some worked fine but could not find a place in the market which was also the point I made above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
A high energy weapon, like a fighting shotgun, in a bull pup configuration is not necessarily the most pleasant thing in the world to shoot. They reduce length, but add a lot of bulk in other dimensions to not a lot of great, and you don't gain capacity. Weight is less, but weight helps absorb recoil.... shooting a bull pup with high velocity defensive ammo isn't fun, I've tried a Mossberg BP more than once and I know. Your face is right over the chamber and as secret.asian.man's photo shows, when shouldered it looks awkward. The shooter looks to be holding his head back on the stock rather than getting forward on it as he should. And not without reason, I'd say.
Hmmm...well I suppose you've got me there.

Last edited by Dreaded Claymore; 09-29-2011 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 09-29-2011, 1:48 AM
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Haven't seen that much plastic since I held a keltec...

The creaters get a huge thumbs up for design though. As a guy just starting out making custom gun parts, it takes balls, a big wallet, and a wicked team behind you to get something like this done. If they'd done it in metal, you'd hear all the limp wristers on here complaining about weight.

+1 on the comment about the guy looking more comfortable with his 870 in stock config. Probably looks uncomfortable with the BP config because of those super cool hiviz sights two inches above the gun!
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Old 09-29-2011, 4:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21SF View Post
I dont think they need tooling, lol.

Just some plastic molds, is that whole thing made of that crap?
It's not plastic, its "tactical polymer"

But really, how does it shoot?
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Old 09-29-2011, 6:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21SF View Post
I dont think they need tooling, lol.

Just some plastic molds, is that whole thing made of that crap?
That's tooling. Over $200,000 of tooling in that thing, if it's US-made.
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Old 09-29-2011, 7:33 AM
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Nope, couldn't do it. That thing is freakin ugly. I'm guessing reloading and other things such as take-down and cleaning are going to be an issue too, especially since I like to clean my stuff almost each time I use it. Just give me a good ol 870p and I'm good.
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Old 09-29-2011, 8:16 AM
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Sent them an email so we'll see where this thing is made. My money is on PRC, but praying for USA.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starsnuffer
It's an HK, I could lube it with sand and superglue and it'd work just fine.

Last edited by TheExpertish; 09-30-2011 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 09-29-2011, 8:25 AM
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I see why they would base it on an 870 due to popularity... but Ive always thought the best platform for a bullpup conversion is an Ithaca 37. Since its bottom ejecting and loading, theres no problem with using it left or right handed. And it means you can add a metal cover over the whole receiver to address any issues with a receiver kaboom right under your face.

Wonder if this could be adapted....
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Old 09-29-2011, 9:08 AM
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Not too bad looking except for all the "plastic". I would like to shoot one to see how the recoil is.
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