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  #1  
Old 09-25-2011, 10:29 PM
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Default Theory-crafting the shotgun AW PC

Just like the title says, theory-crafting, none of those mentioned below has actually be done on an actual firearm. Just a friendly reminder that the shotgun AW PC and the rifle AW PC are two seperate things and before posting you should refresh yourself with it so no one has egg on there face.

Featureless saiga 12 (with mag lock)
With a fin grip not meeting the legal definition of a pistol grip, legally is it possible to put a side folding stock on your converted saiga 12? As long as your saiga 12 meets all the other requirements not to be considered an AW. I'm thinking it is, but I'm pretty sure there is something out there that I have not taken into consideration so feel free to see if this theory will hold water .
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:51 PM
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That sounds correct. IIRC the law says that a semi-auto shotgun can have either a pistol grip or a folding or collapsible stock. If you take one away, I believe having the other would not be breaking any laws. I'm not a lawyer, and you should definitely check the flowchart and some more knowledgeable members before actually doing anything.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turo View Post
That sounds correct. IIRC the law says that a semi-auto shotgun can have either a pistol grip or a folding or collapsible stock. If you take one away, I believe having the other would not be breaking any laws. I'm not a lawyer, and you should definitely check the flowchart and some more knowledgeable members before actually doing anything.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

From PC 12276.1

AFAIK that is the only CA PC on AW shotguns. so Im pretty sure it would be okay, because it is no longer a PG (if the fin truly makes it fall out of PG definition), the only problem I see is if you wanted a VFG on your gun. The folding stock would make VFG illegal.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repubconserv View Post
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

From PC 12276.1

AFAIK that is the only CA PC on AW shotguns. so Im pretty sure it would be okay, because it is no longer a PG (if the fin truly makes it fall out of PG definition), the only problem I see is if you wanted a VFG on your gun. The folding stock would make VFG illegal.
That's the PC I was thinking of, thanks!
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2011, 1:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repubconserv View Post
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

From PC 12276.1

AFAIK that is the only CA PC on AW shotguns. so Im pretty sure it would be okay, because it is no longer a PG (if the fin truly makes it fall out of PG definition), the only problem I see is if you wanted a VFG on your gun. The folding stock would make VFG illegal.
the VFG might be a deal breaker, normally I hate having them on my rifle, but love them on shotguns.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:05 AM
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Semiautomatic = auto loading...

PG and Folding Stock = AW.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
Semiautomatic = auto loading...

PG and Folding Stock = AW.
we get that. The OP is trying to figure out a way to have a folding stock wiith having a PG. Folding stock without PG =/= AW.
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Old 09-26-2011, 1:13 PM
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we get that. The OP is trying to figure out a way to have a folding stock wiith having a PG. Folding stock without PG =/= AW.
thank you
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Old 09-26-2011, 1:41 PM
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Removable PG with a folding stock lock out that requires a tool to lock/unlock.
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2011, 2:15 PM
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Just brainstorming....

What about a "removable stock" instead of collapsible/folding?

Maybe modify the hinge on a folding stock so it comes off when released instead of folding. Turn the closed hinge into just a hook. The shotgun would just need to be 26" OAL with the stock removed.

Here is another one, what about a "sliding stock"??? So imagine there is a rail that runs down the side of the gun opposite the charging handle. You press a release button, and push the stock to the left so it lines up with the rail. Then you press forward and the stock slides down the rail to its stored position. When you want to extend the stock, you slide it back down the rail toward the rear of the gun, then slide it back over into position behind the receiver, where it locks into place.

At no point does it fold or collapse. This one would take a bit of engineering though.
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Last edited by stix213; 09-26-2011 at 2:22 PM..
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Old 09-26-2011, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Just brainstorming....

What about a "removable stock" instead of collapsible/folding?

Maybe modify the hinge on a folding stock so it comes off when released instead of folding. Turn the closed hinge into just a hook. The shotgun would just need to be 26" OAL with the stock removed.

Here is another one, what about a "sliding stock"??? So imagine there is a rail that runs down the side of the gun opposite the charging handle. You press a release button, and push the stock to the left so it lines up with the rail. Then you press forward and the stock slides down the rail to its stored position. When you want to extend the stock, you slide it back down the rail toward the rear of the gun, then slide it back over into position behind the receiver, where it locks into place.

At no point does it fold or collapse. This one would take a bit of engineering though.
To me, it sliding into a smaller form is the definition of collapsing....
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Old 09-26-2011, 3:51 PM
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To me, it sliding into a smaller form is the definition of collapsing....
The stock wouldn't be "into a smaller form" though. It would just be changing location.
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Old 09-26-2011, 4:08 PM
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yes there are assault rifles ,assault pistols and assault shotguns

oddly there doesn't seem to be any assault "others" aka things that look like rifles or shotguns that are not intended to be fired from the shoulder
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Old 09-27-2011, 1:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Just brainstorming....

What about a "removable stock" instead of collapsible/folding?

Maybe modify the hinge on a folding stock so it comes off when released instead of folding. Turn the closed hinge into just a hook. The shotgun would just need to be 26" OAL with the stock removed.

Here is another one, what about a "sliding stock"??? So imagine there is a rail that runs down the side of the gun opposite the charging handle. You press a release button, and push the stock to the left so it lines up with the rail. Then you press forward and the stock slides down the rail to its stored position. When you want to extend the stock, you slide it back down the rail toward the rear of the gun, then slide it back over into position behind the receiver, where it locks into place.

At no point does it fold or collapse. This one would take a bit of engineering though.
that stock Idea is a no go, and a very complicated option imo. A kydex grip wrap would not make the PG legally a PG anymore, plus I can use already exsisting saiga folding stocks.
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2011, 7:42 AM
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Have a pg that when it is removed now unlocks the butt stock in order to fold it out of the way.
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2011, 2:09 PM
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Have a pg that when it is removed now unlocks the butt stock in order to fold it out of the way.
sounds good until I lose the PG, knowing me that wont take long.
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Old 09-27-2011, 5:06 PM
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well even w/o the pg, you would be CA legal!
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