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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-17-2011, 2:22 PM
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Default Opening day in C zone and I was violated.

I literality had NO time to scout for deer season this year so when my brother called and ask if we were going hunting, I said “we can go do a little scouting I don’t know where to go hunting”. I have had no time to check out the acorns or any other conditions.

So that’s what we did we went scouting. I told my brother that I saw an old road that I wanted to check out. The road has a forest service sign that has been there for at least 50 years, on the sign it says Bagly jeep trail 28 miles among other destinations, but 12 miles down the road we came to a locked gate and our day was over before it began. When one see a Forest Service sign that list a destination 28 miles away you trust that you can get there. This is like seeing a state highway sign that says Reno 200 miles only to find a gate 100 miles down the road.

On the way out a F&G truck came screaming around a corner at a high rate of speed just about running us off the dirt road. He slid to a stop rolled his window down and asks how we were. Fine I said. My brother had his rifle on the seat and officer DeWayne Little ask if he would slide the bolt back enough to see if it was loaded. He did and everything was fine. Officer Little then ask if I had a gun? In the back I said. In a case he ask, Yes I answered. “What are you guys doing today” he ask “just scouting” I said. We made some small talk I voiced my disappointment that the whole world was being locked up. Instead of being sympathetic he just said it’s SP land they can do what they want. Everything was in order, BUT he had to push things and go on a fishing expedition. Have you been hunting he ask, no just scouting we’re locked out of where we hoping to go hunting I said.

He gets real pissed off and said stay right there as he pulled forward far enough to get his door open. He jumped out and said can I see your hunting license? I told him we weren’t hunting and ask if I had to show my license. You are in the field on opening day with a method of take, let me see your license!!! I handed him my license but said I believe your violating my civil rights I have the right to bear arms, I have NOT been hunting. Everything was in order then he pulled my rifle out of its case from the back of my truck. I again told him he was violating my civil rights. “I’m just doing my job” he said. I told him NO you’re going way beyond doing your job. You have seen that everything is in order but still you insist on going fishing. You are WAY over zealous, why can’t you leave honest sportsmen be once you’ve seen things are in order.

Again he said he was just doing his job, and then ask my brother for his license and tags. I wasn’t hunting my brother said. Little ask “You didn’t get out and walk around at all?” My brother said what if I did I have the right to bear arms. “GET OUT OF THE TRUCK” Little shouts. My brother gets out, Little takes his gun tells me to stay back, and again asks my brother for his license. My brother said I’ll show it to you if you can tell me it’s not a violation of my civil rights. Little drops the license and tags questions and takes a camera out and starts taking pictures of my brother’s rifle and a close up of the serial number. I flat out told him he didn’t have the right to do that. WHAT’S your name Little ask my brother, my brother said Russ. I may be in touch with you little said as he tries to hand me my brother’s gun. That’s not my gun I said and pointed to my brother. As little handed my brother back his gun my brother ask why would you get in touch with me? Little said I may or may not be filing a complaint depending on where my investigation takes me. ???

We told him we weren’t hunting and he asks if there was any game at our feet? Insulting!

He said; don't tell me you wouldn't shoot a buck if he jumped out in the road? Shooting from or across ANY public road is a violation. This makes ANY road hunting illegal.

Long after we complied with the e-check and made friendly small talk he started with the insulting questions. When we said we didn’t want to go fishing with him he got pissed ordered us out of the truck and started with the intimidation.
We never got to our destination, so we NEVER hunted, road hunting is illegal so we were NOT hunting. If we were not hunting why were we forced to show our licenses and tags? I understand an e-check (or terry stop) has to end when it is determined that a gun is not loaded. What gave officer Little the right to photograph the gun and take the serial number?

I should say that Dewayne Little is well known for being WAY over zealous when it comes to enforcing the law. I have heard that at least one county won’t prosecute any case that he’s involved with.
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Last edited by VaderSpade; 09-18-2011 at 4:09 AM.. Reason: Clarity
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:30 PM
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F&G are out of control. They have tunnel vision. They think that the only reason people can carry guns is for hunting, and that is their domain. They don't understand (with a few exceptions of good wardens) that more folks out there carry for other reasons than hunting, and that it is our right under the Constitution and now affirmed by the Supreme Court. IMO F&G needs a good slap-down in the courts or publicly by a group like CGF to get them in line.
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:33 PM
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Vader, he had the right to "e" check as you told him you had firearms.

If you were hunting, rounds in the mag were OK. If you were not hunting, rounds in the mag were not OK depending on the road/restrictions. Is this why he took pics?

Regardless of perceived attitude, I don't see anything wrong with the stop.

Last edited by taperxz; 09-17-2011 at 2:43 PM..
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:38 PM
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Where was u at vader
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:40 PM
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Let's see, your in a hunting zone on opening day, with a rifle and DFG asks to see your hunting license. You get all upset and start complaining about how he's violating your civil rights rather than show him your hunting license and end the issue.

While I'm not current on hunting regs since I retired, I believe he was correct in asking for your license. If you were just scouting as claimed, why have a rifle (aka: method of take)

I don't get why you are upset. By giving him guff when he asked for your license, you set the tone for the rest of the contact.
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
If you were hunting, rounds in the mag were OK. If you were not hunting, rounds in the mag were not OK depending on the road/restrictions. Is this why he took pics?
Rounds in the mag are fine as long as the mag is not in the gun.
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:49 PM
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Rounds in the mag are fine as long as the mag is not in the gun.
Agreed, i am picturing a bolt type hunting rifle
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:50 PM
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I thought this was a Deliverance-type thread. Booring.
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:53 PM
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Taperxz I was fine with the e check, full cooperation. I believe he took the pics for the intimidation factor. The close up of the serial # is a clear violation of an e-check

Ron-solo the “Guff” didn’t start until he just wouldn’t give up with his fishing expedition.
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
Taperxz I was fine with the e check, full cooperation. I believe he took the pics for the intimidation factor. The close up of the serial # is a clear violation of an e-check

Ron-solo the “Guff” didn’t start until he just wouldn’t give up with his fishing expedition.

Well, if the photo is a violation, which I think it might be, that will work in your favor if something goes haywire.

Man, after last year and this year, you sure attract a lot of attention while hunting!
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:57 PM
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If you were just scouting as claimed, why have a rifle (aka: method of take)

First it's my right, second we were looking for a place to hunt but were shut out. Does anyone read these threads before they comment??
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Old 09-17-2011, 2:59 PM
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Vader the other thing is that there is nothing he can find from the serial on a long gun unless you voluntary reg on it. I know you didn't do that.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:01 PM
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I believe he was correct in asking for your license.

ONLY if you admit to hunting, you have the right to be in the woods with a gun during season. The courts have ruled on this.
Once you admit to hunting they can take apart your truck and I could see that was where this was heading, as Little ask if we had any game under our feet.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
If you were just scouting as claimed, why have a rifle (aka: method of take)

First it's my right, second we were looking for a place to hunt but were shut out. Does anyone read these threads before they comment??
Ehhh not flaming you here but you said you were scouting! Scouting is in search of. Scouting DURING the season with license and tags in an area that is not prohibited to hunting is hunting/scouting. In any case you had admitted to him you were on your way to hunt but..... Was locked out from the area you wanted to hunt.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:04 PM
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Vader the other thing is that there is nothing he can find from the serial on a long gun unless you voluntary reg on it. I know you didn't do that.
This was my brothers gun, my grandfather bought it new in 1951. No records.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:06 PM
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Ehhh not flaming you here but you said you were scouting! Scouting is in search of. Scouting DURING the season with license and tags in an area that is not prohibited to hunting is hunting/scouting. In any case you had admitted to him you were on your way to hunt but..... Was locked out from the area you wanted to hunt.
Bottom line NO hunting took place.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:07 PM
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I don't think you have anything to worry about then. You know, some wardens can be richards.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:09 PM
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This one has a rep.

Well enough chat I’m off for an evening hunt.

Alert the warden!
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
Taperxz I was fine with the e check, full cooperation. I believe he took the pics for the intimidation factor. The close up of the serial # is a clear violation of an e-check

Ron-solo the “Guff” didn’t start until he just wouldn’t give up with his fishing expedition.
While the photo may exceed the scope of an echeck, it may very well be within the scope of other F&G code violations, especially since there was refusal to show a hunting license, in a hunting zone, on opening day, and by your post, if you could have gotten to the area you wanted you would have been hunting.

If he's a DFG officer, I'll bet he as a fishing license.

Let's see.....you didn't get a chance to scout.....you go out but can't get to the area you want.....you get stopped by the DFG....all things that add to the frustration of the day, understandably. But why get all butt hurt when he asked for your license when it is reasonable to assume you were hunting?

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi, but your original post was a little disjointed.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
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Bottom line NO hunting took place.
But, you told him you were on your way and now from. How does he know if you were road hunting or not? Were you in an area that was legal to hunt in?

Opening day, method of take, ADMITTED going to or from hunting, produced license and tags....In a hunting area? No arrests, no citations, YES Richard!

.????? You know the drill
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:16 PM
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This one has a rep.

Well enough chat I’m off for an evening hunt.

Alert the warden!

OK but if he is on this forum, remember you just told him YOU ARE HUNTING THIS EVENING!!!! LOL
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post

While I'm not current on hunting regs since I retired, I believe he was correct in asking for your license. If you were just scouting as claimed, why have a rifle (aka: method of take)
And that, right there, is where you fail.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:27 PM
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OK, scouting on opening day (your admission)... Rifles in the truck, and in the ready (not loaded) what is he suppose to think?

Like another post's mentioned, road hunting? I'm not saying you were. the Warden was doing what he felt was within the law.

Sorry, but too many things just don't come together for you.

When most people scout, they have bino's not rifles. When most people hunt they have rifles and bino's...

If you use the scope on your rifle to scout for game that using your rifle to hunt....
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:49 PM
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Jeez you were assaulted by a landowner last season. Seems like you have mutiple stories of being jacked up by CHP, DFG, Forestry etc. Is this the same brother who was harrased by forest rangers a couple weeks ago? Ive been hunting for 34 years and never had a problem.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:53 PM
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Scouting = no guns
Poaching = guns and no license
Hunting = guns and license

Pick the top or the bottom, but not the middle, for a drama-free experience.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:58 PM
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Bottom line NO hunting took place.
According to you. What would have happened if a big buck ran out in front of you and froze up broadside. I bet that gun would have got loaded up in 2 seconds and somebody would have popped him.
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Old 09-17-2011, 3:59 PM
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The only way to educate people like that is with law suits. Sue him and his supervisor.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
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Scouting = no guns
Poaching = guns and no license
Hunting = guns and license

Pick the top or the bottom, but not the middle, for a drama-free experience.
Ill go scouting with a sidearm but scouting with a deer rifle on opening day of deer season? Thats called deer hunting.

I guess I could go exercise my 2a rights on opening of pheasant season by wearing a bird vest and taking my lab for a walk in the rice while carrying my benelli.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:08 PM
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Read the original post a 3rd time...uh yes a unlocked firearm in the front seat is permission to go fishing. Next time have the guns in cases in the back...sorry to tell ya.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:10 PM
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Funny how everyone in this thread is A-OK with Wardens having the legal right to violate your rights. While they currently do have the right under CA law, it's not Constitutional. I always find it odd how people on the right claim to be for the 2A but are happy to have to get licenses and knucke to police inspections and searches. Everyone is just way too used to and comfortable with the over-reaching powers F&G Wardens have accrued over the decades.

Look at it from my perspective. I've never hunted. But I always carry "a method of take" with me most places I go (aka a firearm), particularly the NF and BLM. But State Wardens think they can search me, my vehicle, my firearms, all under the auspices of State F&G laws, which is bull**** since I don't hunt.

And anyone who thinks Stare F&G Wardens aren't totally out of control, just watch a few episodes of NatGeo's Wild Justice.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:16 PM
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The Supreme Power of the State . . . .. . .put an authority cowboy like that in a disaster situation where government feels threatened and you have REAL problem on your hands.

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Old 09-17-2011, 4:19 PM
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Mud, reread the post. He admitted to going to or from hunting, admitted to having a license and tags, this warden was F&G to the book.

Vader had unlocked guns in his vehicle and exposed the law allows for an "e" check.

It's vaders own fault for saying the "hunting" word. Which allows the warden to do a more extensive search.

Even you have to admit the OP COULD have remained silent about what he was doing.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:21 PM
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Yup allways take the 5th.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:22 PM
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You guys do realize poachers usually hunt from vehicle.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Mud, reread the post. He admitted to going to or from hunting, admitted to having a license and tags, this warden was F&G to the book.

Vader had unlocked guns in his vehicle and exposed the law allows for an "e" check.

It's vaders own fault for saying the "hunting" word. Which allows the warden to do a more extensive search.

Even you have to admit the OP COULD have remained silent about what he was doing.
Yes mentioning any kind of hunting activity was a mistake. But F&G's legal authority to violate the 4th always bugs me.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:30 PM
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Yes mentioning any kind of hunting activity was a mistake. But F&G's legal authority to violate the 4th always bugs me.
EHH. Its really not that over reaching IMHO. In fact its really no different then driving. LE can pull you over for almost anything they want when you are driving and ask for a license, see if you are drunk,ect. The only difference is that F&G can look for harvested game, If they suspect poaching, or if you have a license/tags to hunt.

You still have to tell them you were hunting first or they would have had to seen you hunt. Even with poaching they have to have proof that you were in fact in the act of poaching prior to inspection.
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Old 09-17-2011, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
Scouting = no guns
Poaching = guns and no license
Hunting = guns and license
Self-Defense = guns and no license
Target Practice = guns and no license
Scouting + Self Defense = guns and no license
Scouting + Self Defense + Target Practice = guns and no license
etc.
I added some to your list (In Bold)
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2011, 4:57 PM
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MudCamper MudCamper is offline
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
EHH. Its really not that over reaching IMHO. In fact its really no different then driving. LE can pull you over for almost anything they want when you are driving and ask for a license, see if you are drunk,ect. The only difference is that F&G can look for harvested game, If they suspect poaching, or if you have a license/tags to hunt.
Well, driving isn't an enumerated right, like the 2A and the 4A. And don't forget F&G can legally violate trespass law also.
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Old 09-17-2011, 5:06 PM
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Well, driving isn't an enumerated right, like the 2A and the 4A. And don't forget F&G can legally violate trespass law also.
Hunting is not an enumerated right either. F&G can not legally violate trespass law either! They may enter private property when they actually see hunting operations taking place and then only to inspect a license/tag/take.


Since hunting is a regulated sport The states interest is in protection of that state resource. Basically the state owns the game until i squeeze the trigger/tag the animal and harvest the food.
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Old 09-17-2011, 5:17 PM
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One question. Did you give him permission to open a closed case? Being that everything was in order. You had proper licenses and tags. Rifles were NOT loaded, No game was found? What difference does it make it you were hunting or scouting? You were legal to do either and he was hoping you were igorant. One more question. Did he check the rifles to determine weather or not they had been fired? IMO. He was looking hard to find something to defend his actions. He lost and resorted to intimidation. Serial numbers noticed during a 12031 check can only be checked if the officer can correctly remember them. Taking the firearm back to their car or photographing them is illegal. I'd talk to an attorney or a CG lawer. Maybe they can put a stop to this and possibly increase their funding. You may advised to delete this post before it is considered dicussing your case... I'm not a lawyer. But I read alot...
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