Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Linkpimp's Avatar
Linkpimp Linkpimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Smile (2) WWII Arisaka Type 99 7.7x58 (1) Early model (1) late model

Hey guys, I just thought I would share some facts, figures and of course some pics of my new toys, I was No-Cal for a few weeks and managed to pick up two Arisaka rifles, well 1 ½ actually


Here’s a brief history of the Arisaka bolt action rifle, incase your curious.
The Type 99 rifle was designed from the existing Type 38 infantry rifle, though chambered to fire the more effective 7.7x58mm Arisaka cartridge.
The Type 99 was one of the standard bolt-action combat rifles to be utilized by the Empire of Japan during the Second World War. At her start, she proved a reliable and robust weapon but the closing noose of the Pacific Theater soon brought about drastic changes in her production methods, often leading to a subclass weapon system. The type was intended to replace the turn-of-the-century Meiji 38th Year rifle but never materialized as an all-out replacement due to demand. The Type 99 was furthered a handful of designs that included the Short Rifle, Long Rifle, an airborne variant and a dedicated sniper model. Production lasted from 1939 into 1945 before ending with Japan's surrender.

The Type 99 made use of the 7.7x58mm Arisaka cartridge of which five such rounds were fed into the system by way of an internal box magazine or "stripper clips". Muzzle velocity was rated at 2,394 feet per second and the firing action was known as "bolt action", requiring each individual round to be loaded by operating the bolt handle. This action ejected any cartridge currently in the firing chamber (spent or not) and introduced a new cartridge ready to fire. Weight was a manageable 8.16lbs while the length measured out to 44 inches with a 26-inch barrel (Short Rifle). An optional bayonet could be fitted to the underside of the barrel, this by way of an attaching lug and loop. The bayonet could be removed and used individually as a combat knife or field utility tool. The monopod was hinged at the second band and folded up against the stock forend. This could be removed if needbe.

Design-wise, the Type 99 followed in line with much of the rifle offerings of the time. She held all of her major components in a wooden frame featuring an ergonomic pistol grip and integrated shoulder stock. The trigger sat within an oblong ring under the main body. Metal works were exposed along the top of the receiver and included the rear sight and the ball-tipped bolt-action lever, offset to the right-hand side. The ejection port was just ahead and above the trigger group and the rear sight just ahead of the ejection port itself. The Type 99 was the first quantitatively produced combat rifle to feature a chrome-lined bore to help with maintenance and cleaning of the rifle. This feature was wholly dropped towards the end of the war to ease production and demand on resources. There were two bands along the foregrip, one just ahead of the receiver and the other just behind the barrel muzzle. The barrel extended a short distance away from the wooden body and sported a simple forward sight atop the muzzle.

Tests on samples of Arisaka rifles conducted after the war showed that their bolts and receivers were constructed of carbon steel "similar to SAE No. 1085 with a carbon content of 0.80% to 0.90%, and a manganese content of 0.60% to 0.90%."[1] During destructive tests, the Arisakas were shown to be stronger than most allied rifles.[2] Some of the early issue Type 99 rifles were fitted with a folding-wire monopod to improve accuracy in the prone position, but due to the fragile nature of the wire, it is at best a wobbly firing platform. The rear sights also featured folding horizontal extensions to give a degree of lead suitable for firing against aircraft.



The first rifle is IMO a beautiful example of extremely well preserved Arisaka Type 99 rifle chambered in 7.7x58.














Last edited by Linkpimp; 09-13-2011 at 11:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Linkpimp's Avatar
Linkpimp Linkpimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default







It has all matching numbers on the rifle & matching numbers on the bolt, unfortunately the two numbers (bolt and rifle) don't match.. O well, I’m not a collector and know that any type 99 bolt fits into any type 99 rifle so I’m good to good there, but it does lessen the value (some what) to others if and or when I ever decide to sell it.










Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:16 PM
Linkpimp's Avatar
Linkpimp Linkpimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Here’s a brief description (and pics of the first one)
It has the following:
Chrome lined barrel and bolt face




The mum was ground down (to save face for the emperor)




Has swivel hinges and a two piece stock







A 1,500 meter sight, although it does not have the anti aircraft wigs on the sight, but I did find them online for $30.00 I also found an origanl dust cover for $12.00 and really any type 30 Jap bayonet will work on it.




Per the original marking on the rifle:
It was produced in 1940 by Nagoya arsenal
Series #2

Considering that the Japanese type 99 was produced from 1939 – 1945 I feel pretty good about it being one the earlier ones out there.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:17 PM
Linkpimp's Avatar
Linkpimp Linkpimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

The next set of pictures is of my late model Arisaka, also know as the (last ditch rifle)

Here’s a brief history of the latter Arisaka models, again just incase your curious.

Despite some early-earned respect, the Type 99 suffered from quality control towards the end of the war with the Japanese Empire war machine was on life-support. Raw materials and competent production processes were both in short supply resulting in rather poor quality and finishes on most of the outgoing Arisaka rifles including the Type 99. Some were shipped without finishes of any kind while others had their rear sites wholly replaced by a more basic and fixed system. Additionally, the machining process involved in the internal components often led to the rifle being quite dangerous to fire for the operator for the core components were ill-produced. As Japanese surrender became all the more imminent, many Army rifles bearing the Imperial Chrysanthemum marking of the Emperor had this emblem grounded down in 1945 to spare the Emperor the embarrassment of surrender. Many surviving rifles are often found with this particular condition, especially late-war/late-model model production versions.


This particular rifle has the following:







None chrome barrel







A welded safety knob verses the flower engraved safety knobs




The metal used on the bolt and receivers where not as high quality as the earlier ones


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:18 PM
Linkpimp's Avatar
Linkpimp Linkpimp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

But it does have

An intact mum




All matching numbers (rifle and bolt)









I also found ammo a few places that sell ammo for it. Garf and sons sells (4) different types and I’m told Calibas sells it too, but I haven’t had the opportunity to checked them out yet.

I purchased 80 rounds from G&S, some 150 gr SPT loads and had the opportunity to test out both of the rifles..





I’m not going to lie, it was a little nerve racking firing the first shoots but after they both held together no worries at all..




Once I got back to So-Cal I purchased the proper dies, powder and bullets for reloading





And proceeded to load up 80 fresh rounds of 180gr SPT loads.





I loaded them up per Sierra Edition V manual using 44.3 gr of IMR4320 which should provide a 2400 muzzle velocity. This is all 7.7x58 jap brass, loaded with Sierra 303 bullets with a diameter of .311, identical to the 303 Brit.

Unfortunately I’ve not had the chance to take the rifle out to anglese (yet) for some long range fun but I’m looking forward to the weekend..

Anyway that’s all I’ve got team.

Thank you for your time and have a great one everybody

Link
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:52 PM
jigenax's Avatar
jigenax jigenax is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 817
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Nice finds! Just wish the industry and gun folks would call the caliber 7.7 Japanese or 7.7 Arisaka.
__________________
USMC 1985-93 0331/32 & 0341
NRA Endowment Life Member
CRPA & SASS Life Member
American Legion Member

CCW: OR, UT, FL, AZ, NV & CA

"Every tyrant in history has known you can't control an armed population. That is why Hitler, Stalin and Mao were strongly against an armed citizenry, while George Washington, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were for it." - B. Wentzel, AZ.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2011, 7:19 AM
mosinnagantm9130's Avatar
mosinnagantm9130 mosinnagantm9130 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Places
Posts: 8,286
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

First one looks like a Nagoya, possibly series 2?
Second one looks like a Tokyo Kogyo?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodEyeSniper View Post
My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-14-2011, 7:26 AM
CC Gunsmithing's Avatar
CC Gunsmithing CC Gunsmithing is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 652
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Sweet Score Link! If you're ever up this way, give a holler, I'll bring grandpa's type 38 (only 6.5 jap but still fun) and his m1 carbine, and we can have a little WW2 reunion!
__________________
http://ccgunsmithing.webs.com/
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2011, 3:14 AM
campperrykid campperrykid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 516
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

IME , when people see a see a summer of 1941 T99 next to a last ditch T99 is reaction something like , " Those guys [ the bosses of the Empire , really ] picked the wrong fight with the wrong victims , what were they thinking ? " .....

__________________
" ... in common use at the time , for all lawful purposes , including self defense . "
Tony from New York .

Conflict Resolution 201:
Pickaxe Handles Rule , The Battleship Missouri is usually a serious attention getter with more clout than just it's weapons/armor/mobility could generate. South Korean volunteers with Claymores strapped to thier chests and clackers in hand are a clear indication of Allied resolve. Puts the ! on the end of :
Don't MESS with US !

Last edited by campperrykid; 09-15-2011 at 3:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2011, 2:31 PM
Levetti's Avatar
Levetti Levetti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 332
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Last ditch t99s lack alot compared to other t99s; no monopods, no wings on the sights, no chrome barrel, no flower textured safety (almost impossible to turn with sweaty hands), and no type markings, You can tell they were falling on difficult times while producing these... Very cool rifles, all you need now is a monopod, bayonet, and the wings for your sight. Do type 99s have dust covers or is that only on type 38s?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Sampachi's Avatar
Sampachi Sampachi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacifica Ca.
Posts: 808
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Looks like a nice shooter. I've rarely encountered the Nagoya 2nd series T99. The mismatched bolt is from a Kokura arsenal rifle. The second one is a 34th series rifle from Toyo Kogyo (now Mazda). The last series they made was the 35th. IMHO, TK rifles are some of the best made. They did their best to keep up standards through out the war. Also my opinion only, but the monopod does help with shooting a bit; sandbags work just as well, if not better.
With a little bit of trimming, 30.06 brass works just fine for reloading. That makes for a cheap alternative for brass. You can also get away with pulling bullets from 7.62x54r if you need some for shooting. For fun, I've pulled Tokarev bullets, powder, and loaded them into 7.7x58 brass for "galley" ammo. Just add some dacron or cotton to keep the powder close to the primer's flash hole.

Levetti - Type 99's did have dustcovers (incompatible with T38s), but they were dropped off later in production. Some very rare Nagoya last ditch rifles don't even have the grooves for adding one!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-16-2011, 2:24 AM
campperrykid campperrykid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 516
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

8x57 Mauser brass will be just a little short when it is resized into 7.7x58 imperial.
__________________
" ... in common use at the time , for all lawful purposes , including self defense . "
Tony from New York .

Conflict Resolution 201:
Pickaxe Handles Rule , The Battleship Missouri is usually a serious attention getter with more clout than just it's weapons/armor/mobility could generate. South Korean volunteers with Claymores strapped to thier chests and clackers in hand are a clear indication of Allied resolve. Puts the ! on the end of :
Don't MESS with US !
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-16-2011, 9:53 AM
Levetti's Avatar
Levetti Levetti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 332
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampachi View Post
I've rarely encountered the Nagoya 2nd series T99... IMHO, TK rifles are some of the best made. They did their best to keep up standards through out the war.
Are the 2nd series Nagoya T99s rare for a reason? I have 2 Nagoya 3rd series T99s... Out of all my T99s the Toyo Kogyo T99 series 33 seems to be the Least well made, but that is only based off of looks, it looks like it was made and pieced togather in a hurry...I need to start reloading so I can get one of these rifles out to the range sometime.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-16-2011, 1:04 PM
mosinnagantm9130's Avatar
mosinnagantm9130 mosinnagantm9130 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Places
Posts: 8,286
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

What date range was the second series Nagoya made? It may have been originally made without the AA wings.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodEyeSniper View Post
My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-16-2011, 2:26 PM
campperrykid campperrykid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 516
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thumbs up Spot On !

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
What date range was the second series Nagoya made? It may have been originally made without the AA wings.
The conventional wisdom on restoring most WW2 guns ( all counties ) is often pure BS made up by gunhumpers , scalpers , liars , cheats & traveling circus freaks..
Innocent but inexperienced people end up spending huge amounts of time & money and completely trashing the historical value of the artifact . Not to mention spending $100's or $1000's to reduce the market value of the gun.
__________________
" ... in common use at the time , for all lawful purposes , including self defense . "
Tony from New York .

Conflict Resolution 201:
Pickaxe Handles Rule , The Battleship Missouri is usually a serious attention getter with more clout than just it's weapons/armor/mobility could generate. South Korean volunteers with Claymores strapped to thier chests and clackers in hand are a clear indication of Allied resolve. Puts the ! on the end of :
Don't MESS with US !
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-16-2011, 3:53 PM
Levetti's Avatar
Levetti Levetti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 332
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
What date range was the second series Nagoya made? It may have been originally made without the AA wings.
1939-1945 was the date range. It has a spot for the wings; the sights without wings don't even have a spot to put them.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-16-2011, 8:33 PM
Sampachi's Avatar
Sampachi Sampachi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacifica Ca.
Posts: 808
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Estimated date of production for the 2nd Series is April 42 to August 42. It should have the AA wings, monopod and dust cover. The strikes against this one are the mismatched bolt and the sanded stock. Might not be worth restoring as an investment, but worth doing it for fun if you can get the parts cheaply. A $12 dust cover is very cheap!!

The 34th is estimated to have been made made from July to December of 1944. If you get a chance to compare it with a Nagoya or Kokura rifle made at the same time, you will appreciate the differences.

8x57 brass works fine unaltered... but... spare, reloadable 30.06 is easy to find. I usually get free 30.06 brass every time I go to the range!

I have no idea why the 2nd and 3rd series are one of the uncommon ones. I tend to run into Nagoya 0, 1st & 4th series more often than 2nd and 3rd. They aren't rare, just uncommon. Perhaps they are at the bottom of the Pacific?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-16-2011, 10:41 PM
mosinnagantm9130's Avatar
mosinnagantm9130 mosinnagantm9130 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Places
Posts: 8,286
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levetti View Post
1939-1945 was the date range. It has a spot for the wings; the sights without wings don't even have a spot to put them.


Some rifles with the AA sights were produced without the wings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampachi View Post
Estimated date of production for the 2nd Series is April 42 to August 42. It should have the AA wings, monopod and dust cover.


They aren't rare, just uncommon. Perhaps they are at the bottom of the Pacific?
That would explain that then. I thought it might've been one of the late, but still pre-substitute standard rifles without those features.

Or on the bottom of Tokyo Bay....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodEyeSniper View Post
My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:55 AM
rocko5968 rocko5968 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You all seem very knowledgeable of this gun. I think I have one as well, but I am unsure, the stock looks different, than all ya'lls and newer for sure, looks like someone replaced the original. any comments or ideas what I might have?? Anything would be great, someone said that they sometimes re-chambered this gun to a 30-6 is that true, or was the shop selling gun chamber castings??? I would love to shoot this gun, but I don't know what kind of ammo to use!!

Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4936.jpg (85.3 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4937.jpg (89.6 KB, 12 views)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:45 AM
beerman beerman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,276
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

I'll play, heres a few pics of my 99

Last edited by beerman; 10-24-2014 at 5:07 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:39 PM
rocko5968 rocko5968 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

by the looks of yours beerman I would say that my stock for sure has been replaced. . . Don't know or know how to tell. . .
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-02-2012, 1:38 PM
beerman beerman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,276
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko5968 View Post
by the looks of yours beerman I would say that my stock for sure has been replaced. . . Don't know or know how to tell. . .
Yor stock was replaced with a sporter stock. This was a popular gun to sporterize back in the 50s &60s because there were a zillion of them out there with cut stocks. The G.Is used to saw the stocks down so they could fit into their duffel bags for the trip home. As for shooting yours, I would have a gunsmith (or someone competent)make a chamber mold to be sure of what you have.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-02-2012, 1:59 PM
Vlad 11's Avatar
Vlad 11 Vlad 11 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.V.
Posts: 2,802
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko5968 View Post
You all seem very knowledgeable of this gun. I think I have one as well, but I am unsure, the stock looks different, than all ya'lls and newer for sure, looks like someone replaced the original. any comments or ideas what I might have?? Anything would be great, someone said that they sometimes re-chambered this gun to a 30-6 is that true, or was the shop selling gun chamber castings??? I would love to shoot this gun, but I don't know what kind of ammo to use!!

Thanks
Ouch, looks like bubba drilled right through the mum and reblued, sad. The T99 is chambered in 7.7x58 Arisaka. Not cheap ammo but relatively easy to locate.

A 30-06 will not chamber in an unmodified T99.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:20 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.