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  #1  
Old 09-13-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default Kel-tec KSG

I just found out about kel-tec's KSG. So beautiful. I want one. Does anyone know if this has been banned in california yet?
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:08 PM
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It's looks really cool. I was watching shot show on youtube and the guy said that they are making one that is cali compliant.

they should make a semi auto version. If this kel tec was semi shotty i would take this one over the saiga.
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2011, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtahatta View Post
I just found out about kel-tec's KSG. So beautiful. I want one. Does anyone know if this has been banned in california yet?
It's not banned in CA.

However, there is some debate on it's legality due to it's ammo capacity.
The debate is, is the fixed tubular magazine's capacity comprised of two seperate feeding tubes (7+7+1) or is the two feeding tubes considered one unit (14+1). If it's two seperate feeding tubes, then it's CA legal. If it's one unit, then it can't be sold to non-exempt persons in CA due to it having a large capacity magazine.

There are a few already in CA, possessed by prop masters, for use in the movie industry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tvfreakarms View Post
they should make a semi auto version. If this kel tec was semi shotty i would take this one over the saiga.
If it was semi-auto, then it would be illegal in CA due to being an "assault weapon".
I be wrong. Sorry for the bad info.
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  #4  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:15 AM
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That is a really neat looking gun. Interesting design.
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  #5  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
If it was semi-auto, then it would be illegal in CA due to being an "assault weapon".
why would it be an AW?
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  #6  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's not banned in CA.

However, there is some debate on it's legality due to it's ammo capacity.
The debate is, is the fixed tubular magazine's capacity comprised of two seperate feeding tubes (7+7+1) or is the two feeding tubes considered one unit (14+1). If it's two seperate feeding tubes, then it's CA legal. If it's one unit, then it can't be sold to non-exempt persons in CA due to it having a large capacity magazine.

There are a few already in CA, possessed by prop masters, for use in the movie industry.



If it was semi-auto, then it would be illegal in CA due to being an "assault weapon".
Read the aw flowchart. If its a semi-auto shotgun fed from a tubular magazine there's not much to worry about. The only way it would be an AW is if it was banned by name or had a telescopic/folding stock and the pistol grip... Other then that the KSG looks sick!
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Old 09-14-2011, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
If it was semi-auto, then it would be illegal in CA due to being an "assault weapon".
There would be no reason for it to be considered an AW in CA if semi-auto. Not sure how you came up with that.
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  #8  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:21 PM
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so far as i see it, it is CA legal. 18" barrel (bullpup design) two seperate feeding tubes that hold 7 rounds each (you have to manually toggle a lever to start feeding from the other tube, or center it to be single shot for special purpose rounds.)

Fcuk California! i want one!!!
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:28 PM
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Shorter OAL than a 12" SBS pump without the paperwork and $200 tax stamp.
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:29 PM
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Far as I see it, the KSG is still vaporware..... something Kel-Tec is somewhat known for.

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  #11  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
Far as I see it, the KSG is still vaporware..... something Kel-Tec is somewhat known for.

Just like the Keltec rfb I am waiting for.Vaporware.........
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2011, 2:38 PM
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It's a pump action shotgun. It's not semi-auto. The pistol grip and other "evil" features are not relevant, since it's not semi-auto and does not have detachable mags (like the Saiga 12), so the AWB isn't really an issue here. The overall length meets federal regs (since pump shotguns don't trigger the CA AWB 30" restrictions), so why wouldn't it be CA legal?

Provided it actually exists...
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interfan View Post
It's a pump action shotgun. It's not semi-auto. The pistol grip and other "evil" features are not relevant, since it's not semi-auto and does not have detachable mags (like the Saiga 12), so the AWB isn't really an issue here. The overall length meets federal regs (since pump shotguns don't trigger the CA AWB 30" restrictions), so why wouldn't it be CA legal?

Provided it actually exists...
Well, because it's california...
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtahatta View Post
I just found out about kel-tec's KSG. So beautiful. I want one. Does anyone know if this has been banned in california yet?
Keltec says it will be released end of 2011, so expect it around the beginning of 2013
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  #15  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robcoe View Post
Keltec says it will be released end of 2011, so expect it around the beginning of 2013
Aren't you being a bit optimistic?
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notme92069 View Post
Aren't you being a bit optimistic?
What can I say, I always like to give a company the benefit of the doubt.
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:23 PM
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http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...=50&item_num=#

here is a price anticipation......

still want one
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2011, 11:02 PM
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The potential problem is not the assault weapon laws, it's the high cap magazine laws.

CA Penal Code:
12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes
to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-
capacity magazine.

12020 (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity
magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include any of the following:

(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so
that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

So it all depends on how "ammunition feeding device" is defined.
With the KSG, the ammunition is loaded into one port and ejected through one port. It could be argued that the two tubes that are connected, and fed through one port is a single "ammunition feeding device".
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2011, 8:41 AM
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Well if that's the case then all those who own double mag holders for their AR/AK are in deep trouble!
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Old 09-16-2011, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So it all depends on how "ammunition feeding device" is defined.
With the KSG, the ammunition is loaded into one port and ejected through one port. It could be argued that the two tubes that are connected, and fed through one port is a single "ammunition feeding device".
Have you handled a KSG?
The two tubes have separate loading ports inside the "Buttstock" You have to toggle a switch to select which tube you want to load. No way it can be construed as a "single ammunition feeding device"
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Old 09-16-2011, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
Well if that's the case then all those who own double mag holders for their AR/AK are in deep trouble!
No, because you have to physically remove one magazine from the gun to move the other in position to fire.
As I stated, this is a "potential problem" and even some of the "right people" here are looking at it.
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2011, 3:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
No, because you have to physically remove one magazine from the gun to move the other in position to fire.
As I stated, this is a "potential problem" and even some of the "right people" here are looking at it.
Yeah, but with the KSG you still have to "physically" move the switch from side to side.
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Old 09-16-2011, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
Yeah, but with the KSG you still have to "physically" move the switch from side to side.
But you don't have to physically remove one magazine to switch to the other. It's all part of the internal parts of the gun.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 09-16-2011 at 3:40 PM..
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2012, 6:18 PM
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i read somewhere that keltec has shipped out 250 ksgs out before xmas. Next shipment will be in the middle of jan.2012 Got one preordered at tombstone tactical, saving my chips right now and hopefully they'll make it to cali soon.
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Old 01-02-2012, 7:03 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&highlight=KSG

That's another (recent) thread about this already. Some calgunners already have theirs. Arguing about the legality of a weapon already being delivered is kinda pointless, don'tcha think?

There were threads about its legality a year ago.
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Old 01-02-2012, 7:40 PM
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Tombstone tactical are good people. I was just at their house last week. I think their waiting list is in the 300's!?
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Old 01-02-2012, 7:47 PM
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I'll be picking one of these up!
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Old 01-03-2012, 2:36 AM
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when i first saw this it blew my mind wanted one so bad but after watching the nutnfancy vids of it.it lost its luster to me takes forever to load and mag switch was weird to get to and safety placement sucks you can press it by mistake if your running .But damn if it aint sexy as hell
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Old 01-03-2012, 2:38 AM
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gotta be semi for me to get it then its its just pure win.
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Old 01-03-2012, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENVYGREEN View Post
Tombstone tactical are good people. I was just at their house last week. I think their waiting list is in the 300's!?
thats good to hear, never dealt with that company but i've heard nothing bad about them. I just hope they don't jack up the price like other stores i've seen. I remember when cali started getting saiga12s and 1 shop said $1000 when I was able to get it online for half the price. It wasn't even converted either.
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Old 01-03-2012, 9:36 AM
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Just make sure you have some sort of stop at the end of the forend is all I'm saying!
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Old 01-03-2012, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uongkevin View Post
thats good to hear, never dealt with that company but i've heard nothing bad about them. I just hope they don't jack up the price like other stores i've seen. I remember when cali started getting saiga12s and 1 shop said $1000 when I was able to get it online for half the price. It wasn't even converted either.
nope you'll be fine. They just had a smith and wesson governor in stock which I was debating on and the price was the best in the country. That's almost as rare right now.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjl333 View Post
Just make sure you have some sort of stop at the end of the forend is all I'm saying!
vertical grip is a must!
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2012, 1:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uongkevin View Post
vertical grip is a must!
when I get my KSG I plan to see how a Magpul VFG works first
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Old 01-04-2012, 9:51 PM
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Talked to the local Turners here in San Diego, asked the guys about the Kel-Tec KSG. One of the clerks said it will be a 7+7+1 and CA LEGAL (Since it two seperate tubes, less than 10rds each, and you have to manually switch to each tubes). And they won't take reservations since they have over 200 in pre-orders right now.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolipse35 View Post
Talked to the local Turners here in San Diego, asked the guys about the Kel-Tec KSG. One of the clerks said it will be a 7+7+1 and CA LEGAL (Since it two seperate tubes, less than 10rds each, and you have to manually switch to each tubes). And they won't take reservations since they have over 200 in pre-orders right now.
You can try Direct Action Solutions. They have a very short list.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2012, 4:24 PM
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Default Called the DOJ

Try calling the DOJ:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-FORCE View Post
So I called CA DOJ in Sacto today about the KSG legality.

By no means am I advocating that the person who answers the phone is sound legal advice but I thought what I discussed was worth passing on.

DOJ has this gun up for legal review with no stated date for determination. The review as many already have discussed is simply based on how to define the double tube magazine and what that means for acceptable round count in CA.

The interesting part is that whether my next statement would hold up in law or not, is that, I was told until a ruling is made DOJ would allow them to be sold to CA residents. If after a determination, it was concluded they were deamed AW's then the owner ahead of the ruling would be grandfathered into ownership. Owner would be given a period of time to register with DOJ as an AW or of course sell or remove from CA.

So the only challenge might be finding a local FFL that is up to date on this item and willing to sign it over based on this grey period.

Hope this is helpful... let the buying frenzy and rush begin!
Discussion follows about how it wouldn't be an assault weapon.
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Old 01-06-2012, 1:59 PM
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Not even sure why you would make that phone call.. and even open that door.

BTW, the buying frenzy and rush has been on for months - you just can't get your hands on one.
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Old 01-06-2012, 7:49 PM
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Preban KSG, lol... gee gawd...
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