Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #281  
Old 09-10-2012, 9:13 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Thanks everyone for the kind comments. I enjoy making these updates as well, it helps pass the time between lots I'm waiting for

I realized I didn't report on the third day results too much other than talking about the items I won. This will be the final report for the Sept auction. I'll just point out some interesting results (or at least things that I am interested in), as well as some overall trends.

In general RIA or the other high end auctions like James Julia are not the places to go for "bargains". If anything, prices of the guns will be higher especially when you add in the buyer premium. However, they do make it convenient to find rare or unusual pieces, or collector guns in high condition. If you have patience you can find better deals through the collector forums dedicated to that pistol or manufacturer. This is especially true if the gun is being offered by a member in high standing on that forum.

For example, two years ago I purchased a somewhat rare "SVW45" marked P38 from a well known member on the p38 forums. The gun was described as all original and matching. I received an excellent condition duo-tone P38 manufactured late in the war at the mauser factory. It is marked with both SVW45 as well as the german waffenamt. I paid about $2000 for the pistol, pictured here:



At this RIA they had a similar pistol in similar condition.


This gun sold for about $5000 (when all the fees and what not are added in). Now granted this lot came with a holster, but that's worth about $400 at most. So figure about $4600 for the gun.

Either my SVW45 has gone up in value a whole bunch, or the buyer paid more than market by going through the auction. Probably a little of both. Anyways my point is, if you are really looking for a "good deal" it's probably best to visit the various collector forums and wait for an opportunity to spring up.

alternatively, you can go through the auctions but be prepared to pay

alrighty back to the eye candy and results...

Just an amazing Cased set for Stoeger company (US distributors for DWM). Two lugers and a Walther with Zeiss scope. Sold for $85,000


Wow. too bad we live in California. This is just an awesome piece of history. MP44 Sturmgewehr DEWAT. DEWAT stands for Deactivated War Trophy. With the right paperwork and the $200 tax stamp you can return it back to operational status. but alas, that is only in free states. no NFA weapons for us in California.
Sold for $11,000.
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 09-10-2012, 9:51 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Before I got the hands-on inspection, the lot I was most interested in was for a Pre-War Colt National Match. As I said in an earlier post I kind of have a mini national match collection going.

Depression era colts are some of the most beautiful finished colts out there. Maybe because demand wasn't high, or Colt only kept the best artisans, but they are just finished to a degree that we don't see anymore. Up for auction was a Pre-War Colt National Match with adjustable sight (even rarer).

Unfortunately the physical inspection for this gun was not good, as several issues were discovered. I don't want to be too specific and public about the issues as I feel it would be unfair to the new owner of this gun. PM me if you want more info. I have to admit, it definately is a looker! Auction estimate was $5000-$7500, sold for $10,000.


After I got the inspection reports I switched gears and instead went after a Pre-War Super Match. Similar to a National Match, but chambered in .38 super instead. Even rarer then the National Match. this one got a healthy report. Auction estimate was $6,000-$9,000. I bid significantly over the high estimate, but ultimately stopped before the gun got to double the market "worth". Still I don't think the winner did too badly, this one was CHOICE. Sold $15,000


I think Pre-Series 70 National Matches will continue to appreciate. The good news is that you can still find some locally. In fact I think one recently sold here on Calguns for $1400 with the box and everything too. Someone got a steal! This one sold for $2500.


Prices for Pythons continue to go nuts. This 4" model sold for double the high estimate, at $3500!


I would have loved to be able to buy this set, but unfortunately the short barrel length makes it problematic to bring in. The "Snake Eyes" set is one of the grails for Python collectors. In the past I've seen these sets sell in the $6000 range. This one sold for $8500


In summary prices continue to increase for high condition collectible firearms. Pythons seem to have gone crazy with prices dramatically increasing in just the year or two that I've been watching them. War time colts continue to be popular as well.

It's easy to get carried away bidding, so it's always a good plan to set a limit and stick to it. Don't forget there is that buyer's premium to tack onto the final price.

The other thing is to be patient. Unless it's super rare (like 10 made), another will come along. Especially if the item brings high dollars -- other owners will take notice and try to "cash in" on the current interest in the item. For example, for the longest time there were no T3 carbines at auction (a M1 carbine with infrared scope). Then two years ago one sold for big dollars ($27K if I recall). Now all of a sudden I see T3 carbines in every auction since then.

Anyways, time to wrap this installment up. I hope you enjoyed participating in the Sept auction with me. Next one is December -- perhaps another Pre-War National Match may show up in that one

A special request. Mods, people with influence, etc. If you've enjoyed this thread I respectfully ask you to consider a request. The 6 picture limit per post is extremely low. This because smilies also count as pictures. No other forum that I participate in has this limit set so low. when I post about a historical gun, I try to show pictures of not only the gun, but the historical event, the person, related ads or material,etc. 6 is just not enough. Would you please consider upping the limit just a bit? thank you for your consideration

Last edited by beetle; 09-10-2012 at 10:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 09-11-2012, 5:31 PM
Neptune's Avatar
Neptune Neptune is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,164
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Cool thread. I've followed it for quite a long time and am always pleased with the newest updates. I'm a shooter, not a collector, but I'm really glad that someone can document and curate these important historical items for future generations.

Nice work!


__
__________________

I don't think it's nice,...you laughing.
You see, my mule don't like people laughing.
He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him.
Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to,
I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 11-28-2012, 2:13 PM
Quinc's Avatar
Quinc Quinc is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Butte County
Posts: 2,978
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Any November auctions?
__________________
Shop Amazon and contribute to CGF!
click this link before going to amazon.com
http://www.shop42a.com


www.appleseedinfo.org

"Everyone has a plan, till they get punched in the face." -Mike Tyson
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 11-28-2012, 2:40 PM
me109g4 me109g4 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rindge NH
Posts: 619
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Nov. 30 to Dec 2 is the next one.
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:38 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

as a whole the upcoming auction is less interesting for me (no notable guns in the areas that I collect in). I still plan on bidding on a few items. anyways sorry I didn't do an auction preview this time about - I may still update with auction commentary and results though.
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:50 PM
me109g4 me109g4 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rindge NH
Posts: 619
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Beetle, did u get a chance to browse the Walthers??? they have some nice ones this time around, including 3 prewar PP with consecutive numbers!
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:22 PM
buochie buochie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 638
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default



[QUOTE=beetle;8440911]alcatraz marked winchester model 12 riot gun



Sold over estimate at $1500.
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:33 PM
Maltese Falcon's Avatar
Maltese Falcon Maltese Falcon is offline
Ordo Militaris Templi
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 5,302
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

How did I ever miss this thread?

Wow, that was a refreshing time out from the poitical arena.

Many thanks!

-Larry
__________________
The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded. Charles-Louis de Secondat (1689-1755) Baron de Montesquieu


In America, freedom and justice have always come from the ballot box, the jury box, and when that fails, the cartridge box.
Steve Symms, ex-U.S. Senator, Idaho

Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 03-02-2013, 3:25 PM
adgrimm03 adgrimm03 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Livermore
Posts: 378
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Big ups beetle! This is one of the coolest threads I've ever read. WOW I thought I had a cool collection Time to start stepping my game up.
Thank you brother for some awesome info.
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 03-03-2013, 11:11 AM
Ishoot's Avatar
Ishoot Ishoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,176
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

One of the coolest threads I've read in while on CG. Definitely makes me want to add to my meager collection. Thanks OP.
__________________
"If you're going through Hell, keep going."
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 03-03-2013, 8:15 PM
ImpaktechUSA ImpaktechUSA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 378
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

best thread I've ever read thanks OP
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 04-11-2013, 7:19 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Guess what time it is boys and girls? You got it, time for the next Rock Island Auction! In just one short week several million dollars worth of drool-worthy high condition collectible guns are on the block.

After skipping the last auction (November), I'd figure I'd do an update to this thread. So sit back, relax, and enjoy as we take a look at interesting guns coming up for sale, some auction commentary, and seeing what things go for. It will be interesting to see if the current gun buying craze has any impact to the collectible market.

One of the more interesting lots is a box of 30 WW2 era p38s. I originally thought this was a crate of russian capture P38s but after reading the description it is not. It's a mix of original WW2 P38s from a variety of manufacturers -- Spreewerke, Mauser, Walther, etc. $22,500-$32,500.



oooo, this would be a holy grail for some collectors. During WWI the US invented a device that would convert the then bolt-action 1903 rifle into a semi-automatic (20+ years before the garand). The Pedersen device replaces to standard bolt of a 1903 and fired a low-velocity 30 caliber bullet. On the other side of the device a 40 round stick magazine was attached.

The united states classified the pedersen device as a "secret weapon". the plan was to surprise the germans during a Spring offensive in 1919. As we all know, WWI ended before the devices could be utilized. In 1931 the weapon was declassified and all stocks destroyed. With the exception of a very few devices (smuggled, stolen, etc), very few pedersen devices exist. This one is extra special in that it has the original metal storage container and accesories. Complete with a modified Springfield 1903 Rifle designed to accept the device, this is a rare item indeed. Auction estimate is $45,000-$60,000




This one gives me the willies -- I wouldn't want it. The personal PPK of Heinrich Himmler -- one of humanities worst monsters. Auction estimate is $60,000-$90,000.


Oh my, if only we weren't in California. A turnkey MG42 setup, complete with 4 WW2 8mm barrels and 1 post-war 7.62 NATO barrel. $40,000-$60,0000


One guy unloaded a gigantic collection of armor for this auction. All of this stuff used to decorate his house! (talk about a man cave!). This horse and rider armor is expected to bring between $35,000-$75,000.


Before Eugene Stoner went on to invent the M16/AR15 series of rifles, he invented the Stoner 63 light machine gun. COD players will recognize this one! It had a number of innovative features for it's time including the ability to reconfigure it with different barrels and modulear components. It was used in Vietnam and stayed in the military inventory until replaced by the SAW. As a pre-68 weapon it's fully transferable. Very few of these are in private collections. $35,000-$65,000


Something in my collecting area of interest -- A very nice M1911 from 1912 marked "Model of US Navy". In the early days of 1911 production Colt distinguished between Army and Navy purchases by marking them appropriately. However In 1915 the army took over all procurement for the military and asked Colt to standardize markings. From that point on all M1911s, regardless of their ultimate destination were marked "Model of US Army". Note Colt never made any Model of US Marines -- anything marked as such would be a forgery.

This one appears to be in very nice condition, $18,000-$27,500


...more to come as I make my way through the catalog....

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 7:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 04-11-2013, 9:26 PM
motox917's Avatar
motox917 motox917 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SixSixOne
Posts: 447
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

This thread is awesome! thanks for sharing OP
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:44 PM
mosinnagantm9130's Avatar
mosinnagantm9130 mosinnagantm9130 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Places
Posts: 8,379
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I love this thread!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodEyeSniper View Post
My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 04-12-2013, 1:05 PM
Kurus214 Kurus214 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 484
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

thank you for sharing a very cool experience.
Sorry you didn't get it, but it looks like you expanded your collection quite a bit.
__________________
The Bigger the Government, the Smaller the Citizen


CGF/SAF/FPC Supporter

"There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 04-12-2013, 1:13 PM
BisDak's Avatar
BisDak BisDak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geo:5.166667,120.25
Posts: 631
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

That Himmler pistol gives me the creep. If guns have eyes...I can just imagine.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 04-12-2013, 1:32 PM
Quinc's Avatar
Quinc Quinc is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Butte County
Posts: 2,978
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

w00t! Can't wait for updates!
__________________
Shop Amazon and contribute to CGF!
click this link before going to amazon.com
http://www.shop42a.com


www.appleseedinfo.org

"Everyone has a plan, till they get punched in the face." -Mike Tyson
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 04-12-2013, 5:09 PM
Ferrum's Avatar
Ferrum Ferrum is offline
Janitors Mop
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,229
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Blog Entries: 3
Default

Amazing to see that kind of history...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 04-12-2013, 7:31 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Of course one of the most collectible/famous of all revolvers would be the Colt Walkers. I've written about them in past auctions, this one is a Company A model issued to either the Texas Mounted Volunteers or US Mounted Rifles.

What makes this particular one special is that it was the centerpiece for the Harold's Club Collection and was displayed at the Casino for many many years. Auction estimate is $85,000-$110,000



Before revolvers became the norm the Volcanic Arms company experimented in lever action pistols. This one is unique in that it has a 16 1/2" barrel. Imagine trying to support this massive handgun! while the repeating rifle was not very succesful, Volcanic eventually became the Winchester Repeating Arms company and we all know the success of the lever action rifle. Auction estimate is $22,500-$32,500


"he was compensating"
made by a Pennsylavnia gunsmith who got tired of hearing how far his competitor's guns would shot, this "over the mountain" Kentucky long rifle takes the cake! Auction estimate is $4k-7K


Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 7:23 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #301  
Old 04-12-2013, 7:38 PM
leeb10 leeb10 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Holy crap that Kentucky long rifle is crazy. Do you know how tall that rifle actually is? Never seen anything like that before haha
Reply With Quote
  #302  
Old 04-20-2013, 9:12 AM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

I only bid on one lot yesterday. What I was trying to get was this stunning Smith & Wesson registered magnum. Auction estimate was $3000-$4000. So the auction house calls me and they ask what I wanted to bid up until. I'm thinking "look at me mr big shot, I'm gonna bid $5K. That should do it!"



bidding opened at $8K and the gun was sold at $10K. Someone with deep pockets slapped aside my bid and put me in my place ha ha ha

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 7:23 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #303  
Old 04-21-2013, 7:38 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

ok auction is over. Here are some interesting lots and their results.

The lever action pistol sold for $20K


In general the armor was sold at expected prices (aligned with the auction house estimate). This one sold for $13,000


This beautiful chinese sword sold for $9500


The crate of 30 WW2 era P38s sold for $22,500.


OK I am totally missing something on this lot. Auction estimate was $1400 to $2,250. It sold for $18,000!!!! Seem to be a pristine byf/44, but there must be something special for it to sell so high. Correction typo on the auction site. Sold for $1800


One day I will acquire one of these 2 1/2" pythons. damn your roster! damn you to hell! Sold for $2750


A nice pre-series 70 gold cup national match. Sold $2250


That "Model of 1911 US Navy" sold for double the high estimate. $45,000


Sometimes your telephone agent can make a huge difference. For this lot I got a agent that wasn't quite up to par with the usually excellent agents from Rock Island. Normally they will tell you if you own the high bid or if you've been outbid. On this one I told the guy that I was willing to go to $3500 so when the bid went to $3500 and stalled I thought I had it. The agent never told me that I had been outbid. Then at the last second he goes "yes or no?" and I'm like "yes or not what?"... too late, sold to another guy who also bid at $3500. I'm a sucker for nitre blue parts.

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 2:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #304  
Old 04-21-2013, 7:46 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

That Himmler PPK sold for $40,000. Well under the auction estimate of $60-$90K. I guess it gives other people the willies as well.


The 1903 with Pedersen device sold for $60,000


I ended up only buying one item from this auction. a very nice WW2 Ithaca.



That's about it for this auction report. Next auction is June, but that is their regional one where they sell stuff off that is not in as great condition. I'll likely skip over that auction and do a read out of the September Premiere auction. Hope you enjoyed the few updates that I provided.

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 2:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #305  
Old 04-21-2013, 9:51 PM
The sarge's Avatar
The sarge The sarge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Camp Pendleton
Posts: 527
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Beetle, I know this may be outside the box but after reading this and seeing your expertise on these guns maybe you can point me in the right direction. I would like to own some pieces of Marine Corps history, but I really don't know where to start. I would really like a few weapons with stories behind them.
Reply With Quote
  #306  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:10 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The sarge View Post
Beetle, I know this may be outside the box but after reading this and seeing your expertise on these guns maybe you can point me in the right direction. I would like to own some pieces of Marine Corps history, but I really don't know where to start. I would really like a few weapons with stories behind them.

Hi. I'm not an expert, a lot of what I write is just re-telling of what is in the auction catalogs. But one piece that sticks out in my mind as uniquely USMC is the M1941 Johnson Rifle.

Melvin Johnson was in the USMC and knew that there might be an opportunity as the corps were always last on the list behind the army when it came to new weapons. so even as the army was switching out the venerable 1903 to the M1 Garand, Johnson tried to get his rifle certified as an alternate battle rifle.

The netherlands put in an order with him. But before he could ship them, the US got involved in the war and the entire production run was re-allocated to the marines who were headed to the pacific.

By most accounts the Johnson rifle performed well, but they were ultimately replaced by M1 Garands in an effort to standardize.

Today there are two types of Johnsons readily seen. After the war the winfield company bought up a lot of leftover stock and sporterized them. These sporterized Johnsons typically run in the $2-$3K range. Johnsons in proper military configuration typically run $4-6K.

this is a nice one that sold for $5500

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 7:25 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #307  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:18 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

The other example I can think of is to find a 1911 that was issued to the marine corps. Unlike the early Navy units (see the one above that sold for $45,000), colt never made any 1911s marked "Model of US Marine Corps". All marine 1911s were marked "Model of US Army". However we do have the shipping logs and know which serial numbers were sent to the marines.

This is nice looking one that was refinished, but we know from the serial # that it went to the marines in a lot of 600 sihpped on NOvember 27, 1916. Sold for $4250.

Last edited by beetle; 04-22-2013 at 7:25 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #308  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:15 AM
ccandgc's Avatar
ccandgc ccandgc is offline
831
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterey Peninsula
Posts: 1,870
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

I need to add one of these to my collection.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle View Post
Hi. I'm not an expert, a lot of what I write is just re-telling of what is in the auction catalogs. But one piece that sticks out in my mind as uniquely USMC is the M1941 Johnson Rifle.

Melvin Johnson was in the USMC and knew that there might be an opportunity as the corps were always last on the list behind the army when it came to new weapons. so even as the army was switching out the venerable 1903 to the M1 Garand, Johnson tried to get his rifle certified as an alternate battle rifle.

The netherlands put in an order with him. But before he could ship them, the US got involved in the war and the entire production run was re-allocated to the marines who were headed to the pacific.

By most accounts the Johnson rifle performed well, but they were ultimately replaced by M1 Garands in an effort to standardize.

Today there are two types of Johnsons readily seen. After the war the winfield company bought up a lot of leftover stock and sporterized them. These sporterized Johnsons typically run in the $2-$3K range. Johnsons in proper military configuration typically run $4-6K.

this is a nice one that sold for $5500
__________________
-Chad
Reply With Quote
  #309  
Old 04-22-2013, 4:06 PM
Some Guy's Avatar
Some Guy Some Guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Freehold, Iowa
Posts: 1,977
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccandgc View Post
I need to add one of these to my collection.....
http://bullseyesportingarms.com/phot...ategory=Rifles
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmednReady View Post
Your tears are like candy to me....mmmmmmmmm yum yum.
Reply With Quote
  #310  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:59 PM
The sarge's Avatar
The sarge The sarge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Camp Pendleton
Posts: 527
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Beetle thank you very much. I have never seen the Johnson before. You said that the 1911's can be traced. How do I do that? I think what I may be more looking for is a shooter than a true collector piece. I honestly could not buy it without shooting it from time to time.
Reply With Quote
  #311  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:10 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The sarge View Post
Beetle thank you very much. I have never seen the Johnson before. You said that the 1911's can be traced. How do I do that? I think what I may be more looking for is a shooter than a true collector piece. I honestly could not buy it without shooting it from time to time.
The military kept logs of which serial numbers went where. You can find copies of these logs in either Charles Clawson's book "Collector's guide to Colt .45 Service pistols" or Joe Poyer's "The Model 1911 and Model 1911A1 Military and Commercial Pistols"

From the book we know the following serial #s were sent to the USMC:
3501-3800
36401-37650
83901-84400
151187-151986
185801-186200
209587-210386
215387-216186
216587-216986
216987-217386


after which they stopped tracking USMC shipments...
Reply With Quote
  #312  
Old 08-23-2013, 9:29 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default Sept 2013 Update

well guess what time it is boys and girls? It's time for the September 2013 Rock Island Auction!

As usual I will be doing my standard auction thread with interesting stories about furious bidding, funny auction stories, and of course fantastic "holy grail" guns. This time around I plan on attending in person so I should be able to share more "color commentary" than in the past.

Full disclosure -- as usual I will not highlight guns that I am interested in until after the fact. I want to minimize competition from you fellas

Without further ado, interesting guns that stand out to me coming up for auction.

Exceptional Smith and Wesson Third Model Number Three Russian Revolver
I'm not a big Smith & Wesson or revolver guy so I don't know the history of this. But it does look stunning. Smith and Wesson third model #3 Russian Revolver in factory nickel. The combination of nickel and the nitre blue really pops! Hard to believe that something over 130 years old can be in such great condition. Auction estimate is $15,000-$20,000.



Historic Smith and Wesson .44 Double Action First Model Revolver belonging to Emmett Dalton

The Dalton Gang was jealous of the publicity and notoriety that Jesse James and his gang was getting. They decided to "one up" Jesse and pull of a simulatenous bank heist. Unfortuanately the plan was doomed from the start. The hitching post that they wanted to use was taken down for road work, so the gang put their horses down an alley (which later trapped them). In addition they decided to rob their home town of Coffeyville, and the locals immediately recognized them. As they were in the bank the locals armed themselves and proceeded to have a shoot-out with the gang. All gang members were killed except for Emmet who was shot 23 times. He survived, but was sent to prison. After being paroled he moved to Hollywood and lived off his notoriety and exploits. This gun was given by Emmet to a local doctor for services rendered. Auction estimate is $15,000-$25,000.


Wells Fargo Colt New Army Double Action Revolver
Wells fargo stuff usually has a lot of collector interest. This is a Colt revolver with documentation that it shipped to Wells Fargo. Auction estimate is $1200-$1800. I point this out because it seems to be a reasonable price for a piece of Americana.



Collection of John M Olin

There is a collection of firearms coming from the John M Olin estate. You should recognize Olin as the parent company of Winchester. The auction house is doing something interesting with this collection. They will first offer the guns up as individual lots. Then when the individual lots are done, they will offer up the entire collection. Whichever method brings about the most money will win. I'm not sure how I feel about this -- it would suck if you win on a gun you really wanted, only to "lose" because someone bought out the entire collection. Still my guess is that individuals will bring more money than as a lot.

A couple of highlights of the collection (13 firearms in all)
Winchester Gold Inlaid Model 42C - Estimate $6000-$8500


Experimental Winchester Model 1200 Slide Action 20 Gauge Shotgun. Apparently this gun was produced to test the "winchoke" system of interchangeable chokes. Auction estimate is 4000-$5500.


It will be interesting to see if the lot sells better as individual guns or as a lot. The Lot estimate for 13 guns is $35,000-$50,000.

I think I may be at the picture limit... continued next post
Reply With Quote
  #313  
Old 08-23-2013, 9:29 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

black rifles
RIA seems to be changing their order around a bit. usually black rifles are on the second day, but they moved them to the first day. It will be interesting to see if black rifles still bring in huge premiums -- my guess is that they will not as the AR market seems to be back to normal now.

Fabrique Nationale FAL
a FAL would be interesting to have in the collection. this one is pretty choice - in 99% original finish. still I'm old fashioned so prefer the wood stock variants. Auction estimate is $2500-$3750


Of course there are HK rifles, but I don't pay attention to them because of CA law. banned by name
HK91 - Auction estimate is $2500-$2500


HK93 - Auction estimate is $2250-$3000


IMI/Uzi in .45acp
This one is interesting, an Uzi but in .45acp. not something you see very often. Estimate is $1100-$1800


Barrett M821A1M - 50 cal
Anyone want a .50BMG Barrett? I do I do! oh wait, California..... Estimate is $8000-$9500.


Rare Original Colt Firearms Fully Automatic M16 with Original Colt Scope
This is a transferable original Colt fully automatic rifle in original M16 configuration. Based on the serial number we know it was the civilian version of the M16, produced on the same assembly line. Yes Yes I know, impossible for us Cali folks. Auction estimate is $16000-$22500
Reply With Quote
  #314  
Old 08-23-2013, 9:43 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

da big boys!

Seems RIA got their hands on a collection of Big Boys. All of these are designated as "destructive devices"

Swiss made Solothurn 20mm Cannon
Originally designed in Germany as an anti-tank weapon, but the Treaty of Versailles prohibited them from manufacturing in country. So Germany secretly used the Swiss Solothurn factory to manufacture these cannons as a part of their re-armament program. Effective against early light tank armor, but advances in armor stop penetration of the 20mm round. However these cannons remained effective against trucks and field guns. Auction estimate is $14,000-$25,000


And of course you have the Allied version of the anti-tank gun. "Boys" Anti-Tank Rifle. 55cal. This one is rare in that it is US Property marked. Auction estimate is $7500-$11,000.


Last of the big boys -- Finnish L-39 20MM Cannon. Estimate is $14,000-$22,500

Reply With Quote
  #315  
Old 08-23-2013, 9:44 PM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

ok off to bed, more tomorrow including my favorites - 1911s, lugers, early automatics, etc. stay tuned!
Reply With Quote
  #316  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:30 PM
Cool Custard's Avatar
Cool Custard Cool Custard is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Madera
Posts: 3,195
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Fantastic stuff beetle! Happy hunting!
__________________
Stay Low, Go Fast, Take Chances
Reply With Quote
  #317  
Old 08-24-2013, 8:17 AM
oddjob oddjob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lodi, California
Posts: 1,910
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Great Thread!!
Reply With Quote
  #318  
Old 08-24-2013, 9:06 AM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Before we go on to more gun porn, here is a story I just have to share. Most of you guys know that I like to collect 1911s. When you get into historic 1911s, the infamous "take down scratch" is something you learn to live with. In fact it is rare that you will find an old gun without this scratch.

This scratch is more commonly referred to as an "idiot scratch". However it's been pointed out to me that the term "idiot" is unfair when you are talking about a GI in a foxhole trying to reassemble a gun during war. If you scratch the gun because you don't know what you are doing in the comfort of your own home, then it's an idiot scratch. If the scratch is there and it's old and it's a wartime gun then it's a "GI scratch" or more generically a "takedown lever scratch".

ok this falls more into the idiot scratch side of things as in "YOU ARE AN IDIOT FOR SCRATCHING THIS GUN"

Two years ago I got to personally inspect this gun. It was a beautiful piece, pristine in almost all respects. 99%+. The gun belonged to the "Putnam Green" collection, a collector of legendary status known to only collect the best of the best. Here is the gun two years ago:



In fact if you read the whole thread you will know that I bid on it but did not win it because I will still going after Colt #33. The gun sold for $16,000 not including commissions.

Now what happens in the collector world is that sometimes things just circle around. someone buys something and then a few years later it shows up for auction again.

Well up for auction this time around is the same gun. however, the previous owner is an IDIOT -- as now there are idiot scratches on what USED TO BE A PRISTINE GUN. Seriously -- who does this? who buys a $16,000 gun and proceeds to put IDIOT SCRATCHES on it?

Here is the gun now


Sure the scratches are not too deep, but nevertheless they are there. Even on the slide! If you are going to buy a $16,000 gun, go buy a $600 1911 to practice on first. LOL!!!!

Auction estimate is $14,000-$22,500 so it will be interesting to see if it sells for more than $16,000. The gun is in obviously worse shape than before, but it's also been two years. This will be a good indicator if the collector market has gone up.
Reply With Quote
  #319  
Old 08-26-2013, 10:53 AM
beetle's Avatar
beetle beetle is offline
The Clip guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,296
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Sometimes a particular firearm will take a hit in terms of pricing because of a large collection hitting the market. This is the case for P38s. We had several prominent P38 collectors pass recently and their large collections are hitting the market at the same time. In fact, this onslaught of high conditioned and rare P38s is going to continue -- I just heard of another large collection being staged for the James D Julia auction in October.

The lower end P38s were probably sold off at RIA's "regional auction". What's left is the more desirable variants. For example, the last-Mauser marked SVW45 pistols. Auction estimate is $900-$1450. note this price is significantly lower than other duo-tones SVW45s I've seen come up. I think this auction estimate takes into account the temporarily market depression on P38s


I'm a sucker for accessories, so I always take an extra look at guns that come with extras. this "standard" Walther AC45 P38 comes with both the holster as well as the original Capture Papers. Auction estimate is $900-$1400



The pre-P38 "HP" series. Before the army officially adopted the P38, the Walther name was "Model HP" or Heeres Pistol (army pistol). Of course once the army officially adopted it the gun was renamed P38 or Pistole Model 1938. The HP pistols are finished to a much higher degree than wartime P38s. Auction estimate is $1600-$2500


Of course once it was adopted the markings were changed to P38, and the first run was the "Zero Series". For a P38 collector the zero series ranks up there much like first year of production 1911s do to me. of course this gun has a number of early features like an concealed extractor and rectangular firing pin. Auction estimate is $7500-$11000.
Reply With Quote
  #320  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:38 AM
ccandgc's Avatar
ccandgc ccandgc is offline
831
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterey Peninsula
Posts: 1,870
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

More excellence as always! Keep it up!! I got my catalogs the other day....geez....sucks I can't bid on anything this round....working on an Enfield 4T.
__________________
-Chad
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:41 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.