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  #241  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:14 AM
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some early results

that remington zig zag derringer I talked about sold for $3750


the revolving rifle sold for $85,000 or $20,000 over high estimate.


the colt "FU california laws" special sold for $4250. that is not the real name -- i called it that because it has an extended barrel and the regular cylinder was replaced with a flat block that holds only a single shot. (single shot, long barrel -- get it )


some collector unloaded a lifetime collection of British militaria. I had my doubts if it would bring as much as the auction house wanted -- so far my guess is turning out to be accurate with most items below the low price estimate.

12th Prince of Wales Royal Lancers Officer's Czapka. Estimate was $7000-$13,000. Sold $5000

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:34 AM..
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  #242  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:20 AM
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Scots Guards Bearskin Cap, auction estimate $1500-$2500, sold $550.


Nazi marked FN 1935 Hi Power. Sold $1800


this is a nice piece for advanced Colt collectors. An pristine Colt Sistema (argentina also adopted the 1911 design and got the rights to produce at their own factory). Sold $2000.


Oh what a difference a little marking makes. Previously I talked about the Nazi 1911. It is not up for sale yet, but I anticipate that it will sell above $6K. Here is essentially the same pistol, a Norwegian 1914, but produced before the Germans took over Norway. Sold $1300. The little waffenamt (german acceptance stamp) adds over $5K to the price!

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:35 AM..
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  #243  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:21 AM
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oh my, nice looking rifle. FN "G Series" FAL. Sold $7000

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  #244  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:26 AM
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This Uzi went for way above estimate. It's an early "demo" model with fancy case. Estimate was $1100-$1900, sold for $6,000.

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  #245  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle View Post
i think this is neat. a half scale working model of a M1914 machine gun. in the ammo cans are cloth belted .22lr! so cute! too expensive to be a toy though, auction estimate is $4K-7K

the little half scale model sold for $6000
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  #246  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:00 PM
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waiting for them to get to the 1911s. check this one out :ugh:

Colt "Rattlesnake Legacy Edition". Estimate is $950-$1300.


American Historical makes some of the ugliest pistols...some of the other masterpieces they've made



Iron cross luger

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  #247  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:35 PM
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still about an hour until they get to the modern Colt 1911s. this one might be of interest to Calguns -- I know a lot of people are looking for Series 70 Gold Cups in excellent condition. Lot #857 Estimate $1200-$1700. too late to bid direclty with RIA, if you are interested bid online through icollector.com or proxibid.com


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  #248  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:55 PM
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thanks for the update i love seeing these guns
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  #249  
Old 09-07-2012, 1:23 PM
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the ugly rattlesnake gun sold for $1600!
[img]
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  #250  
Old 09-07-2012, 1:29 PM
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I shouldn't be too hard on that rattlesnake colt, different strokes for different folks. The only lot I went after (and purchased) might be considered by some as "ugly" too.

two gun lot made up of

1) Colt Camo Companion 1911


2) Colt Custom Tactical Government 1911


I'll probably sell the Custom Tactical. I really only wanted the Camo 1911. I don't think this will appreciate much, but it's neat.

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:36 AM..
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  #251  
Old 09-07-2012, 1:32 PM
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that Series 70 gold cup national match sold for $1500 -- not bad. Figure the price of a springfield loaded target is already close, for a little more you can get a collectible.

Last edited by beetle; 09-07-2012 at 1:40 PM..
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  #252  
Old 09-07-2012, 2:25 PM
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I'm not watching the auction right now, but what was the hammer price on the ones you won?

That Camo is unique. Reminds me of Apocalypse Now.
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  #253  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:48 PM
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Hammer price on those two was $3000. I have to admit I had a bit of buyer's remorse after I won the lot. I was thinking I wanted to spend around $2400, thinking $1200 is about the going rate for Colts in our area.

However, I've had a chance to research a bit. Those two are kind of unique Colts. They only made 150 of those Camo Companions. There was only one that ever came up on gunbroker, and it was messed with (replace rear sight). It listed for $2000, but wasn't sold. However, lots of speculation and discussion on the 1911 board when the listing came up. I suspect there might be some interest in this gun over time.

The second gun is actually interesting as well. Turns out there were three levels of the "tactical package" from the Colt custom shop. This one is level 3 which includes extra fit and finishing, beveled magwell, upswept beavertail, checkered mainspring housing. Colt gives it a 2" guarantee at 25 yards. It was not cheap -- the level 3 was like $1300 in 1989. In today's dollars it's a $2000 gun.

Yes I'm reaching a bit to justify my purchase but I dont' feel too badly about it. I think I'll keep both and instead sell off a Springer or two. I think I'll turn the Custom Tactical into a shooter.
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  #254  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:49 PM
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More results!

Day 2 results.

There was nothing I wanted to bid on today. But here are some interesting results.

In terms of the most expensive thing sold today, it was a documented Winchester "One of one Thousand" rifle. Made in 1878, the "One of One Thousand" rifles represented the best that Winchester could produce at that time. Actually the name is a misnomer, as only 133 were actually made.

This one comes complete with provedence, coming from a well known collector, verified by the factory, researched by historians, etc. It also has some unique factory variations including "XXXX grade wood" (how winchester rated their Wood quality back then. the more X's the fancier the wood).

Let me know if the pics come up for you. I'm using another source because I'm too lazy to resize the humoungous pics from RIA.

Note the condition of this gun, it's not pristine and the receiver shows a lot of wear.

Sold for $360,000


Now compare this with another "One of One Thousand" rifle which sold yesterday.



The second one sold for $32,500. Why the big difference? because the second one has been mucked with, refinished and who knows what. Let that be a lesson, don't try to "fix up" old guns, it destorys the value!

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:36 AM..
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  #255  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:49 PM
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The early lever action pistol from Smith and Wesson sold for $11,000


Smith and Wesson abandoned the idea of a lever action pistol when they got the rights to a bored through cylinder from Rollin White. The group that built this lever action went on to found the Winchester Repeating Rifle company.

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  #256  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:49 PM
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This Winchester advertisement cartridge board sold for $27,500!

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:37 AM..
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  #257  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:49 PM
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The french ring gun sold for $5500

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:37 AM..
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  #258  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:50 PM
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the beautiful cased pair of derringers sold for $6500

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  #259  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:51 PM
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American Eagle Luger. These are some of the earliest Lugers, especially made for the commercial market in the US. The were imported by the Stoeger company in New York. It is estimated that about 1000 were made but very few exists today (especially in high condition.

Sold for $17,000


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  #260  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:51 PM
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If lugers interest you, one of the more interesting Lugers from a historical standpoint is the "G" date. After WW1 the Treaty of Versailles prohibited Germany from re-arming itself. We all know that under Hitler production of arms restarted. To avoid suspicion, these lugers were marked with a "G" instead of the normal date code. There is actually a earlier alphabet code, the "K" date luger but they are very rare. G dates are both interesting and somewhat affordable. This example sold for $1400.



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  #261  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:51 PM
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The experimental 9mm "ultra" Walther sold for $35,000. Conceived as an "in between" round for the Luftwaffe, who wanted something more powerful than the 9mm "kurtz" (.380 auto) but less bulky than the 9mm parabellum. Walther lost interest in this when the P38 was adopted.


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  #262  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:52 PM
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The german Drilling rifle sold for $16,000.


The Nazi high leader dagger with double chain scabbard sold for $32,500

Last edited by beetle; 09-09-2012 at 6:38 AM..
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  #263  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:52 PM
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A Nazi police PPK sold for $4750. I have one that is better, no cracks in the grip, and has the original box and accessories.

the one sold today:


Mine:

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  #264  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:53 PM
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someone got a steal on that Nazi 1911 (Norwegian 1914). This is a good price. Sold $5000



A WW2 Colt 1911a1. It sold right in the range I would expect. I've seen nicer ones at this price though. Sold $2250.


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  #265  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:55 PM
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This was one that I was going to bid on. It's a WW1 era 1911 made by the Remington UMC company. Before, during, and after WW1 Colt had a hard time keeping up with the number of pistols requested by the government. As a company, Colt had always used the same production method -- everything is made in small batches by skilled craftsmen. Indeed, the original 1911s were finished so finely that they were brilliant in the sunlight. the government had to ask Colt to tone it down on the finishing.

To get more pistols (and because the government thought they could do it better), Colt was required to supply plans for the manufacture of 1911s. The government started making 1911s at it's Springfield Armory. I have one a Springfield Armory 1911. It's not in the greatest condition, but it has that "been there, done that" look that I like. I particularly like the US eagle on the slide:




The OTHER manufacturer that the government got involved was Remington UMC. As an interesting side note, UMC stands for Union Metallic Cartridge. It was one of the earliest companies to make cartridges out of metal instead of the common paper at that time. Colt supplied drawings, but they were known to be incorrect as they did not show tolerances between parts.

Remington UMC proceed to procure 10 Colt pistols on their own and made a set of drawings from those pistols, using the average between the 10 to determine the acceptable tolerance.

Originally the government wanted 150,000 pistols, which was then upped to 500,000 pistols. The facility for manufacture was originally built to produce mosin nagant rifles for the russian government. (i thought last bit was interesting). However, a few months after production started in earnest WW1 ended. The US subsequently suspended the contract and a total of only 21,676 pistols were made.

I have a WW1 Colt and Springfield, so I wanted this one to complete the set. However, upon inspection my expert determined that there were a few things off with this pistol. The right side grip is incorrect, the grip bushing is stripped, and the grip safety has the profile of a Colt part. I decided to wait for a better example.

This one sold for $9500 which is about the right price (a little high) for a nice Remington UMC. However, with the issues on this gun I think it's too much.

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  #266  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:55 PM
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oh my, this one is nice. WW2 Trench shotguns in nice condition are rare. A lot of people ask "shotguns were used in WW2?" That's because we mostly see pictures of the european theatre, where shotguns were not common.

However, in the pacific theater shotguns were used quite heavily. They were particularly handy in jungles, cave clearings, etc. However, given the heat and humidity of the pacific most trench shotguns are in poor condition.

I have a nice Winchester Model 12 trench shotugn that I paid over high estimate at the time...


Up for auction was a Winchester Model 1897 (the immediate predecessor to the Model 12, and one of John Moses Browning's designs). This one sold for $9000, also over the high estimate. I kind of wished I picked this up to pair with the the Model 12 that I have.

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  #267  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:56 PM
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the story of the Johnson 1941 is quite interesting. Right before WW2 the US army was looking to replace it's 1903 rifle with a semi-automatic design. We all know that they had John Garand working on a new design at Springfield Armory. However, indepdent gun designer Melvin Johnson was also working on a semi-automatic rifle. His design was quite unique. Whereas the Garand uses gas to cycle the round, the Johnson uses recoil energy. It actually is a cleaner and more reliable method.

What's unique about the Johnson is that it uses a rotary feeding system that holds 10 rounds. Soldiers at the time said it looks "pregnant".

Johnson submitted the design to the army and got them to conduct a series of tests, but the army was really never interested. They were pretty much set to adopt the Garand.

Johnson persisted and eventually got the Dutch to buy a few thousand rifles. However, before he could deliver them they got invaded and occupied by Germany. At that time the Marines were short on rifles because all Garand production was being sent to the Army. They took the rifles originally meant for the dutch and used them in the pacific.
Reports are that they were pretty good, but the problem is that when a bayonet is attached it adds too much forward weight, reducing recoil enough to cause jams (because the gun uses recoil energy).

In the 50s remaining Johnsons were all sporterized and sold through the Winfield company. At that time they were cheap and slow sellers because everyone wanted a Garand.

Today Johnsons command much more than Garands, especially if they are unsporterized. This one is refinished, yet still brought in $4250.



Mine has original finish so maybe worth a little more.

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Old 09-08-2012, 8:57 PM
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the humvee sold for $32,500 or DOUBLE the high estimate. Guess someone really wanted it!


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  #269  
Old 09-08-2012, 8:57 PM
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the rest was Smith and Wesson revolvers and Colt Single Action Armys (stuff I don't really collect), so I'm not going to write about them.



Tomorrow the items I want come up. Unlike the last auction there is no "must have" item this time around -- so I'll bid on a few and we'll see what happens. You can probably guess it'll probably be some kind of 1911 or Colt Python.



More updates to come....
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Old 09-09-2012, 1:40 AM
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Wow, I just came across this thread and read page 7. This is great info and I really appreciate your work. I am going to start reading from page 1. Please keep us updated, you just got one more fan to follow the thread.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:03 PM
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whoa, crazy update on this one as posted by the president of RIA. apparently the back story is that this gun was actually consigned for auction a number of years ago. However, it was stolen from the auction house before it could go up for sale. Eventually the insurance company paid out to the owner(s) of the gun. Prior to the auction, the owner(s) had taken the gun around the various collector circuits, including winning "best of show" -- setting up the gun for a big payday.

Fast forward to recent day, the auction house gets a call from someone wanting to know what he has. Turns out it is the stolen gun! The individual said that his dad gave it to him and that "it would be worth something one day". The dad is a police officer! hmmm... some shady things going here. Well, the gun now belongs to the insurance company and partiallly to RIA because they paid the deductable. The insurance company decides to once again put it up for auction with RIA which is why it is coming up in the Sept. auction.

Interesting story right? well it gets weirder. A few weeks ago, a well known gunsmith calls up RIA and informs them that he applied the polished blue finish to the firearm, and that when he received it it was in the raw. To make things worse, it was noted 1911 author Edward Scott Meadows who comissioned him to apply the finish! So now we have a noted 1911 author and collector and RIA pointing fingers at each other. RIA is saying that Meadows had the finish applied (destroying much of the collectibility and history of the gun) and then took it on a "dog and pony" show to try and escalate the value of the gun. Others in the collecting world are pointing fingers at RIA saying they should have known better and detected that it was not a Colt finish.

some grade A drama going on right here. will be interesting to see how much this new information affects the sale price. It's still a super rare piece, but now has the dread "refinished" term associated with it.
ok this gun just sold. I have to give credit to the auction house, they explained the situation and said very clearly "NOT ORIGINAL COLT FINISH" at least five or six times including right before the bidding started.

What was the impact? Originally the gun was estimated to bring in between $75,000-$150,000. If the gun was correct I would imagine it to bring in at least $100,000.

Because of the disclosure this gun sold for $55,000. Still super rare, only 4 known to exist. But unfortunately it will be forever tainted to collectors.
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  #272  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:25 PM
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Does this add to RIA questionable practices? The 2 auctions I participated in were ok, nothing shady or weird, as well as the one time I sold a Carbine at one of their auctions last year.....after each experience, I always felt weird or just off a bit.....not really sure why.
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Old 09-09-2012, 8:16 PM
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FYI, Dennis Kroh from Empire Arms told me a great story last year about a Mauser rifle he sold off his website that turned up in a RIA, refinished and with fake Nazi SS Death Head
markings. He saw the rifle at the live auction, called his wife up to verify the serial# was the same. He immediately notified RIA. When RIA announced that it was a boosted fake, people still bid it up!!! Read up on gunboards.com with regards to WW2 era guns. Apparently there are quite a few boosted fakes that have been on the market and in circulation from auction house to auction house over the past couple of decades or more. Because of a lack of records from Germany, there is no way to 100% verify the originality of a gun, it's markings, and finish.

Buyer beware!!
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  #274  
Old 09-09-2012, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
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FYI, Dennis Kroh from Empire Arms told me a great story last year about a Mauser rifle he sold off his website that turned up in a RIA, refinished and with fake Nazi SS Death Head
markings. He saw the rifle at the live auction, called his wife up to verify the serial# was the same. He immediately notified RIA. When RIA announced that it was a boosted fake, people still bid it up!!! Read up on gunboards.com with regards to WW2 era guns. Apparently there are quite a few boosted fakes that have been on the market and in circulation from auction house to auction house over the past couple of decades or more. Because of a lack of records from Germany, there is no way to 100% verify the originality of a gun, it's markings, and finish.

Buyer beware!!
Agree, it's always buyer beware on any historical/collectible gun purchase. That's why I always pay extra to have an expert examine the 1911s I'm interested in buying. It's not cheap, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than getting burned with a fake.
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Old 09-09-2012, 8:26 PM
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I ended the weekend with three lots (total of four guns, one lot was a two gun set).

1) Colt Camo Companion
Actually this guy may turn out to be my sleeper. The more I research it the more rare I find out it is. Only 150 made.


2) Colt Custom Tactical, Level 3. I am going to turn this gun into my shooter.


3) Exceptional Colt WWI Brushed Blue 1911. Made in 1918 before Colt went to the "Black Army" process. Verified to be correct and original by Scott Gahimer.


4) Excellent Springfield Armory National Match. This is a national match pistol made by US government armorers for service competition teams. These were made in the 50s and 60s out of government stock. A USGI 1911 pistol was taken from inventory and then completely overhauled for competition use. I have kind of a mini 1911 match pistol collection going. The only one I'm missing is a pre-war Colt national match. They had one this auction but it didn't get a good health report from the expert.

The collection as it stands:
1915 NRA Springfield Service Pistol
1930s Pre-War National Match (missing I still need this)
1950s USGI Springfield National Match (new -- what I just bought)
1960s Colt National Match
1970s Colt Series 70 National Match Gold Cup
1980s Colt Series 80 National Match Gold Cup
2000s Colt Gold Cup Trophy
2011 Colt Gold Cup National Match

My new Springfield Armory Military National Match


There is a pre-war national match coming up for auction at the James D Julia auction next month. I may try to pick one up there.

I ended the auction with "only" these four, but I'm happy with these, all are in high condition. There were no "must haves" for me this time so I didn't go crazy on any one particular item.
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  #276  
Old 09-09-2012, 9:51 PM
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beemaze beemaze is offline
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#3 is beautiful. Have been looking for a decent one for a while. Many I have seen are parts guns. Great score, and I'm sure you paid a pretty penny, but well worth it!
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  #277  
Old 09-09-2012, 9:57 PM
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Just posting up to say thanks for putting this together. This thread is one of the best reads on the 'net.
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  #278  
Old 09-10-2012, 9:09 AM
me109g4 me109g4 is offline
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Thanks Beetle, I enjoy these reports, especially on the Walthers.
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  #279  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:25 AM
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Thanks again Beetle. All your posts and diligence are appreciated. Keep it up.
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  #280  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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So much cool stuff.

The family and I stopped at the Rock Island Arsenal last year on a cross-country road trip. Awesome museum. Kids also enjoyed climbing on some of the tanks/artillery pieces that were displayed nearby as well.

Wish I was there...with a wad of cash!
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