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  #201  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:41 PM
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Remington Zig-Zag Derringer

This was Remington's first handgun chambered for metallic cartridges. The design was patented by Dr. William Elliiot, a dentist from New York. He had many dentist inventions before turning his mind to firearms. On Aug 17, 1858 he submitted the basic design for what eventually would become known as Elliot's "Zig Zag" revolver. Each cylinder was cut with a unique zig zag groove which first pushed the barrel forward to clear the firing pin, rotated the barrel, and then move the barrel back into place for the next shot.

Elliot approached Remington to manufacture his pistols of which nearly 1,000 were made. In 1861 Dr. Elliot improved the design of the pistol (eliminating the zig zag groove) and renamed the gun "Elliot's Pociket Revolver"

Auction estimate is $2500-$3400


The improved version without the zig-zag groove. Auction Estimate is $700-$1100


I believe, but am not positive that the Elliot-Remington was the first to use the Zig-Zag design. This was copied by Mauser and Webley (to some degree).

Mauser Zig Zag Revolver


Webley Automatic Revolver
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  #202  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:42 PM
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Smith and Wesson Revolving Rfile Model 320

If it worked for pistols, why not rifles? Conceived as a way to decrease the delay between shots, the revolving rifle never really caught on. The issue was that catridges of the day were not completely sealed, nor did all of the powder burn completely. Inevitably powder remnants would work their way into the revolver mechanism. Hot gasses from a fired shot would set off this accumulated powder, which in turn ignited all of the other rounds in the cylinder. this was known as a chainfire.

Doesnt this problem exist in pistol revolvers of the day? Yes, but with pistols your hands are behind the cylinder. But since it was a rifle it required one hand to be gripped at the forend, and thus a chainfire would end up shooting bullets and other metallic fragments into your arm.

About 977 of these revolving rifles were produced, but only a handful were nickel plated from the factory. This one is expected to bring between $45,000-$65,000.

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  #203  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:43 PM
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Smith and Wesson Lever Action Magazine Pistol

In the mid 1800s Smith and Wesson was experimenting with different methods to take advantage of metallic catridges. One such example is this level action pistol. However, around the same time Rollin White approach smith and wesson about using his newly patented bored through cylinder. (if you recall from the last auction report Rollin White was a Colt employee who cut up two Colt Single Action Army's and invented the idea of a bored through cylinder. Colt dismissed the idea).

Smith and Wesson decided to focus on Rollin White's invention and spun off the group designing lever action guns. That group became known as the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company, and later became the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The product -- the famous lever action rifle.

Not too many details are known about these Smith and Wesson lever action pistols. Some experts estimate the total produced at less than 500.

Auction estimate is $25,000-$45,000
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  #204  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:44 PM
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Smith and Wesson No 3

By the mid 1800s it became clear that metallic catridges were the wave of the future and the Army set about looking for a replacement for it's black powder revolvers. Colt, after dismissing Rollin White's invention, was prevented from developing a bored through clinder revolver due to his patent. Thus the Smith and Wesson Model 3 revolver was adopted as the first metallic catrdige revolver into US service.

Smith and Wesson had a time advantage over Colt but in 1875 the US Ordnance Board requested Smith and Wesson make changes to it's weapon to incorporate the design improvements of Major George Schofield. In addition, the board requested that Smith and Wesson modify the revolvers to accept .45 Colt ammunition that was already in use.

Smith and Wesson decided to develop their own .45 round, which became known as the .45 Schofield or .45 Smith and Wesson. The issue was that there was plenty of .45 Colt in the field, and it could not be used in the Model 3. However, by this time the White patent had expired so Colt entered the market. The Colt revolver could fire both .45 Colt as well as .45 Smith and Wesson. Thus even though the Model 3 was the official revolver, the Colt was sold in larger numbers and was more popular amongst the troops.

This Model 3 is estimated to bring bewteen $18,000-$27,500
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  #205  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:47 PM
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Look! Colt is so smart they knew they had to do something about California laws way back in the 1940s!

Just kidding! This special was manufactured for the national matches at Camp Perry. The pistol was modified by removing the 6 shot cylinder and replacing it with a flat block that held a single shot. In addition the barrel was lengthened to 10". (single shot, long barrel -- SSE - get it? )

Estimate is $3000-$4500
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  #206  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:48 PM
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Webley and Scott Model 1913 Semi-Automatic Pistol

The invention of smokless powder set off a arms race around the world to develop and adopt new weapons, including side arms. This included the development of semi-automatic pistols which held more cartridges than revolvers. In germany they adopted the P08 Luger. In the US we adopted the 1911. In fact, John Browning's design was adopted by a number of countires including Norway, Argentina, and others.

In Britain the royal small arms committee also set about looking for a new sidearm and looked to the English firm Webley and Scott. Webley in fact had submitted an automatic revolver in the US trails (see the zig zag design a few posts up). However, it was clear that revolvers were on their way out. Webley set about to design a new semi-automatic weapon. In came up with a design that the committee tested against the Browning 1911 design. what's interesting is that the comittee selected the webley design as the winner not once, but twice over the span of many years.

The Webley pistol has some unique features as requested by the Navy. For example, it has magazine cutoff allowing you to self-load single roads from the top while keeping the magazine in reserve. (not sure how this would be useful).

The British used this in both wars. A total of about 10,000 were made.

Estimated price: $1,800-$2750
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  #207  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:48 PM
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Tippman Arms half scale M1919

This is a neat toy. It's a half scale semi-automatic M1919 that fires .22LR. It comes with a wooden crate, ammo bins, and even cloth belts that hold .22LR. I did some research on this, and unfortunately due to CA laws I would have to cut the belts to be 10 rounds or less. Bummer. It's also kinda expensive to be a toy.

Estimate at $4000-$6,500
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  #208  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:49 PM
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Colt Z40

Kind of a weird one. In the late 90s Colt and CZ collaborated on a gun. Well collobarated might be a strong word. Since that time some of the people involved in the deal have stepped forth. According to them, Colt basically told CZ to "kinda make it look like a 1911" with all of the engineering and production to be done by CZ.

The Colt Z40 was a double action only gun chambered in .40 S&W. It was only produced for 1 year before Colt walked away from the deal (as they were facing financial difficulties). about 800 marked Colt CZ40s were made

After the deal fell apart CZ used up the stock on hand and made a few hundred more, but now marked as the CZ40B. They were liquidated through CDNN.

Auctioned off as packagle deal along with a Colt Rail Gun. Estimated price is $1200-$2000 which might be a bargain if you can get it at the low end of the estimate (since Rail runs are already in the $1000 range).

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  #209  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:50 PM
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no special signficance or history other than I think they look nice. Gotta love those nitre-blue accents.

Cased pair of embelleshed Remington Derringers. Estimate: $3250-$5500
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  #210  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:51 PM
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Le Petit Protector Ring Gun.

19th century French ring gun. Marked "Le Petit Protector". 6 shot hand rotated pinfire.

Estimate: $5000-$8000


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  #211  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:51 PM
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Experimental 9mm "Ultra" Walther

9mm "Ultra" was developed. Kind of a in between round, more powerful than the 9mm "Kurz" (short) but less poweful than the 9mm Parabellum.

Similar in design to a PPK, but due to the increased pressure of the new round it required side mounted locking lugs on the barrel itself. In fact it was probably one of the first pistols to use a rotating barrel (similar designs are now found in the Beretta PX4 storm). Another unqiue feature is a "slide accelerator". Due to the low mass of the slide, a spring assist mechanism was developed to propel the slide forward, which also rotated and locked the barrel back in place.

From a design standpoint you can start to see some of the cues of the P38. Around the time this gun was starting to get sorted out Walther also introduced the HP (what eventually would become the P38) and lost interest in this project.

The only one known to exist. Auction estimate is $30,000 to $50,000


slide assist mechanism
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  #212  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:53 PM
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SA High Leaders Honor Dagger

Conceived as a award specificly for SA high leaders. The blade has the gold motto "Alles fur Deutschalnd" (everything for Germany). With this new award was the addition to a chain suspension scabbard. Each link is silver plated with a gold swastika.

Note: I've been accused of posting too much Nazi stuff through PMs on this site. If anything I'm furthest thing away from a Nazi symphatizer. I post this Nazi dagger because from it is interesting from a collecting standpoint and I think it will be bring big dollars. I personally do not collect Nazi memorabilia with the exception of guns.

Auction Estimate: $40,000 - $60,000

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  #213  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:56 PM
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you think those Beta C-mags you see on Sons of Guns are a new invention? pffft -- they were rocking snail drum magazines way back in 1918. The Luger Snail Drum Magazine from WWI.

Auction estimate is $950-$1400


lugers look pretty badass with the snail drum and shoulder stock
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  #214  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:57 PM
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Nazi marked M1914 pistol

I have one of these -- essentially a Nazi 1911. happened when germany occupied Norway (which had previously adopted the 1911 pistol). Only about 935 of these were marked with the waffenamt.


Auction Estimate: $5500-$8500
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  #215  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:58 PM
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Walther Nazi Police PPK

I'm interested to see how this one does. It's described as Excellent with 99% of the original Walther blue finish with hairline crack on both sides of the grip. with spare magazine.

Three years ago I bought a PPK in similar condition, no crack in grip, and with original box and accessories. Spare mag still in sealed wrapper -- (my avatar). Will be interesting to see where this one goes....

Auction Estimate: $5000-$8000
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  #216  
Old 07-29-2012, 6:59 PM
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... more to come
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  #217  
Old 07-29-2012, 7:49 PM
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Thanks for posting these, Beetle - I've enjoyed all the highlights you've pointed out so far.

I will note that the Regional auction had some pretty damn brisk buying -- I watched live (to track a few auctions I had bid on by absentee) and was amazed at some of the prices -- in some cases seemed high even before the 'buyer's premium.' (not to mention, in our case, transfer fees, sales tax, and overnight shipping).

I'm looking forward to the September auction in any case -- keep the callouts coming!!

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  #218  
Old 07-29-2012, 8:33 PM
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Great story. Thanks for sharing. Silver lining..... you ended up with some nice Colts and memories of the chase!
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  #219  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:45 PM
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let's move on to the 1911s...

a very nice WWI "black army" 1911. Made by Colt in 1918 and delivered to Springfield Armory as a part of a 3800 lot shipment. In excellent condition with about 98% of the brush blue finish.

a quick bit of background on this -- prior to the war Colt used a high polish blue finish. Some of you have heard me refer to this finish as "black chrome". It's a beautiful finish, but highly reflective in nature. The army requested Colt find a new finish as a highly reflective gun is probably not the best thing to have in a battle.

Colt responded by skipping the polishing step. Thus with the base metal in a rough state, the result was a duller matte finish.

However, what we now know is that the this duller "black army" finish is much less durable. Without the final polishing step, surface impurities remained. As a result, pistols from this era often show flaking of the finish.

Anyways, this one is still in very nice shape without the flaking finish we typically see on pistols from this timeframe.

Auction estiate: $6,000-$9,000

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  #220  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:48 PM
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WWII Colt

Made in 1943. Excellent condition with 98% finish remaining. Auction estimate is $1600-$2500. This is a pretty accurate estimate. If you can pick it up at the low part of the estimate range it would be a good price for an original/correct WW2 Colt.

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  #221  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:49 PM
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Inland T3 Infrared Carbine

Developed at the end of WW2, the M2 infrared scope uses a emitter on the bottom of the handguard and a larger receiver at the top. To accomodate this new scope, the M1 carbine was modified. This modified version was named the T3. It's estimated that only about 1000 were made, but the majority were destroyed by the government.

Up for auction is scope/carbine combination with the correct T3 receiver. Estimate is $19,000-$25,000.
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  #222  
Old 08-01-2012, 7:50 PM
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Anyone want to buy a original humvee?

auction estimate is $9500-$16000
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  #223  
Old 08-01-2012, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle View Post
WWII Colt

Made in 1943. Excellent condition with 98% finish remaining. Auction estimate is $1600-$2500. This is a pretty accurate estimate. If you can pick it up at the low part of the estimate range it would be a good price for an original/correct WW2 Colt.

right...there... that's what I've always wanted...

If only I could afford it :cry:
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  #224  
Old 08-06-2012, 1:35 AM
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Beetle
I just found this thread, very enjoyable. Thanks for for all the info and time you have spent on this thread.
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  #225  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:34 PM
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amazing to think they came up with this in that time frame. light is operated by your hand completing the circuit in the grip.

The luger night pistol sold for $160,000
This gun was part of Hitler's personal security detail right? Wonder what kind of lumens it had?
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  #226  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS View Post
"1"
Good catch!
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  #227  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:36 PM
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just 2 more weeks -- a few more interesting guns...

i'll be watching this one. Lot 450, Late War Mauser "SVW" Code P38.

late in the war Mauser changed it's code from BYF to SVW. Nobody really knows why except perhaps the germans thought that the allies had figured out all of the codes.

However, by the time the factory got around to changing the stamps the allies were right at the doorstep of the Mauser factory in Obendorf. Thus only a very small quantity of german marked (waffenamt) SVW45 P38s exist. After the allies captured the factory the french continued manufacturing SVW45 P38s, but now for french army use. The germany waffenamt was replaced with a french star.

From "Shotgun News" on the P38
Quote:
There are two basic types of "SVW45" P.38 pistols: "German military issue" handguns and those made by the French after the war had ended and they occupied the Mauser factory. These latter pistols, called "French issue" will be discussed in Part II of this article, which will cover P.38 pistols manufactured after World War II....Estimated production of all German military issue SVW45 P.38 pistols: 70,740 with 23,000 issued and 47,740 rejected. These are extremely desirable variants and sell for $2,500 to $3,750.
The article is a couple of years old. The auction estimate for this gun is $3000-$4500 (with holster). You can see how collectible guns tend to go up in price.


This one is mine. I picked it up a few years ago for much less than the auction estimate.
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  #228  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:38 PM
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this next one is interesting. Grat, Emmett, and Bob Dalton were brothers who worked as Deputy Marshals in Kansas. Somewhere along the line they turned to the "dark side" and started robbing trains. Along with Bill Power and Dick Broadwell, they made up the "Dalton Gang". Around this time Jessie James was becoming notorious due to his criminal exploits.

The gang wanted to pull off a heist that would top Jessie's exploits. To take it to the next level, the gang ordered a set of 10 of the fanciest engraved Colts which would be used to pull off their planned heist. To make history, the gang planned to rob two banks at the same time -- something they felt sure would top whatever Jessie had done.

The plan was doomed from the start. The hitching post they planned to use was removed due to road work. Instead the gang tied up their horses in a alleyway, which was their undoing. In addition, the town they were robbing was where the Daltons grew up -- coffeyville. Even though they were in disguise, the Daltons were immediately recognized. As they split up and entered the banks, the towns people armed themselves and took up firing positions. As the Daltons tried to make their getaway, they were trapped in the alley way and a gun fight ensued. when the smoke cleared all but Emmett were dead. Emmett was captured with 23 gun shot wounds. He served in prison until 1907 and died in 1937.

Up for auction is are two pistols -- one documented to be taken off of Bob Dalton, and one known to be part of the 10 gun shipment (but not known who used it).

The aftermath of the botched robbery.


This one is documented as belonging to Bob Dalton. Auction estimate is $350,000 to $500,000.


This second one is known to be 1 of the 10 sent to the gang, but not known who carried it. Auction estimate is $125,000 to $175,000. Good example of how much provenence can add to a collector gun.


It will be interesting to see if a single collector buys these to unite them.
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  #229  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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Props from Band of Brothers. These were used by the character "Edward Tipper", the guy who could imitate voices. He pretended to be Major Horton in the field and ordered Sobel to cut the barb wire (letting the cows loose).

The gun is a non-firing plastic/rubber replica of a Thompson.

Estimate is $1000-$1500


M42 jacket and Trousers wore by the character Buck Compton. Also included in this lot are a couple of scripts and notes.

Estimate $1500-$2000
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  #230  
Old 08-26-2012, 8:42 AM
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I just spent most of my morning reading through your thread.... thank you for posting. Epic, simply epic.
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  #231  
Old 08-26-2012, 9:20 AM
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A local collector/dealer ended up with all of the "real" Dick Winters uniforms when he passed away. I got to take a look at them, pretty interesting stuff
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  #232  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:38 PM
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I saw those Dalton Colt SAA's in person at the Reno show, they are fantasic looking.
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  #233  
Old 08-30-2012, 10:58 AM
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Guess what time it is boys and girls? It's almost time for the September Premiere auction!

Welcome to yet another installment of Beetle's auction commentary.

Here is a teaser:

This Colt 1910 model was developed to compete against Fabrique Nationale in European markets. Colt worked with Winchester to develop a new catridge, the 9.8mm. Several thousand rounds of 9.8mm was manufactured for this experimental pistol.

Colt took the model of 1910 .45ACP pistol (predecessor to the 1911) and scaled it down. It has the same finish as all Colts of that era -- high polish blue with nitre blue small parts.

The frame itself is stamped "RAD 40" or Research and Development. The lot comes with two Winchester 9.8mm catridges.

This pistol won the 1st place award from the 2007 Colt Collector's Association show.

Only five examples of this pistol were manufactured. Four of them are in public museums which makes this the only one available for private collections.

Auction estimate is $160,000-$250,000.



More auction call outs, history, and stories to come.....
'

whoa, crazy update on this one as posted by the president of RIA. apparently the back story is that this gun was actually consigned for auction a number of years ago. However, it was stolen from the auction house before it could go up for sale. Eventually the insurance company paid out to the owner(s) of the gun. Prior to the auction, the owner(s) had taken the gun around the various collector circuits, including winning "best of show" -- setting up the gun for a big payday.

Fast forward to recent day, the auction house gets a call from someone wanting to know what he has. Turns out it is the stolen gun! The individual said that his dad gave it to him and that "it would be worth something one day". The dad is a police officer! hmmm... some shady things going here. Well, the gun now belongs to the insurance company and partiallly to RIA because they paid the deductable. The insurance company decides to once again put it up for auction with RIA which is why it is coming up in the Sept. auction.

Interesting story right? well it gets weirder. A few weeks ago, a well known gunsmith calls up RIA and informs them that he applied the polished blue finish to the firearm, and that when he received it it was in the raw. To make things worse, it was noted 1911 author Edward Scott Meadows who comissioned him to apply the finish! So now we have a noted 1911 author and collector and RIA pointing fingers at each other. RIA is saying that Meadows had the finish applied (destroying much of the collectibility and history of the gun) and then took it on a "dog and pony" show to try and escalate the value of the gun. Others in the collecting world are pointing fingers at RIA saying they should have known better and detected that it was not a Colt finish.

some grade A drama going on right here. will be interesting to see how much this new information affects the sale price. It's still a super rare piece, but now has the dread "refinished" term associated with it.
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  #234  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:14 AM
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Very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing!
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  #235  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle View Post
'

whoa, crazy update on this one as posted by the president of RIA. apparently the back story is that this gun was actually consigned for auction a number of years ago. However, it was stolen from the auction house before it could go up for sale. Eventually the insurance company paid out to the owner(s) of the gun. Prior to the auction, the owner(s) had taken the gun around the various collector circuits, including winning "best of show" -- setting up the gun for a big payday.

Fast forward to recent day, the auction house gets a call from someone wanting to know what he has. Turns out it is the stolen gun! The individual said that his dad gave it to him and that "it would be worth something one day". The dad is a police officer! hmmm... some shady things going here. Well, the gun now belongs to the insurance company and partiallly to RIA because they paid the deductable. The insurance company decides to once again put it up for auction with RIA which is why it is coming up in the Sept. auction.

Interesting story right? well it gets weirder. A few weeks ago, a well known gunsmith calls up RIA and informs them that he applied the polished blue finish to the firearm, and that when he received it it was in the raw. To make things worse, it was noted 1911 author Edward Scott Meadows who comissioned him to apply the finish! So now we have a noted 1911 author and collector and RIA pointing fingers at each other. RIA is saying that Meadows had the finish applied (destroying much of the collectibility and history of the gun) and then took it on a "dog and pony" show to try and escalate the value of the gun. Others in the collecting world are pointing fingers at RIA saying they should have known better and detected that it was not a Colt finish.

some grade A drama going on right here. will be interesting to see how much this new information affects the sale price. It's still a super rare piece, but now has the dread "refinished" term associated with it.
Well, at least it looks nice. And it'll go for cheaper AND have an interesting story behind it.
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  #236  
Old 09-06-2012, 9:10 PM
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German Drilling rifles have always brought high dollars at this auction. Drilling rifles are three barreled rifles -- a double 12 gauge and a single 9.3X74R. Drilling rifles were included as standard equipment on Luftwaffe bombers stationed in North Africa and the Meditarranean.

The reason why they have always brought big dollars is because they were finished to a very high degree. J.P. Sauer and Sohns was a manufacturer of high end rifles before the war. So when they got the contract to make survival drillings they did so the only way they knew how, with beautiful craftsmanship. Colored case hardened receivers, the best woods, beautiful bluing, etc.

Up for auction is a complete German Survival Drilling issued to the Luftwaffe, complete with capture papers. I've seen better examples, but this one is nice in that it has the capture papers. Estimated price is $14,000-$22,500.



So if a Drilling is a three barreled rifle, how about a Vierling? It's a four barreled rifle. two 16 gauge shotgun (for hunting fowl), a .22 for hunting small game, and a 8X57R for big game, man stopper.

Who needs more than 1 rifle when you have a vierling?

Auction estimate is $12,000-$16,000

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  #237  
Old 09-06-2012, 9:13 PM
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Once you've collected one 1911 from each manufacturer, it's time to start collecting the variations. For example during the WW2 period, there were 5 inspectors who oversaw operations at Colt:

Charles S Reed (CSR Mark): 1940 production
Robert Sears (RS): 1941 Production
Waldemar Broberg (WB): 1942 Production
Guy H Drewy (GHD): 1943-end of war (majority of colt pistols)
John S. Begley (JSB): civilian employee of the ordnance dept

Advanced collectors will start to look for examples from each inspector. A CSR Colt may bring 2-3X what a GHD Colt will, simply because there are much less guns marked with CSR.

The rarest of them all are JSB marked Colts. In fact, some have guessed that there are less JSB colts than real Singers. a JSB marked colt would bring big dollars as well.

up for auction is a CSR colt in average condition. Even with the lack of finish it is still estimated to bring between $4500-$7000.


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Old 09-06-2012, 9:13 PM
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i think this is neat. a half scale working model of a M1914 machine gun. in the ammo cans are cloth belted .22lr! so cute! too expensive to be a toy though, auction estimate is $4K-7K

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  #239  
Old 09-06-2012, 9:15 PM
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....and here we go! Auction starts tomorrow morning. Stay tuned for stories, auction updates, and results over the weekend. I'm only going for one lot tomorrow, nothing significant, just something I think is kind of neat. The stuff I want is not until sunday.
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  #240  
Old 09-07-2012, 2:42 AM
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Woohoo!

Man the barrel on the vierling is pretty thin for the mauser round. But I guess it is a "survival rifle". Very cool, thanks for continuing to update.
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