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  #1  
Old 09-07-2011, 9:03 PM
eric90503 eric90503 is offline
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Default School me on my FMP build!

Was on the fence about putting together my FMP build for years. Finally pulled the trigger on starting this project. Sick of seeing the darn thing in the white!

So far I have a "drilled" Enfield G3 parts kit, an FMP receiver with trunnion. I've spent my day off today trying to educate myself on making my trigger pack compliant to Fed laws. I want to use a Navy lower but cant find any info on how to modify my trigger group to drop into a Navy housing.

Next dilemma is whether to find a used FMP barrel or go with HKParts CHF nitrided barrels? http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-91...-US-9p1136.htm Not too familiar with the HK world.

Any words of wisdom would be kindly appreciated!


btw, now I remember why I've procrastinated on starting the project. HK parts are pricey! Lol...
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2011, 10:05 PM
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Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric90503 View Post
Was on the fence about putting together my FMP build for years. Finally pulled the trigger on starting this project. Sick of seeing the darn thing in the white!

So far I have a "drilled" Enfield G3 parts kit, an FMP receiver with trunnion. I've spent my day off today trying to educate myself on making my trigger pack compliant to Fed laws. I want to use a Navy lower but cant find any info on how to modify my trigger group to drop into a Navy housing.

Next dilemma is whether to find a used FMP barrel or go with HKParts CHF nitrided barrels? http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-91...-US-9p1136.htm Not too familiar with the HK world.

Any words of wisdom would be kindly appreciated!


btw, now I remember why I've procrastinated on starting the project. HK parts are pricey! Lol...
Eric,

For the FCG conversion, see the URLs below.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688219
Both of these URLs provide extensive, if overlapping information.

I'm going to try my hand on a CETME trigger frame soon, but haven't done it yet myself. I ended up buying a PTR91 trigger pack for the AG-3F2 build, which is quite nice and counts as four 922r parts, though less satisfying than actually doing it yourself.

Do yourself a favor and dispose of the three unnecessary naughty parts contained within the trigger pack. What you are left with is the hammer spring w/guide, hammer, trigger and sear, next is cutting the pin that supported said naughty parts per BATF and described more specifically in the URLs above.

For the barrel question, if you have enough US parts already, locate a used Portuguese barrel, if you can still find one. The Pakistani barrels are just as good and far more common. Since your serials aren't going to match anyway, you can pretty much use whatever you want. The HKParts barrel's are sourced from both new HK imports from Germany and RCM contract barrels made in the US. The RCM barrels are cheaper and arguable just as good.

There is also Bravo5 if you want a heavier profile, or a shorter or longer length (Bravo5 makes about a dozen different G3 barrels), whereas RCM sells one profile and length (a 17.7" OEM barrel) directly on their site and make a couple different OEM profile/OEM lengths for suppliers like HKParts.net, Apex, etc.

The cheapest RCM barrel I've seen so far is on Apex at $175.00 and is already nitrided. The Bravo 5 barrels are well made, have the correct number of flutes (12), a tighter twist (1:10" vs. 1:12" for standard military barrels) and even their lighter barrels are still thicker under the handguards than RCM and HK OEM barrels, but the Bravo5 barrels are sold in the white, so you'll have to get them nitrided on your own. MMI Trutec is my pick for doing this , Isonite QPQ process - single barrel cost is $60, but you could negotiate with Rodney (Arizona location) to get the price down a bit.

Your best/quickest option for a new US made RCM barrel is Apex unless you luck out on a good used Portuguese barrel or the even rarer never-issued barrels. Finding a $60-$70 barrel is getting tough now, mostly I see those prices for the remaining CETME barrels (which you could also use, no prob). CETME barrels are interchangeable, same profile and usually 17.7" long, which matches the chart for standard PMP/HK contract barrels.

Good luck,

R
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2011, 10:23 PM
eric90503 eric90503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
Eric,

For the FCG conversion, see the URLs below.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688219
Both of these URLs provide extensive, if overlapping information.

I'm going to try my hand on a CETME trigger frame soon, but haven't done it yet myself. I ended up buying a PTR91 trigger pack for the AG-3F2 build, which is quite nice and counts as four 922r parts, though less satisfying than actually doing it yourself.

Do yourself a favor and dispose of the three unnecessary naughty parts contained within the trigger pack. What you are left with is the hammer spring w/guide, hammer, trigger and sear, next is cutting the pin that supported said naughty parts per BATF and described more specifically in the URLs above.

For the barrel question, if you have enough US parts already, locate a used Portuguese barrel, if you can still find one. The Pakistani barrels are just as good and far more common. Since your serials aren't going to match anyway, you can pretty much use whatever you want. The HKParts barrel's are sourced from both new HK imports from Germany and RCM contract barrels made in the US. The RCM barrels are cheaper and arguable just as good.

There is also Bravo5 if you want a heavier profile, or a shorter or longer length (Bravo5 makes about a dozen different G3 barrels), whereas RCM sells one profile and length (a 17.7" OEM barrel) directly on their site and make a couple different OEM profile/OEM lengths for suppliers like HKParts.net, Apex, etc.

The cheapest RCM barrel I've seen so far is on Apex at $175.00 and is already nitrided. The Bravo 5 barrels are well made, have the correct number of flutes (12), a tighter twist (1:10" vs. 1:12" for standard military barrels) and even their lighter barrels are still thicker under the handguards than RCM and HK OEM barrels, but the Bravo5 barrels are sold in the white, so you'll have to get them nitrided on your own. MMI Trutec is my pick for doing this , Isonite QPQ process - single barrel cost is $60, but you could negotiate with Rodney (Arizona location) to get the price down a bit.

Your best/quickest option for a new US made RCM barrel is Apex unless you luck out on a good used Portuguese barrel or the even rarer never-issued barrels. Finding a $60-$70 barrel is getting tough now, mostly I see those prices for the remaining CETME barrels (which you could also use, no prob). CETME barrels are interchangeable, same profile and usually 17.7" long, which matches the chart for standard PMP/HK contract barrels.

Good luck,

R
Thanks Richard. That is a wealth of info you have there, much appreciated.

I picked up the British kit through Apex and opted to separate the kit without the RCM barrel. I spoke with RCM and they confirmed that the barrels with the kits are not CHF and not nitrided. Apex purchased these barrels from RCM at least 5yrs ago. RCM said the HKparts CHF barrels were the new ones to get.

I'll have to check Bravo5. Cant believe pirate4x4 has a write-up, awesome.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2011, 10:30 PM
eric90503 eric90503 is offline
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Originally Posted by fredieusa View Post
Lots of ways to skin a cat .. here is another ..

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=274354

Yea, HK are expensive. Also check here somewhere us CalGunners have a HK Build Part or two every now and then.
holy crap! thats a monster write-up. Thanks Richard and Fredie! guess I won't be asleep till tomorrow morning, lol...
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2011, 11:04 PM
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Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric90503 View Post
Thanks Richard. That is a wealth of info you have there, much appreciated.

I picked up the British kit through Apex and opted to separate the kit without the RCM barrel. I spoke with RCM and they confirmed that the barrels with the kits are not CHF and not nitrided. Apex purchased these barrels from RCM at least 5yrs ago. RCM said the HKparts CHF barrels were the new ones to get.

I'll have to check Bravo5. Cant believe pirate4x4 has a write-up, awesome.
Eric,

You just saved me the expense of returning the barrel or having to get it nitrided for another $50.00. When I asked Apex if that barrel was nitrided, the gal on the phone said they were. Oh well. RCM sells a nitrided OEM 17.7" barrel for about the same as the RCM barrel on HKParts.net at $187, I think I also saw a stainless RCM barrel on HKParts.net that was about $10.00 more.

By the way, I discovered a cheap alternative to the 2 stage heavy recoil buffer while browsing HKPro's forum. Ghilliebear2000 makes them for about $62.00 shipped. They are longer than the standard buffer and about as long as the HK factory 2 stage buffer, but his contain 3 springs. Because of the length you'll have to make some mods to an A3 stock, but that's true of the HK factor 2 stage buffer as well. MSG90 and HK20E stocks supposedly fit these without modification since they already use the 2 stage heavy buffer or the really long single stage buffer the later 20E uses. HKParts.net sells the heavy buffer for over $150. The reduction in felt recoil (more "spreading the recoil impulse over time" - more accurate) is supposedly 45%, or said another way, 45% slower.

The other choice that doesn't require stock mods is the one Bill Springfield makes (Triggerworks). He does G3 trigger pull/pre-travel work as well and added his enhanced buffer a few years ago. His buffer fits the standard A2/A3 stock without modification and is just a bit longer than a standard buffer. The piston is redesigned and the spring lighter so it can travel further before bottoming out. He listed the price at $38, with shipping I think it was $45 anywhere in the lower 48.

I just sent payment for two of the slightly more expensive "Ghilliebuffers" and if they are as easy to fit as the instructions provided by PM, this is the way to go for a soft shooting rifle.

Happy building,

R
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  #6  
Old 09-08-2011, 8:41 AM
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ptoguy2002 ptoguy2002 is offline
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One option if you are watching how much you are spending, and just throwing this out there, is that you could sell the FMP receiver for enough to buy a PTR receiver, a nice new barrel, and all the US compliance parts needed.

The best (proper) barrel to use for that FMP receiver would be one of the virgin FMP barrels, but as mentioned, those don't come up for sale often. Second best would be one of the RCM barrels. Finding a used FMP barrel is easy enough if you can wait, they come up on gunbroker pretty regularly, but a lot of times are part of a whole kit. One thing that you should consider too on the barrel is that the RCM counts as 1 US made part. You need to buy a barrel anyway to replace the drilled one, might as well use it for a compliance part to avoid needing to replace another part you already have in your kit.

An upgraded buffer is worth it too.

ETA: A commonly overlooked 922r part for G3 are mag floor plates if you already have mags. That may get pricey depending on how many mags need to be done though. Or if you need to buy 10 rounders anyway, buy the thermold 10 round mags, and kill two birds with one stone, as they count for 3 parts anyway. They don't cost much more than other people's cut down 10 rounders, or 10/20 mags that people make.
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Last edited by ptoguy2002; 09-08-2011 at 8:58 AM..
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  #7  
Old 09-08-2011, 12:56 PM
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Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
One option if you are watching how much you are spending, and just throwing this out there, is that you could sell the FMP receiver for enough to buy a PTR receiver, a nice new barrel, and all the US compliance parts needed.

The best (proper) barrel to use for that FMP receiver would be one of the virgin FMP barrels, but as mentioned, those don't come up for sale often. Second best would be one of the RCM barrels. Finding a used FMP barrel is easy enough if you can wait, they come up on gunbroker pretty regularly, but a lot of times are part of a whole kit. One thing that you should consider too on the barrel is that the RCM counts as 1 US made part. You need to buy a barrel anyway to replace the drilled one, might as well use it for a compliance part to avoid needing to replace another part you already have in your kit.

An upgraded buffer is worth it too.

ETA: A commonly overlooked 922r part for G3 are mag floor plates if you already have mags. That may get pricey depending on how many mags need to be done though. Or if you need to buy 10 rounders anyway, buy the thermold 10 round mags, and kill two birds with one stone, as they count for 3 parts anyway. They don't cost much more than other people's cut down 10 rounders, or 10/20 mags that people make.
Ptoguy,

I agree with most of your pronouncements, except the use of magazine parts for 922r compliance. It's a cheaper way to go of course, but I'm always leery of requiring US mag parts especially when non-US mags are just too cheap to pass up (CTD has the aluminum type for $0.97 each right now!).

Another "mostly" cheap part is the cocking handle, followed by the hammer/sear/trigger, which aren't too bad individually. Unfortunately a whole US trigger pack with frame, giving four compliance parts, is usually $150-$175, about the cost of a new barrel.

We only need seven, so for the CETME build I did the minimum and ended up with the following:

(1) Barrel (RCM, Bravo5, PTR91)
(1) Muzzle attachment (IGF brake)
(1) Receiver (PTR91 flat - I don't like the GW flat at all) - finished receiver if you prefer
(1) Cocking handle
(3) FCG
* Hammer
* Sear
* Trigger

That's enough parts for 922r, just more expensive than using mag parts for the final count. Foreign bits are still all over the place and you can use whatever mags you want (including the steel and aluminum mags that are still under $2.50 ea!).

R
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  #8  
Old 09-08-2011, 1:55 PM
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ptoguy2002 ptoguy2002 is offline
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But you can't get $1.00 G3 mags in California......
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  #9  
Old 09-08-2011, 3:46 PM
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Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
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Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
But you can't get $1.00 G3 mags in California......
The "Rebuild kitd" cost a bit more but then you can modify the body to prevent more than 10 rounds. This is where the rebuild kit sellers buy their mag parts from, which in turn is passed on to those in Cali.

R
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