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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
Link to the RECAP Docket.
8/31/2011: Motion for Preliminary injunction filed in District Court: http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.o...port-of-PI.pdf 8/30/2011: Refiled complaint New case # Case 1:11-cv-00528-ACK -KSC NEWS RELEASE Hawaii Defense Foundation P.O. Box #1798 Aiea, Hawaii 96817 (808) 664-1827 Fax: 808-748-3376 For Immediate Release: 8/23/2011 Honolulu, HI – The Hawaii Defense Foundation’s founding director and president, Christopher Baker, has filed a lawsuit against Honolulu Chief of Police Louis Kealoha, the Honolulu Police Department, the City and County of Honolulu, the State of Hawaii, and Governor Neil Abercrombie in connection with civil rights violations of the Second and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution. The complaint filed in the United States District Court for the District of Hawaii by attorneys Richard Holcomb, Alan Beck, and Kevin O’Grady alleges that Hawaii’s license to carry statute and various other firearm regulations are unconstitutional. State law mandates that citizens may be provided licenses to carry only in “exceptional circumstance” or “where a need or urgency has been sufficiently indicated,” all at the discretion of the county’s Chief of Police. The complaint asserts that this language violates the Second Amendment, which secures the right of all responsible, law-abiding citizens to bear arms for the purpose of self-defense. Additionally, the complaint also addresses the use of non-lethal tools for self-defense such as electric guns, which are banned in in Hawaii. “The Second Amendment protects the right to self-defense. Everyday around the islands good people are robbed, assaulted, raped, or in the worst cases murdered. It’s simply a matter of physics, the Police can’t be everywhere to stop criminals from committing violent acts. We must be allowed to carry the tools that give us a chance to protect ourselves from harm,” says Chris Baker. “We want criminals to have to think about the consequences of attacking someone,” he continued, “but right now, nothing serves as a deterrent to them - the odds are in their favor.” Hawaii Defense Foundation (www.TheHDF.org) is a domestic not-for-profit corporation based in Honolulu, Hawaii. The Foundation serves the community by providing various services, such as: legal defense of civil rights, educational courses on firearm safety, self-defense training, and life saving techniques – such as first aid and CPR. The Foundation has many supporters and members across the State of Hawaii. If you would like to show your support or are looking for additional information please contact the Foundation’s Secretary, Erica Castillo, at (808) 664-1827 or info(at)hawaiidefensefoundation.org. ### Copy of the complaint can be found: http://ia600709.us.archive.org/0/ite....98653.1.0.pdf Copy of the press release: http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.o...ss-Release.pdf
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Lawyer, but not your lawyer. Posts aren't legal advice. Last edited by Funtimes; 09-16-2011 at 4:35 AM.. |
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Hopefully this will get some traction. I will be looking forward to this
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Hauoli Makahiki Hou ------- |
#4
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I was waiting for this!
Just bought my daughter a car over there for school because of what i saw in public transportation and the vagrants in waikiki. When she moves off campus the first think i will do is gift her a handgun and have her take it back with her. |
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Good luck with this, Funtimes. Y'all deserve a good win over there.
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Rest in Peace - Andrew Breitbart. A true student of Alinsky. 90% of winning is simply showing up. "Let's not lose sight of how much we reduced our carbon footprint by telecommuting this protest." 383green NRA Benefactor Member |
#8
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taper, careful with getting her a gun to take with her, know the laws, might be bad for her to take a gun. they are worse than cali for their gun laws and registration stuff from what i understand of an LEO moving there.
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#9
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AFTER the win! We know the islands well.
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Great, good luck guys!
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Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound. -- L. Neil Smith |
#11
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Check this out. Makes you feel better about California Gun Laws. A little.
First you have to get a permit to acquire, then you have to register the gun after you get it. Acquiring Firearms in Hawaii http://www.honolulupd.org/info/gun134-2.htm Here's just a portion of the process. You will need the following documentation prior to completing the application. The application must be completed at the Firearms Section.
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Better Way to Search CalGuns - https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...78:pzxbzjzh1zk CA Bill Search - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov California Rifle and Pistol Association - http://crpa.org/ Sacramento County Sheriff Concealed Carry Info - Search 'Concealed Weapons Permit Information Sacramento' Second Amendment Foundation - http://www.saf.org Animated US Map Showing Progress of Concealed Carry Laws 1986 to 2021 http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php |
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Not to nitpick, but.
I read through the brief and it reads well.
My concerns are that I didn't see comments from the following: Heller MacDonald Elzell Nordyke Peruta Richards. I also didn't see a 9th amendment cause of action. Certainly not being able to protect oneself would cause someone to restrict their movements. Of course there will be motion wars. Since we now have a law firm that filed a lawsuit in Hawaii, perhaps we may want to create our own lawsuit regarding carry for non residents. I realize we have Gray's lawsuit going in Denver, but a Hawaii Lawsuit would be in the 9th circuit and potentially could give us a "Split Circuit". We already know the plays by the other side in Gray's case, so we could take those out in a Hawaii case. Many people travel to Hawaii on vacation, not being able to protect yourself while on "Vacation" is bs. Hawaii also has many part time residents. Hawaii is the only state in the 9th circuit with bans on any type of carry, a Federal Judge in Hawaii wouldn't have the "unloaded carry option" to weasel out of a CCW case. Nicki |
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These guys do have an advantage.
HI has a direct copy of the 2nd in their state constitution. Arguing that it means something different than what the US RKBA means, and which has been incorporated, is going to be an uphill battle for the antis.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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Nicki,
Reduce your tempo just touch. Unless you think we (CGF, SAF, et al) haven't a strategy or have overlooked something as glaring as interstate travel - I think our comments here and elsewhere should summarily put any fears for either to rest - we'll make the appropriate play at the appropriate time. -Brandon Quote:
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
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I would love to go plinking in paradise.
Good luck with the lawsuit. I hope that it creates a good decision that we can apply against Californian laws. I will look to see if I can support HDF after I get done renewing my current memberships. |
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I don't know if this is good or bad. Is the NRA or SAF involved with this? Could this be a Gorski type situation? Hawaii was already harmed by a pro se case which effectively canceled their constitutional RKBA provision.
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"Weakness is provocative." Senator Tom Cotton, president in 2024 Victoria "Tori" Rose Smith's life mattered. |
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From the excerpt posted by CaliforniaLiberal I'd say that Hawaii's laws are most vulnerable to a challenge of the US citizenship requirement for even purchasing a gun. That one is clearly in direct violation of Heller and McDonald.
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#21
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I did a quick scan of the filing and it seemed pretty well written and to make some good points. Not as much fun to read as Gura and a few others but my quick scan did not show any stupidity. But IANAL and could be missing a lot - especially since it was just a scan. |
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Well, how about the background check checking "arrest history".
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
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It appears to me that Hawaii has such strict laws, challenging them won't be much of a problem. As Hawaii 2A groups get up to speed on all of this they will eventually knock down that wall brick by brick.
The people of Hawaii are of a different mindset than the rest of us from the main land. Many of the general population there really see no need for guns and embrace their history of island life. Some would have preferred to not be a part of the USA. The Hawaii Defense foundation will, LIKE CGF, need to move in ways that are politically convincing to the population/government/courts. Along with SCOTUS rulings the org. will bring 2A rights to Hawaii. Finances will also be a hurdle for them as there just arent that many gun owners in the state. There never really has been on the island, unlike the mainland. |
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This is going to be interesting to see play out. How Hawaii tries to get around the state Constitution is going to be fun to watch. Heck, the whole nation has incorporation of an individual right.
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Look, let's take this for what it is.
It's not specifically SAF or NRA "supported", but let's keep in perspective what we're dealing with here. 9th Circuit already has two carry cases up there. This case will be the "Hawaii Cleanup Case", and I believe it will likely be stayed with every other case once SCOTUS picks up a carry case. |
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
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They are not Gorski-wannabe's. They seem competent....
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I was talking in general, and not even in particular in re. to HI.
Glad to hear your opinion that they're solid though.
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
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The cases that go before USSC/circuits will be the binding precedents that will guide the lower courts on follow-on cases such as this one. While the case is not a joint venture of any sort, some of us did have an opportunity to discuss the issues with the plaintiff and review some of the work prior to its filing. I, for one, certainly appreciate that sort of trust and cooperation between synergistic interests. Here's to the best of success on this case! -Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#34
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http://www.honolulupd.org/info/gun134-3.htm Out-of-State Registration There is no 14-day waiting period for Out-of-State Registration. Once the firearm arrives in the state you have 3 calendar days, (72 Hours), to bring it in to the Honolulu Police Department Firearms Section.
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Better Way to Search CalGuns - https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...78:pzxbzjzh1zk CA Bill Search - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov California Rifle and Pistol Association - http://crpa.org/ Sacramento County Sheriff Concealed Carry Info - Search 'Concealed Weapons Permit Information Sacramento' Second Amendment Foundation - http://www.saf.org Animated US Map Showing Progress of Concealed Carry Laws 1986 to 2021 http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php |
#35
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I don't see the point for hawaii. Some of those Samoans are so big...if you were ever attacked by one, anything concealable would be moot. You'd need something in 30.06 or something that fires deershot at least.
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#37
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Funny you should mention that. American Samoa completely bans handgun possession in home still.
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REALLY! It should also be noted that the biggest employer there is a popular tuna company owned by no other than Nancy Pelosis husband.
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I was stationed on Oahu for six years. If people don't think it is the Republic of Hawaii, they are fooling themselves. They hate the mainland and anything to do with it, including the laws. And Honolulu PD is one of the most jacked up departments I've ever seen.
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Former political prisoner who escaped on 9-24-23. |
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