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  #1  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:47 AM
mcgill mcgill is offline
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Default How does FFL Handle 4473 and DROS?

FFL getting ready to do first transfer. Transfer is from dealer (me) to buyer.

I need your help please.

Iíve read and re-read the forum, ATF guide, 4473 instructions, DROS instructions, and Calguns wiki, etc. Iím looking for simple step for how a California FFL completes a transfer. I know PTP and other transfers have exceptions, etc.
Would someone please help? Do I have this right?
I'm sure I may have missed something.

Assume buyer is non-exempt and new CA legal firearm entry is already in A&D. One handgun or long gun and not NFA.

1) Buyer completes his/her portion of 4473 electronically
2) FFL completes remainder of 4473
3) FFL prints 4473 and staples
Question: Does it have to be printed on colored paper?
4) Buyer signs and dates 4473 (16 and 17)
5) FFL sets 4473 aside
6) FFL completes electronic DROS and electronically submit
7) DROS, if accepted, will send back completed form on the screen with DROS number
8) FFL Print DROS
9) FFL enter 4473 (21a, 21b)
10) Wait 240 hours and until buyer returns; daily check DROS for denial
Question: How do I fill-in 21c? CA DOJ told me they would only send negative information. So if I do not receive a denial before 240 hours, do I check the Proceed box?
11) Assuming no denial, buyer returns.
12) Buyer signs and dates 4473 (24 and 25)
13) Buyer signs, dates, and provides right thumb print (provided s/he has right thumb) on DROS
14) FFL signs and dates DROS
15) FFL collects firearm payment and sales tax.
Question: Do you collect DROS and FFL transfer fee at pick-up or up front?
16) FFL follows all rules on locks, HSC, and demos, etc
17) FFL gives buyer firearm and copy of DROS
18) FFL makes A&D entry and files 4473 and DROS

What did I get wrong or miss?
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:32 PM
dirtyJ's Avatar
dirtyJ dirtyJ is offline
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Don't think it has to be printed on colored paper, the paper 4473s now are all white.

Probably don't have to check every day for the denials, DOJ will call you a million times until you pick up to let you know, but checking DROS every day near the end of the day is always a good practice.

21c will be completed at the time of delay, denial, or after 240 hours, which ever comes first.

During the two DOJ audits I've been through, both auditors, (Bob and Dana), said that the DROS form gets signed and filled out, excepting the delivery date and time, at the time of the DROS being submitted. Ditto thumbprint. A left thumbprint is acceptable if the person doesn't have a right thumb, or has a jacked up right thumbprint, (staph infections can be bad.)

I always collected all the payment and fees up front. If they get denied, there's no way you're getting the money back, so they shouldn't either. Refunds are handled however you see fit, but after reading some things and thinking about it, I think if I ever work in the gun industry again, I'm going to follow Wes's advice. You tried to buy a gun and got denied for past BS? So sorry no refund.

I always gave the buyer a copy of the DROS right after they signed it, usually tried to write the delivery date and time on top as well to help them keep things straight.

I'm sure some of the other guys will chime in here soon, kemasa, 10%, ke6, halifax, etc .

Last edited by dirtyJ; 08-24-2011 at 3:26 PM.. Reason: my bad dawg, forgot you in the list :)
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:46 PM
halifax's Avatar
halifax halifax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgill View Post
FFL getting ready to do first transfer. Transfer is from dealer (me) to buyer.

I need your help please.

I’ve read and re-read the forum, ATF guide, 4473 instructions, DROS instructions, and Calguns wiki, etc. I’m looking for simple step for how a California FFL completes a transfer. I know PTP and other transfers have exceptions, etc.
Would someone please help? Do I have this right?
I'm sure I may have missed something.

Assume buyer is non-exempt and new CA legal firearm entry is already in A&D. One handgun or long gun and not NFA.

1) Buyer completes his/her portion of 4473 electronically
2) FFL completes remainder of 4473
3) FFL prints 4473 and staples
Question: Does it have to be printed on colored paper? NO
4) Buyer signs and dates 4473 (16 and 17)
5) FFL sets 4473 aside
6) FFL completes electronic DROS and electronically submit
7) DROS, if accepted, will send back completed form on the screen with DROS number
8) FFL Print DROS
Buyer signs and puts thumbprint on back
FFL signs and fills in his part including COE and phone number
9) FFL enter 4473 (21a, 21b)
10) Wait 240 hours and until buyer returns; daily check DROS for denial
Question: How do I fill-in 21c? CA DOJ told me they would only send negative information. So if I do not receive a denial before 240 hours, do I check the Proceed box? YES
11) Assuming no denial, buyer returns.
12) Buyer signs and dates 4473 (24 and 25)
13) Buyer signs, dates, and provides right thumb print (provided s/he has right thumb) on DROS
14) FFL signs and dates DROS FFL fills in pickup date and time
15) FFL collects firearm payment and sales tax. I DO THAT ON THE DAY OF THE SALE
Question: Do you collect DROS and FFL transfer fee at pick-up or up front? UP FRONT SINCE DROS FEE IS NOT RECUPERABLE
16) FFL follows all rules on locks, HSC, and demos, etc
17) FFL gives buyer firearm and copy of DROS
FFL completes 4473
18) FFL makes A&D entry and files 4473 and DROS

What did I get wrong or miss?
Becoming an FFL in CA
Carry On and Good Luck
__________________
Jim



Last edited by halifax; 08-24-2011 at 1:20 PM..
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2011, 9:04 PM
Santa Cruz Armory's Avatar
Santa Cruz Armory Santa Cruz Armory is offline
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Mcgill~ I hope you don't mind... I modified this to fit my needs too.

Here's what I did:

Firearm
Transfer Outline


Confirm buyer is non-exempt and new CA legal firearm entry is already in A&D.

1) Buyer completes his/her portion of 4473 electronically
2) FFL completes remainder of 4473
3) FFL prints 4473 and staples
4) Buyer signs and dates 4473 (16 and 17)
5) FFL sets 4473 aside
6) FFL completes electronic DROS and electronically submit
7) DROS, if accepted, will send back completed form on the screen with DROS number
8) FFL Print DROS
9) Buyer signs and puts thumbprint on back of DROS form
10) FFL signs and fills in his part of DROS including COE and phone number
11) FFL enter DROS info on 4473 (21a, 21b)
12) FFL collects firearm payment, DROS fee and sales tax
13) FFL provides pickup date and time on DROS
14) Wait 10 days/240 hours and/or until buyer returns; check DROS for denial
15) FFL fills-in 21c. Check the Proceed box. DOJ will only contact DROS is denied or delayed
16) Assuming no denial; Buyer signs and dates 4473 (24 and 25)
17) FFL follows all rules on locks/ safe affidavit, HSC, and safe handling demo
18) FFL gives buyer firearm and copy of DROS
19) FFL completes 4473 26-30b. Notes in 30c that lock is provided with firearm and serial # of lock
20) FFL makes A&D entry and files 4473 and DROS
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2011, 9:06 PM
mcgill mcgill is offline
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I appreciate all of the quick feedback. Thanks for updating the outline too. This makes the basic transfer steps very clear. I have an ATF contact, but not a CA DOJ one. I could not find a CA explanation of how the NICS related to the DROS and back to the 4473. I even called CA DOJ and must not have been too clear, as he refered me to the FBI; which California FFLs don't directly use. Is there any CA DOJ document like the ATF reference guide?
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2011, 9:09 PM
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ZirconJohn ZirconJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
Becoming an FFL in CA
Carry On and Good Luck
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2011, 2:39 AM
halifax's Avatar
halifax halifax is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgill View Post
...
I could not find a CA explanation of how the NICS related to the DROS and back to the 4473.
...
DOJ handles the NICS check. You only need to check the "Proceed", "Denied", "Cancelled", or "Delayed" box in 21c. If "Delayed" also do 21d.

Quote:
...
Is there any CA DOJ document like the ATF reference guide?
...
For DROS entries, about the closest you'll come to that is the DROS System User Manual
__________________
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2011, 9:40 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Default

BTW, white is a color :-).

I give a copy of the DROS at the start of the paperwork and collect at least $25 (for the DROS). I don't use the e4473 as I don't want to pay for the paper (especially for the instructions) nor is my setup easy for a customer to use my computer. I sign my copy of the DROS at the start, the only thing remaining is the delivery time.

The 4473 is not setup for each state, so the proceed box is checked when the waiting period is up and the DROS system is checked. In reality, there is never a response, so nothing should be checked, but the BATF gets annoyed with that view.

Since a PPT firearm has to be delivered to the buyer, the seller or the police, it is different, but with other firearms I don't care if I get all the money upfront since if they don't pay, I get a nice gift. I just need enough to make it worth it to me.
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Net-FFL list maintainer.

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