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  #1  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:32 PM
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Default FrontSight Private Training - Worth It?

So as per usual, I have received an email from Dr. Piazza himself this time he is offering up some private training for the 1 person + 4 other people. While I have done a few classes out there (Diamond Level member myself already), not sure if its worth the $$$ for private training out there.

Has anyone experienced anything with FS on private training?

Thanks in advance for the feedback all!
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2016, 1:59 PM
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It's only worth it as long as you feel it is
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Old 01-10-2016, 2:05 PM
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It's only worth it as long as you feel it is
I think this is the key. I know people that have done it and really find it effective. Depending on your skill level, you can get through a 4-day class in a day. If you are struggling to DG a class, you can tune-up with some a private class and either pass the skills test during the private class or by following the private class with a 4-day or skillbuilder.

Things like shooting on the move are hard to do in conventional classes but pretty easy in a private class.

Also, there are people selling private class certificates that you can pickup depending on what you are looking for.
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Old 01-10-2016, 2:29 PM
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Thanks to both for the quick replies.

I guess my other concern is quality of instructor (I've me both great and just ok) and ability to book these (they told me on the phone it can be hard at times due to demand).

Thanks again!
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Old 01-10-2016, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ace_ventura View Post
Thanks to both for the quick replies.

I guess my other concern is quality of instructor (I've me both great and just ok) and ability to book these (they told me on the phone it can be hard at times due to demand).

Thanks again!
I know my friends were satisfied in both cases with their instructor and the progress they made. I don't know how much control you have on that and no information on the ease of scheduling.
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Old 01-10-2016, 3:53 PM
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I need to brush up on my Weaver. The last century is calling me, so I should sign up.
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Old 01-10-2016, 4:16 PM
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I need to brush up on my Weaver. The last century is calling me, so I should sign up.
hi Co Th G
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2016, 4:53 PM
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hi Co Th G
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2016, 6:06 PM
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How much is the private training?
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2016, 6:41 PM
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Here is where it will be worth it. If you have taken practical rifle or tactical shotgun already, sign up for it with Kevin Cress as your instructor. Come with a ton of Ammo (literally a ton!) and say to him "I'm not interested in doing any of the test stuff, hook me up and teach me to really run my gun! He will do what you want as it is your time and dime. Shoot n move, no problem. Transition from rifle/shotgun to handgun, no problem. He'll have fun doing it too.
But if your goal is to DG the test, he'll just do the test over and over again---boring!
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2016, 7:00 PM
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Here is where it will be worth it. If you have taken practical rifle or tactical shotgun already, sign up for it with Kevin Cress as your instructor. Come with a ton of Ammo (literally a ton!) and say to him "I'm not interested in doing any of the test stuff, hook me up and teach me to really run my gun! He will do what you want as it is your time and dime. Shoot n move, no problem. Transition from rifle/shotgun to handgun, no problem. He'll have fun doing it too.
But if your goal is to DG the test, he'll just do the test over and over again---boring!
That would be awesome. Not sure I could make it through an 8 hour "adventure" with Kevin but that would be awesome. Can you request a specific instructor like that?
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Old 01-10-2016, 7:03 PM
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How much is the private training?
I think they have an upgrade to your membership (higher memberships) that allows for ongoing private training (you and 4 friends?) for a few thousand dollars. I don't know the specific deal.

People also are selling certificates for 1-day of private training for 1-on-1 training for a few hundred dollars depending on the deal you can strike.
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2016, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
I think they have an upgrade to your membership (higher memberships) that allows for ongoing private training (you and 4 friends?) for a few thousand dollars. I don't know the specific deal.

People also are selling certificates for 1-day of private training for 1-on-1 training for a few hundred dollars depending on the deal you can strike.
Okay, that doesn't sound like a good deal. Because it's still the same curriculum from the same instructors.

I like to think of a school or instructor as a book of wisdom. Better to try and read many books of wisdom than the same one over and over, that way you can pick what works for you.
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2016, 8:54 PM
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Okay, that doesn't sound like a good deal. Because it's still the same curriculum from the same instructors.

I like to think of a school or instructor as a book of wisdom. Better to try and read many books of wisdom than the same one over and over, that way you can pick what works for you.
Agreed, train with a variety of trainers. I have learned a great deal from good trainers as well as bad trainers. A bad trainer can teach you a great deal of information. -just don't get into analysis paralysis selecting the "perfect" class. It is a journey.
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2016, 9:14 PM
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He'll be back.
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  #16  
Old 01-10-2016, 9:17 PM
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He'll be back.
Yes he will. Good sport I guess.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2016, 6:03 AM
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That would be awesome. Not sure I could make it through an 8 hour "adventure" with Kevin but that would be awesome. Can you request a specific instructor like that?
From my talk with Kevin, it sounds like you can.
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:44 AM
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I don't know about FS but I know with a private class with me you get the following benefits:

*You know who you are getting; snapshots of my qualifications are right on my website.
*Operational experience
*4.5 successful years as a commercial trainer. Public reviews.
*I'm local to the LA area, pick the closest range to you: Angeles, Burro or Raahagues.
*With a group of four or more the private group rate is the same as my regularly scheduled classes. $125 - $140/4 hour/per student class depending on which range.
*With my four hour time blocks you still have half the day to carry out your business.
*Directly available for follow on questions and opinions thereafter long term.
*No need for lodging. Save $$$
*Significantly shorter drive/less gas. Save $$$
*Shorter and more efficient time management; we can hit fast forward if you got it.
*Curriculum is just a guide, every class and shooter is different. The class is adjusted as such.
*Shorter time block = less ammo expended. No need to set aside 1000 rounds
*GSW and casualty evacuation plan ALWAYS.
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Last edited by Stan08; 01-11-2016 at 1:45 PM..
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  #19  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Stan08 View Post
I don't know about FS but I know a with a private class with me you get the following benefits:

*You know who you are getting; snapshots of my qualifications are right on my website.
*Operational experience
*4.5 successful years as a commercial trainer. Public reviews.
*I'm local to the LA area, pick the closest range to you: Angeles, Burro or Raahagues.
*With a group of four or more the private group rate is the same as my regularly scheduled classes. $125 - $140/4 hour class depending on which range.
*With my four hour time blocks you still have half the day to carry out your business.
*Directly available for follow on questions and opinions thereafter long term.
*No need for lodging. Save $$$
*Significantly shorter drive/less gas. Save $$$
*Shorter and more efficient time management; we can hit fast forward if you got it.
*Curriculum is just a guide, every class and shooter is different. The class is adjusted as such.
*Shorter time block = less ammo expended. No need to set aside 1000 rounds
*GSW and casualty evacuation plan ALWAYS.
This is your website: http://www.stcrispian.com/ ?
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Old 01-11-2016, 1:44 PM
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This is your website: http://www.stcrispian.com/ ?
Yes http://www.stcrispian.com
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Old 01-11-2016, 3:57 PM
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anyone have a private cert for sale please pm me with a price
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Old 01-11-2016, 4:46 PM
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Private training certs here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252201820501...84.m1555.l2649

Blue certs here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252218209331...84.m1555.l2649
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Old 01-11-2016, 8:49 PM
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Good luck with those prices.
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Old 01-12-2016, 2:06 AM
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Where is the air-sickness bag?
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Old 01-12-2016, 7:18 AM
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Good luck with those prices.
How much do you expect to pay for a full day of professional 1 on 1 training? Especially give we are working on giving burger flippers $15/hour.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:36 PM
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How much do you expect to pay for a full day of professional 1 on 1 training? Especially give we are working on giving burger flippers $15/hour.
Bob Vogel gives private training to 2 people at his range in Ohio for $600 a day. It's in the middle of nowhere, but so is Pahrump, NV. Bob's arguably one of the top 3 shooters in the world. Any USPSA A class or IDPA Expert will almost certainly be a better shooter than a FS instructor, works out of a range close to you, and probably won't be more than $100 for a few hours.

But if we can be honest, spending that kind of money for 1 on 1 training at Front Sight is kinda like ordering a steak at Denny's. Denny's is convenient and low priced and can often make sense for something like pancakes or a BLT. But if you really want a good steak, you should go elsewhere and pay more.
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Old 01-12-2016, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Bob Vogel gives private training to 2 people at his range in Ohio for $600 a day. It's in the middle of nowhere, but so is Pahrump, NV. Bob's arguably one of the top 3 shooters in the world. Any USPSA A class or IDPA Expert will almost certainly be a better shooter than a FS instructor, works out of a range close to you, and probably won't be more than $100 for a few hours.

But if we can be honest, spending that kind of money for 1 on 1 training at Front Sight is kinda like ordering a steak at Denny's. Denny's is convenient and low priced and can often make sense for something like pancakes or a BLT. But if you really want a good steak, you should go elsewhere and pay more.
Thanks for the perspective. I guess it depends on what you are trying to work on, especially if you are working to try and pass a specific FS skills test. I know people that used their 1-on-1 training to tune up the day before a challenging class for them so no additional burden as far as expenses other than another night in a Pahrump hotel ($60) and a few meals.

Also, it is important to realize that FS is not just a handgun school so you could chose to train with a variety of firearms (including fully automatic), separately or in combination.

Finally, I am not sure I need the top shooter as my instructor, I need a top instructor. They don't always go together but your point is well taken.
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Last edited by AAShooter; 01-12-2016 at 3:18 PM..
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Old 01-12-2016, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Bob Vogel gives private training to 2 people at his range in Ohio for $600 a day. It's in the middle of nowhere, but so is Pahrump, NV. Bob's arguably one of the top 3 shooters in the world. Any USPSA A class or IDPA Expert will almost certainly be a better shooter than a FS instructor, works out of a range close to you, and probably won't be more than $100 for a few hours.

But if we can be honest, spending that kind of money for 1 on 1 training at Front Sight is kinda like ordering a steak at Denny's. Denny's is convenient and low priced and can often make sense for something like pancakes or a BLT. But if you really want a good steak, you should go elsewhere and pay more.
Thought others might be interested: http://www.vogeldynamics.com/training/
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Old 01-13-2016, 2:13 AM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
But if we can be honest, spending that kind of money for 1 on 1 training at Front Sight is kinda like ordering a steak at Denny's. Denny's is convenient and low priced and can often make sense for something like pancakes or a BLT. But if you really want a good steak, you should go elsewhere and pay more.
This is a fantastic post. Thank you.
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Old 01-13-2016, 5:52 PM
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This weekend:

(ASR-ENA) Pistol 101: 17 January 2016 @ 8:00 – 12:30pm $125
(ASR-ENA) Pistol 202: 17 January 2016 @ 1:00 – 5:00pm $125
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:21 PM
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Thanks all for the great feedback. There are some really great points here.

While I agree with the Dennys analogy (quite smart), the one thing I really do like about FS (also don't like) is their very prescribed training. They can take someone with no experience and put them on target and being able to proficiently handle a gun within 2-4 days. Pretty amazing that they can do this consistently over and over again with thousands of students.

I have two reasons for wanting to do the 1:1 training.

#1 is being able to brush up on some skills and do some refinement. Considering you have to be a Range Master to teach these, they are not a jr person with no training experience.

#2 is being able to DG a course so I can move onto some of the more advanced courses. The way I figure it, would be a good way to knock out some courses and get a DG faster than taking the course 2X.

Still in the air though as there are some great points here and really appreciate the feedback.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ace_ventura View Post
Thanks all for the great feedback. There are some really great points here.

While I agree with the Dennys analogy (quite smart), the one thing I really do like about FS (also don't like) is their very prescribed training. They can take someone with no experience and put them on target and being able to proficiently handle a gun within 2-4 days. Pretty amazing that they can do this consistently over and over again with thousands of students.

I have two reasons for wanting to do the 1:1 training.

#1 is being able to brush up on some skills and do some refinement. Considering you have to be a Range Master to teach these, they are not a jr person with no training experience.

#2 is being able to DG a course so I can move onto some of the more advanced courses. The way I figure it, would be a good way to knock out some courses and get a DG faster than taking the course 2X.

Still in the air though as there are some great points here and really appreciate the feedback.
If you can knock out a DG through the private training and save having to take a 2- or 4-day class, you have probably saved the cost of the private training.
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2016, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Bob Vogel gives private training to 2 people at his range in Ohio for $600 a day. It's in the middle of nowhere, but so is Pahrump, NV. Bob's arguably one of the top 3 shooters in the world. .
Though OP will still learn a lot, but I think Bob Vogel will be a good match if OP is seeking training to step up his game competition wise.
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:10 AM
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Though OP will still learn a lot, but I think Bob Vogel will be a good match if OP is seeking training to step up his game competition wise.
Bob teaches classes geared for competition and for LE/Mil applications.

He was a cop for 10 years, and a SWAT officer and instructor for his department.

Bob is teaching classes in the Bay Area and LA area this year.

Here he is shooting his Ohio PD qualification course. In half the time and x5 the distance.

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Old 01-15-2016, 12:01 PM
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Bob teaches classes geared for competition and for LE/Mil applications.

He was a cop for 10 years, and a SWAT officer and instructor for his department.

Bob is teaching classes in the Bay Area and LA area this year.

Here he is shooting his Ohio PD qualification course. In half the time and x5 the distance.

Your video made me chuckle. This is what many people think is the firearms proficiency of the average police officer. Good video.
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:58 PM
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A 6 second Failure To Stop at 3 yards. What is even the point to having that standard on a police qual? I guess to ensure the officer is not asleep.
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Old 01-15-2016, 3:44 PM
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A 6 second Failure To Stop at 3 yards. What is even the point to having that standard on a police qual? I guess to ensure the officer is not asleep.
It seems like some police quals are pretty lax.
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Old 01-17-2016, 3:59 PM
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So as per usual, I have received an email from Dr. Piazza himself this time he is offering up some private training for the 1 person + 4 other people. While I have done a few classes out there (Diamond Level member myself already), not sure if its worth the $$$ for private training out there.

Has anyone experienced anything with FS on private training?

Thanks in advance for the feedback all!
Don't know. But I am going to find out this summer.
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