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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2011, 3:03 PM
theduece theduece is offline
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Default remington 870 or weatherby pa-08

Opinions please.


On one hand I have wanted an 870 for years and really should've bought one a looong time ago.

Now on the other hand the 870's dont seem to be what they were a few...errr ok 14+ years ago. But now the PA-08 has caught my eye, It is real purdy.

Anybody actually have real world experience with both of these?



btw I will probably use it for clays and to teach others(they killed my SxS )

I do not want or need this gun to be tacticool, so parts to make it such are a non issue.
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2011, 3:11 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is online now
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How about a used 870. An older gun with a wood stock ought to give you a lot of bang for the buck and have lots of bangs left in it.
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2011, 3:30 PM
theduece theduece is offline
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true and honestly if go used with this it will probably be an old wingmaster.

but between the price of used versus new.....its almost not worth it
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2011, 3:52 PM
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Sort of like getting an old all metal Ruger 10/22 versus a new plastic one for the same price. It's up to you whether you want the old stuff with the original parts or the new stuff with plastic parts. Don't worry about the possible tight chamber/fail to extract problems with the new guns, the chambers can be loosened up with either ~500 shots or a light polish job. I am also debating (new/used) for an 870 for my son.

I went the old/used way with an 1100 at a really good price. Even though there were rust spots on the receiver (typical ones on the bottom where you hold it), they cleaned up easily enough and the thing shoots trap and skeet like a champ. I haven't shot skeet in 26 years and its like coming back to an old friend.
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2011, 4:21 PM
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You guys give the impression that you know the 870's. Please tell us which parts are plastic in the 870 Express. This seems to be the reason you are telling the OP buy an old Wingmaster. Also, what other parts are different. Since you clearly recommend the used ones I assume you know the answer.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2011, 4:53 PM
theduece theduece is offline
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Well I am the OP I don't think or know which if any parts are plastic on an 870. I don't know if the problems I've read about are a design change or if now there are 2 models an 870 express the $300 option and an 870 wingmaster? or if it is all just interweb hype and I should go get whatever.
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2011, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
You guys give the impression that you know the 870's. Please tell us which parts are plastic in the 870 Express. This seems to be the reason you are telling the OP buy an old Wingmaster. Also, what other parts are different. Since you clearly recommend the used ones I assume you know the answer.
I thought the main difference was fit and finish. Doesn't the trigger group contain some plastic vs the older 870? Of course the flexi-tab is nice.

I hear a lot about the need to polish the chambers in some of the 870 expresses of late.

aippi, do you have any reliabiltity concerns regarding the Express vs. the Wingmaster vs. the Police Magnum as far as a defensive shotgun? I have a Vang'd 870 Express.
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2011, 5:07 PM
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As my avatar speaks... I'm a Weatherby dork and would not touch that pa-08 with a 10 foot pole! it's caca.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2011, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
As my avatar speaks... I'm a Weatherby dork and would not touch that pa-08 with a 10 foot pole! it's caca.
Awesome have you shot one?
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  #10  
Old 08-18-2011, 5:17 PM
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I've not shot one to be Honest, but on the three Weatherby forums I frequent they get bad reviews and lots of complaints, Weatherby even sorta addressed it once and the makers were to look in to resolving the quirks???? I don't know if it has happened? I am however saving to get Weatherby's Auto loader SA-08
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 5:59 PM
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I was talking about the feel of a synthetic stock and forearm, but Googling the plastic parts of the 870 shows that the trigger group is plastic similar to the newer 10/22. I have nothing against plastic guns, I love my AR, Saiga and M&P 40. I'm sure the plastic parts on the newer 870's will be as durable as the metal or wood parts on the old Wingmaster otherwise there's no way Remington would use them. It's just a matter of personal feeling for the buyer.
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2011, 6:29 PM
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Ironically I have heard good things regarding the SA-08. though I have no first hand info on it, and never anything first hand good or bad about the PA-08.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2011, 6:44 PM
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There are three parts different internally in the Express -v- Wingmaster. (1) The Express has a polymer trigger plate housing, which is more durable then the cast aluminum of the Wingmaster. (2) the Express has a MIM extractor the Wingmaster has a solid steel one. I have never seen a MIM extractor fail. (3) the Express has a plastic magazine spring retainer which has nothing to do with function but is easier to remove then the metal one of the Wingmaster. That is it people. The rest of the weapon is the same, every freaking internal part. The difference is the finish and the stocks. The Express has an $80 stock set and the Wingmaster has a $240 hard wood set. There is your difference. Oh, and $7 difference in the cost of the extractor.

So, you go buy a used 870 or buy a new one with a two year warranty. Your call.
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2011, 6:53 PM
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It seems like my 870 Wingmaster has a lot better machining than my 870 express. When I detail strip the two, it seem like the receiver is not as finely machined.

Of course my Wingmaster is 30 year old and my Express much more recent. That could account for the difference.
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2011, 6:53 PM
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Not sure about the new 870's, but I've seen lots of older ones just go and go and go. Mossberg 500 or 590 is another good choice. Never even seen a Weatherby shotgun yet.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2011, 7:07 PM
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Personally, I would go with an 870 just because of the ease of getting it repaired quickly. If you have an 870 issue pop up, you can usually get it fixed no matter where you are.
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2011, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
Personally, I would go with an 870 just because of the ease of getting it repaired quickly. If you have an 870 issue pop up, you can usually get it fixed no matter where you are.
YEP!...
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2011, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
Not sure about the new 870's, but I've seen lots of older ones just go and go and go. Mossberg 500 or 590 is another good choice. Never even seen a Weatherby shotgun yet.
Thats my problem never seen one in use. A few at gunshops but never in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
Personally, I would go with an 870 just because of the ease of getting it repaired quickly. If you have an 870 issue pop up, you can usually get it fixed no matter where you are.
If there is an issue that you could get repaired on a 870 is the internals of a weatherby going to be differsnt enough that a smith won't be able to figure it out?Or is it a parts availability issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
It seems like my 870 Wingmaster has a lot better machining than my 870 express. When I detail strip the two, it seem like the receiver is not as finely machined.

Of course my Wingmaster is 30 year old and my Express much more recent. That could account for the difference.
This is what I was thinking? I don't know if it is true though? What say you aippi?

are there any differences in quality of machining?
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2011, 10:47 PM
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I just bought a Remington 870 Express Tactical w/ Ghost Ring Sights and couldn't be happier. At 50 yards the slugs I was shooting was about 1' high on target, but easily and consistently compensated for. Shooting skeet with it was a lot of fun, and I found the ghost rings to be easy to use since I'm used to my AR.

The trigger guard is plastic, but so is my Glock. Seems like a quality gun, so no issues.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2011, 11:13 PM
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I own 2 870's and for me they are the best bang for the buck. I cant say much about weatherby shotguns having never shot one but if it is anything like the quality of there lower end rifles i would be leery.

if you do end up buying an 870 and you want to smooth out the chamber just to make sure im offering to help, it really is easy but i would rather offer and have you buy the gun like better than be concerned about the one main issue that new 870's have
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2011, 7:39 AM
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If you go to www.remington.com and down load the parts list you will see a stripped Express receiver part #102572 cost $247 and a stripped Wingmaster Receiver part 102555 cost $247. This alone proves the machining is the same as anyone in that business understands if the Wingmaster receiver was more "finely" machined or in anyway more detailed then it would cost more.

I have stripped receivers out in the shop and if I hand you one of each and said here they are, now point out the internal differences, you could not.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:17 AM
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JD,

Have you noticed that the magazine follower in newer guns is a more flexible plastic?
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2011, 5:55 PM
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Stick with the 870. If you can find a used wingmaster with choke tubes that is the best way to go. They are hard to find with tubes though. The express are hit or miss. I had a great one never gave me any trouble but others have problem. Fit the wingmaster for LOP and pitch then shoot it till you die. The chrome bolt and more durable finish is worth the extra money. The main problem with the express is it rusts easily. Wingmasters also weigh substantialy less. about 3/4 of a pound in 12 gauge and 1/4 of a pound in 20 ga.
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Old 08-19-2011, 7:35 PM
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I have a beautiful old Wingmaster in 99%+ condition that I may be able to be talked out of!

Turners Signal hill currently has a beauty one on consignment that you can check out.
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:20 PM
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Yes, the blaze orange ones in the 870 is softer then the old black plastic ones. Or the older ones I see have just gotten brittle over the years.
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  #26  
Old 08-20-2011, 7:40 PM
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Default Barrel difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
There are three parts different internally in the Express -v- Wingmaster. (1) The Express has a polymer trigger plate housing, which is more durable then the cast aluminum of the Wingmaster. (2) the Express has a MIM extractor the Wingmaster has a solid steel one. I have never seen a MIM extractor fail. (3) the Express has a plastic magazine spring retainer which has nothing to do with function but is easier to remove then the metal one of the Wingmaster. That is it people. The rest of the weapon is the same, every freaking internal part. The difference is the finish and the stocks. The Express has an $80 stock set and the Wingmaster has a $240 hard wood set. There is your difference. Oh, and $7 difference in the cost of the extractor.

So, you go buy a used 870 or buy a new one with a two year warranty. Your call.
aippi, I notice that ordering replacement barrels for the two marks quite a difference between express vs. wingmaster barrels. Any comment for us on the reason for that difference?
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