Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calgunners in Service
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:48 AM
NewGuyKyle NewGuyKyle is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default New to Firearms (CVN76)

While floating around in the ocean for the past 7 months and being close to being home I've been doing a lot of thinking about how much time I'll be away from my old lady and how she will be protecting herself while I am away.

Seeing as I have absolutely NO firearm experience I've been asking around different people/forums and many say I should purchase her a Walther P22 as it is a low kick easily maintained gun.

Any suggestions for what gun to purchase her?

And for myself I have been reading up on the 4th Gen Glock 22 but the reviews I am finding aren't very conclusive. Could anyone shed some light on the pros/cons of the G22?

Thanks a lot in advance!
-Kyle
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-17-2011, 12:12 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,984
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuyKyle View Post
While floating around in the ocean for the past 7 months and being close to being home I've been doing a lot of thinking about how much time I'll be away from my old lady and how she will be protecting herself while I am away.

Seeing as I have absolutely NO firearm experience I've been asking around different people/forums and many say I should purchase her a Walther P22 as it is a low kick easily maintained gun.

Any suggestions for what gun to purchase her?

And for myself I have been reading up on the 4th Gen Glock 22 but the reviews I am finding aren't very conclusive. Could anyone shed some light on the pros/cons of the G22?

Thanks a lot in advance!
-Kyle
If your going to get a Walther why not a PPK in . 380 instead? .22 will kill, but the 380. and .32 ACP are better choices. And they have a slight increase in recoil.

As for the Glock 22, that is most widely pistol used in law enforcement as of today. However, i myself am not a total fanboy or impressed by it's reputation. ( Over rated)

The pros:

Lightweight.
Easy to maintain and fix.
Accurate.
Low cost.
readably available.
Smooth crips trigger.


The cons:
Polygonal barrel, non factory reloads void the warranty.
Unnatural grip angle ( in my opinion)
Glock fan boys are annoying :P

I'm more of a fan the Springfield XD myself, i find that it better suits me. But to each their own. There is also a Sig 2022 which is cheaper than the glock you want to buy, and has Double action and single+ a decocker. Might be a little complicated for a first time gun owner/shooter. But i highly recommend looking at that also.
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 08-17-2011 at 12:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-17-2011, 12:43 PM
NewGuyKyle NewGuyKyle is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So for her also look at the PPK .380? And for myself also look into the Sig 2022 and Springfield XD. Awesome. Thanks a lot.

Any other inputs?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2011, 1:00 PM
NewGuyKyle NewGuyKyle is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I browsed the PPK and it's significantly more expensive. Why are they so much better than the P22?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2011, 1:06 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,984
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuyKyle View Post
I browsed the PPK and it's significantly more expensive. Why are they so much better than the P22?
This is the pistol that bond 007 uses :P It depends if your buying a Cold War era PPK or a more recent production model of the pistol. Smith and Wesson make some under license . The reason it's more expensive is because it's pistol with a reputation and with a name.. The p22 is just for fun, never was intended as a self defense pistol ever.. Another comparable pistol that is cheaper is the russian Makarov in 9x18. You could also consider getting a Glock19, XD9 compact for your wife. (9mm)

I would recommend trying out all the pistols at a firing range. That way you can make up a choice to which one suits your needs/budget best. I'm merely giving you advice as a shooter since i was 18. And i've carried my XD in a holster for 3 years now, so i know i can trust my life with it. Like i said do what works best for YOU.
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 08-17-2011 at 1:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2011, 1:43 PM
GMG's Avatar
GMG GMG is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: El Cajon, CA.
Posts: 7,387
iTrader: 131 / 100%
Default

Welcome to the board........and thank you for your service!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2011, 1:55 PM
SoCal_Sapper SoCal_Sapper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 462
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuyKyle View Post
While floating around in the ocean for the past 7 months and being close to being home I've been doing a lot of thinking about how much time I'll be away from my old lady and how she will be protecting herself while I am away.
Just ask Jody, he'll protect her! Giggity!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2011, 7:19 PM
todd2968's Avatar
todd2968 todd2968 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,690
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Walther p22 was my first. After Katrina I found I was the only one on my block without protection. IF you get this nice .22 get the laser sight.
__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER
VFW LIFEMEMBER
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-17-2011, 7:25 PM
Massan's Avatar
Massan Massan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,038
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Sapper View Post
Just ask Jody, he'll protect her! Giggity!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-18-2011, 11:23 AM
tacticalcity's Avatar
tacticalcity tacticalcity is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rancho Cordova, California
Posts: 8,792
iTrader: 90 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuyKyle View Post
While floating around in the ocean for the past 7 months and being close to being home I've been doing a lot of thinking about how much time I'll be away from my old lady and how she will be protecting herself while I am away.

Seeing as I have absolutely NO firearm experience I've been asking around different people/forums and many say I should purchase her a Walther P22 as it is a low kick easily maintained gun.

Any suggestions for what gun to purchase her?

And for myself I have been reading up on the 4th Gen Glock 22 but the reviews I am finding aren't very conclusive. Could anyone shed some light on the pros/cons of the G22?

Thanks a lot in advance!
-Kyle
Look there are thousands of different handguns out there. The vast majority make lousy self defense guns, especially for a beginner. Sadly, these guys (who normally offer great advice) are giving really crappy advice now. That is NOT a personal dig. It is just that they are recommending the absolute LAST handguns you would want for self defense. They are steering you towards backup guns and rodent killers. Nice collector guns, but the absolute worst choices for your particular needs. You want a primary defensive handgun, a man killer.

No question your first handgun should be a Glock, or at least a Glock clone (M&P, XD, etc). They are SUPER easy to master. You and your wife are beginners and you need a gun that will get you up to speed as fast as humanly possile. The Glock does that. You do not want a thumb safety. Too great a chance your wife will screw up and leave the safety on and keep pulling the trigger while nothing happens except her attacker takes it from her. With 1 defensive handgun course the trigger safety on the Glock will be more than sufficient. Might sound scary now, but 1 class will do wonders for her skill level.

Start off with the Glock 17 9mm instead of a Glock 22 40S&W. 9mm and 40S&W are the caliber round they fire. Physically the guns are exactly the same. The only difference is their caliber.

9mm is easier recoil to manage. Getting multiple hits is more important than the ever so slight increase in knockdown power that you get from a 40S&W. That one shot one kill concept only exists in the movies. It is going to take at least 3-5 to do the job in real life. So you want to get those off as rapidly as possible while ensuring they are all good hits. Too much recoil and that won't happen. Too little power and you might as well not have a gun at all. 9mm strikes a good balance.

The biggest complaint about 40S&W how "snappy" the recoil feels to the shooter. mathmatically it has relatively low recoil. However, it has "felt" recoil that is very high. More recoil means slower shooting. Not good when you need 3-5 good hits to do the job.

Hence my recommending 9mm instead. It is a great beginner round. Powerful enough to be a manstopper. Light enough recoil a beginner can master it with a little bit of training and practice.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do, even more important than buying the gun itself, is to get your wife professional training. Check out the COMPETITION & TRAINING SECTION here on Calguns.net to find a school near you that offers affordable defensive or tactical handgun training. Just having her go with a buddy to the range is not enough. Just the basic safety course is not enough, because being safe is only a small (all be it important) part of the equation. She needs to know how to use it to save her life if somebody breaks in and tries to hurt her. That only comes from taking professional tactical pistol or defensive handgun courses.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 08-18-2011 at 11:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 2:21 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,984
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Look there are thousands of different handguns out there. The vast majority make lousy self defense guns, especially for a beginner. Sadly, these guys (who normally offer great advice) are giving really crappy advice now. That is NOT a personal dig. It is just that they are recommending the absolute LAST handguns you would want for self defense. They are steering you towards backup guns and rodent killers. Nice collector guns, but the absolute worst choices for your particular needs. You want a primary defensive handgun, a man killer.

No question your first handgun should be a Glock, or at least a Glock clone (M&P, XD, etc). They are SUPER easy to master. You and your wife are beginners and you need a gun that will get you up to speed as fast as humanly possile. The Glock does that. You do not want a thumb safety. Too great a chance your wife will screw up and leave the safety on and keep pulling the trigger while nothing happens except her attacker takes it from her. With 1 defensive handgun course the trigger safety on the Glock will be more than sufficient. Might sound scary now, but 1 class will do wonders for her skill level.

Start off with the Glock 17 9mm instead of a Glock 22 40S&W. 9mm and 40S&W are the caliber round they fire. Physically the guns are exactly the same. The only difference is their caliber.

9mm is easier recoil to manage. Getting multiple hits is more important than the ever so slight increase in knockdown power that you get from a 40S&W. That one shot one kill concept only exists in the movies. It is going to take at least 3-5 to do the job in real life. So you want to get those off as rapidly as possible while ensuring they are all good hits. Too much recoil and that won't happen. Too little power and you might as well not have a gun at all. 9mm strikes a good balance.

The biggest complaint about 40S&W how "snappy" the recoil feels to the shooter. mathmatically it has relatively low recoil. However, it has "felt" recoil that is very high. More recoil means slower shooting. Not good when you need 3-5 good hits to do the job.

Hence my recommending 9mm instead. It is a great beginner round. Powerful enough to be a manstopper. Light enough recoil a beginner can master it with a little bit of training and practice.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do, even more important than buying the gun itself, is to get your wife professional training. Check out the COMPETITION & TRAINING SECTION here on Calguns.net to find a school near you that offers affordable defensive or tactical handgun training. Just having her go with a buddy to the range is not enough. Just the basic safety course is not enough, because being safe is only a small (all be it important) part of the equation. She needs to know how to use it to save her life if somebody breaks in and tries to hurt her. That only comes from taking professional tactical pistol or defensive handgun courses.
Yes get a 9mm in 124,147 grain loads. Make sure its federal HST, or Ranger. Like i said before Glocks are good pistols, but they're over-rated, all the owners swear by them are narrow minded and biased towards any other type of pistol... Having a thumb safety doesn't slow you down that much, it's pretty obvious if the switch shows a red circle or not. You already have a advantage, as your pointing a firearm at a intruder in your home or a attacker....The wife is going to want a sexy, 'cute' looking pistol so thats why i suggested the PPK...
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 08-18-2011 at 2:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-18-2011, 2:36 PM
tacticalcity's Avatar
tacticalcity tacticalcity is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rancho Cordova, California
Posts: 8,792
iTrader: 90 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacit Blue View Post
Yes get a 9mm in 124,147 grain loads. Make sure its federal HST, or Ranger. Like i said before Glocks are good pistols, but they're over-rated, all the owners swear by them are narrow minded and biased towards any other type of pistol...
Like I said, I wasn't bashing you...I like the guns you suggested for other roles. Just don't like them for a brand new shooter looking for a good primary self defense weapon.

Yes there are people who just like Glocks because so and so says they are great. I'm not one of those guys. Countless hours of training on a dynamic range comparing them with other popular options are why I favor Glocks, especially for those just starting out. The simplicity of design makes mastering the basics easier because it gets out of your way. After you have fully mastered the Glock and hence the basics, then mastering more complicated designs becomes a heck of a lot easier. Far too often people get a really complicated gun and they spend all their time during training fighting with the tumb safety, decocker, two different trigger pulls, or whatever other design features trip them up. So while the other students using Glocks, M&Ps, etc are flying passed with progress wise, they struggle to keep up.

I like all kinds of guns, and am a collector in addition to being a shooter. I'm a big fan of 1911s, High Powers, USPs, and so on. There are lots of guns I will outright bash when it comes to their effectiveness in a firefight but wouldn't mind owning them in my collection because I like their history. There are guns that I would not want as a primary but they work great in other nitch roles like a purse gun (not that I carry a purse) or backup. But when it comes to a primary self defense side arm for a new shooter, the Glock 17 reigns king for me for the reasons stated in my above post. It is all about how quickly she can gain proficiency with it in my mind. I am not aware of any gun that shortens the learning curve as much the Glock.

I do hear you on the "sexy" and "cute" thing. I hear that all the time from women starting out. Then I take them to the range and let them fire a cute little pocket pistol and they discover it hurts like hell. Then I talk them into trying a full size gun and they are sold. I don't spell out my views in advanced. I let them discover this fact on their own.

The truth is, until they have a basic defensive skill set down, they have no clue how to evaluate what features will be helpful or a hinderance to that type of shooting. Most shooters, especially here in California, just buy a gun and then go to a standard flat range every couple months. That just doesn't cut it. Without a professional course, you simply won't know how to evaluate a gun for defensive purposes.

I am not saying that is you. For all I know your the ISPCA champion and an instructor for a major shooting school and make me look like a total NOOB (lord knows I have plenty of room for improvement despite my efforts). I am just saying there are a lot more plinkers in the world who than there are people with professional level training.

By the way, it is very nice to sell a fellow Air Force guy (or gal if that is the case) on Calguns.net.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 08-18-2011 at 2:54 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-18-2011, 3:09 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,984
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Like I said, I wasn't bashing you...I like the guns you suggested for other roles. Just don't like them for a brand new shooter looking for a good primary self defense weapon.

Yes there are people who just like Glocks because so and so says they are great. I'm not one of those guys. Countless hours of training on a dynamic range comparing them with other popular options are why I favor Glocks, especially for those just starting out. The simplicity of design makes mastering the basics easier because it gets out of your way. After you have fully mastered the Glock and hence the basics, then mastering more complicated designs becomes a heck of a lot easier. Far too often people get a really complicated gun and they spend all their time during training fighting with the tumb safety, decocker, two different trigger pulls, or whatever other design features trip them up. So while the other students using Glocks, M&Ps, etc are flying passed with progress wise, they struggle to keep up.

I like all kinds of guns, and am a collector in addition to being a shooter. I'm a big fan of 1911s, High Powers, USPs, and so on. There are lots of guns I will outright bash when it comes to their effectiveness in a firefight but wouldn't mind owning them in my collection because I like their history. There are guns that I would not want as a primary but they work great in other nitch roles like a purse gun (not that I carry a purse) or backup. But when it comes to a primary self defense side arm for a new shooter, the Glock 17 reigns king for me for the reasons stated in my above post. It is all about how quickly she can gain proficiency with it in my mind. I am not aware of any gun that shortens the learning curve as much the Glock.

I do hear you on the "sexy" and "cute" thing. I hear that all the time from women starting out. Then I take them to the range and let them fire a cute little pocket pistol and they discover it hurts like hell. Then I talk them into trying a full size gun and they are sold. I don't spell out my views in advanced. I let them discover this fact on their own.

The truth is, until they have a basic defensive skill set down, they have no clue how to evaluate what features will be helpful or a hinderance to that type of shooting. Most shooters, especially here in California, just buy a gun and then go to a standard flat range every couple months. That just doesn't cut it. Without a professional course, you simply won't know how to evaluate a gun for defensive purposes.

I am not saying that is you. For all I know your the ISPCA champion and an instructor for a major shooting school and make me look like a total NOOB (lord knows I have plenty of room for improvement despite my efforts). I am just saying there are a lot more plinkers in the world who than there are people with professional level training.

By the way, it is very nice to sell a fellow Air Force guy (or gal if that is the case) on Calguns.net.
Yes your right about the glock, it is by far the quickest bar none no fess pistol out there. It's a gun all business, however it isn't my cup of tea. I just fear that someone for a fist time shooter, may have a accidental discharge. If you've notice new shooters have a unhealthy habit of not extending their finger on the frame, as a ' resting' area. It tends to rest near the trigger guard, unless you beat into them for day one.

I've seen a noob rest it on the trigger on a XD and because the grip safety wasn't pressed in it didn't fire. I haven't competed in championships, i have ' real world' experience in carrying a firearm on duty. That is where my expertise in this subject matter comes from, i do see that you are very articulated and knowledgeable.

I appreciate the comment on the AF service. Although i wasn't in the service, i did force protection for UAV's. Hence the avatar pic
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 08-18-2011 at 3:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-19-2011, 7:10 AM
NewGuyKyle NewGuyKyle is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Well we both have the basic military hand gun training down so resting position with my index finger is second nature while holding a gun. Tactical city, thank you for the thurough explinations. As I type this I am waiting on the links to load for proper training. You are absolutely correct in the differences between going to the range with a buddy and being trained correctly. Thanks to everyone for all the help.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-07-2013, 9:05 PM
catmman's Avatar
catmman catmman is offline
CGSSA Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 443
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Smith and Wesson 38 revolver is the way to go. With double action she won't set it off without really trying and when she wakes up at 3:00 in the morning she doesn't have to worry about a malfunction and raise her non-shooting hand for help!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-07-2013, 9:17 PM
Oliver_Charles Oliver_Charles is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,213
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

***

Last edited by Oliver_Charles; 12-08-2013 at 4:32 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:41 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.