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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:13 AM
jink122 jink122 is offline
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Default Bolt Gun VS AR - Long Range

So i'm torn. I want to keep both but I want to open funds for a remmy 700 in 308. I have the following

Savage Model 10 predator with heavy barrel, accutrigger and accustock.

And

DPMS mk12 clone ar15 with basic lpk


I group sub moa with both at 100 yards, i like both. I love the AR because its ability to customize, 10 round mags are cheap and looks amazing, i like the bolt because it keeps my brass clean for reloading and the trigger makes it real easy vs the AR i have to take some time.

Both are rocking the nikon buckmaster 4.5x16 40

Any opinions from the calguns crew?

Also side note, anyone have any good recipes for the bolt gun for reloading? Or any store ammo they recommend?
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:19 AM
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I'd keep the AR
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  #3  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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I say, save up and buy the 700!
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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Keep the ar and put a nice trigger in it!
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:44 AM
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If the Savage is .223 I would sell it.
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  #6  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:17 AM
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better trigger, in the AR. Save up and buy the 700 for yourself. Christmas is almost here. This is what I'm doing.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:20 AM
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keep the bolt!

i have no basis for this. i just am a bigger fan of them.
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  #8  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:32 AM
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Since you're getting a bolt gun I would keep the AR.

The ammo I use in my 700 in 308 is 168gr Nosler Custom Competitions w/42.0gr of Reloder 15 at 2:875 OAL. That's what works best in my gun so far.
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  #9  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:58 AM
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I'm going to assume that your savage is in 223.. if that is the case I would sell that.. and buy a rem 700 and save for a trigger for the ar

ronin.
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:08 PM
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if the savage is in 223 why not just buy a new 308 barrel, mag and bolt head for it and drop it in. Should only take you 30 min to swap.
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:23 PM
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Keep both rifles, sell something else! Why give up a rifle you like and end up regretting it later?

Those Savage triggers are pretty sweet.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:26 PM
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another one of these??? Bolt for long range.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
I say, save up and buy the 700!
Indeed. There's a very good reasons snipers generally don't use M16 variants, much less M4. AR's with 24"+ barrels look a bit silly. Get a bolt action for your long range goodness.
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Uxi View Post
Indeed. There's a very good reasons snipers generally don't use M16 variants, much less M4. AR's with 24"+ barrels look a bit silly. Get a bolt action for your long range goodness.
I take it you have never heard of the Mk12.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:57 PM
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Why get a 700 in the same caliber as your Savage, if that's the case? You didn't specify the caliber of your model 10. I would say keep both and get better glass for them. Maybe use the funds for more ammo and training? Unless you don't like the Savage or really want a 700.

Federal match is really nice ammo, and can be found for a reasonable price online at many vendors. Of course, reloading the way to go for real precision. Do you currently reload? Maybe a better reloading set up what you need.

I think we need a few more details of your situation and then we can get a better idea of what you want to do.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2011, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
I take it you have never heard of the Mk12.
Heard of it? Sure. Think it's the best sniper platform? nah. Commonality is nice, and it has it's niche with the snake eaters, but I'd argue for the average joe, long range target shooting with a Remington 700 in .308 is a better decision far more often.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2011, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uxi View Post
Heard of it? Sure. Think it's the best sniper platform? nah. Commonality is nice, and it has it's niche with the snake eaters, but I'd argue for the average joe, long range target shooting with a Remington 700 in .308 is a better decision far more often.
I agree but people have different ideas of what long range is so an Ar might work fine for what he wants.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2011, 2:20 PM
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Both can do longrange but when both are custom built to the max for accuracy, the remmy 700 wins hands down. Only disadvantage with bolts is the ar is able to take down multiple targets faster than any bolt rifle can rack and reload. Also the ar can be used in short range situations as well given you have like a carbine or spr type upper.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2011, 4:51 PM
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How far do you want to shoot?

At 100 yards .308 is kind of a waste against paper unless you just want to make more noise. Ammo in .308 is also quite a bit more dollar per bang then .223 or 5.56.

If you are shooting 250+ yards then it might make some difference.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2011, 4:56 PM
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At Sac valley this sat a guy with a ar223 won the f/tr 3,8,9,1000 yard match I dont remember his name but he is a calguner
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  #21  
Old 08-15-2011, 5:00 PM
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At Sac valley this sat a guy with a ar223 won the f/tr 3,8,9,1000 yard match I dont remember his name but he is a calguner
I thought 223 mice guns cant touch 1k yd targets.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2011, 5:17 PM
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Contrary to popular belief modern AR's can be just as accurate as a fine boldt gun. AR15's are also now available in more powerful cartridges for extending your range (I.e. 243 wssm and 6.5lbc).

The major disadvantage to an AR when compared to a boldt action when accuracy is the goal is the AR's hammer vs the bolts striker. Because of the ARs hammer it has a longer lock time.
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2011, 7:52 PM
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Any respectable gun collection should at least minimally have one semi-auto rifle and one bolt action rifle. Whatever brand or caliber, is your choice. That is my philosophy.
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2011, 8:05 PM
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Sell the Savage to fund the 700.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2011, 8:32 PM
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i would save up, i have only sold one gun in my life and I regret it to this day.... keep every gun you have, its better in the long run. I love my .308 i shoot it alot, but i love my .223 for plinking, love my ar for bang bang bang lol. if you have to part with one, part with the savage because then you will have basically the same base platform.... one bolt gun, one AR, right now... in this day and age, i would not part with an AR, god only KNOWS if we will be able to find them on shelves in the near future.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:59 PM
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so many responses! LOVE IT!

the savage is a 223. If i could just swap out the bolt head, barrel, and magazine, i'd LOVE to do that to convert to a 308, but any idea on what im looking at cost and is it possible?

I have considered a trigger, this is probably means for another thread but any recommended triggers?
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
I say, save up and buy the 700!
Hahaha This^



Savage are great rifles.. But Im a 700 guy till the day I die.. so Sell the savage and get a nice 700...

Keep the AR for CQB run and gun stuff like I do.. No reason to have 2 rifles that do the same thing...

Sell the savage to a buddy that way you can still use it
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Old 08-16-2011, 5:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jink122 View Post
So i'm torn. I want to keep both but I want to open funds for a remmy 700 in 308. I have the following

Savage Model 10 predator with heavy barrel, accutrigger and accustock.

And

DPMS mk12 clone ar15 with basic lpk


I group sub moa with both at 100 yards, i like both. I love the AR because its ability to customize, 10 round mags are cheap and looks amazing, i like the bolt because it keeps my brass clean for reloading and the trigger makes it real easy vs the AR i have to take some time.

Both are rocking the nikon buckmaster 4.5x16 40

Any opinions from the calguns crew?

Also side note, anyone have any good recipes for the bolt gun for reloading? Or any store ammo they recommend?
jink122,

You can't beat a bolt action for accurate long range shooting.

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  #29  
Old 08-16-2011, 6:51 AM
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Since the title of you thread implies to LR (LR for most small arms is 800+yds)

We all know a semi can be accurate yadda yadda......
There is many other areas where bolt guns have the upper hand in the LR game though. One of the most important being consistency. As you noted it IS possible to shoot your AR as accurate as your bolt gun but it does take extra time. This is completely true. ARs must be driven in a much more complicated fashion then Bolts. I'm not saying it's not possible but when looking for every little advantage you can @ 1k with a 308 you definitely don't want to struggle driving your rifle. Bolt guns are simple. They are more easily repeatable with your technique and it will mostly come down to your knowledge of the elements beyond that. If you've never shot in wind or changing weather then you would need to understand what goes into making "consistent" shots at LR. Bolt guns also have the upper hand in load tuning. Most semi 308s will pop primers trying to reach the velocities that you can achieve with a Bolt rifle. In LR velocity plays a big part. Most people taking LR shots on the norm will be pushing their rounds as fast as possible to help counter all those elements i talked about before.

If you're just learning or wanting to learn LR then get a 700 in 308. It's one of the best places to start from. I've had factory 700s that shot 1/2" groups as well so this should keep you happy for sometime until you're ready for a go fast caliber like 260 or 243. It's important to take the time to learn how to properly make consistent hits and read conditions at LR. If you're just looking to spray a 1000yd piece of steel with 10rds as fast as you can pull the trigger with a %50 hit ratio then the semi will be fine. Once you learn and get comfy with the bolt gun you could successfully move over to a semi and still get great results.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jink122 View Post
so many responses! LOVE IT!

the savage is a 223. If i could just swap out the bolt head, barrel, and magazine, i'd LOVE to do that to convert to a 308, but any idea on what im looking at cost and is it possible?

I have considered a trigger, this is probably means for another thread but any recommended triggers?
Its cheap, you need the following....
Action/barrel vise - $15-50 depending on model
Barrel nut wrench - $24
Bolt head - $20
Box mag - $10
Front Bolt Baffle Savage 110 - $4
Barrel - $100-$400 depending on quality

So you could rebuilt it to 308 for under $300
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:43 AM
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I might be a hypocrite but try to keep them both and save for the next.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:48 AM
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the reminton bolt gun and savage bolt serve the same purpose, but you like the rem better sell the savage buy the rem and you will be happy. There are better calibers than .308 for long range work spend some time here for long range education http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/

Last edited by Hunt; 08-16-2011 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 08-16-2011, 6:06 PM
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Thanks all for the info. I'm happy with the savage but its a 223 and want to get something with a little more power. But because i'm doing long range shooting and have no real desire to take the heavy rifle tactically, i'm debating between the AR and Bolt for the 223 since i can get these rounds cheaper and will have fun punching paper at 100 and 200 yards. But recently been hitting steel at 600 and wanted something that would make it easier.

I think i will do what we are all thinking and keep both and save. I'll try to get better with the 223 LR (to me 600 yards is LR) and when the time comes i'll get the 308. Thanks again all.
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  #34  
Old 08-17-2011, 12:16 AM
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If you are looking to hit metal at at 600 yards then you don't need a new gun. The savage in .223 can get the job done just fine. Your AR may also be capable depending on what upper/ammo combination you use.
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  #35  
Old 08-17-2011, 1:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusedusername View Post
If you are looking to hit metal at at 600 yards then you don't need a new gun. The savage in .223 can get the job done just fine. Your AR may also be capable depending on what upper/ammo combination you use.
+ 1

Try experimenting with some loads and learning about ballistics. Some 75gr Amax's flying 2800fps+ out of that 223 bolt rifle will rival a 308 at 600yds and should still shoot well at 100.
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  #36  
Old 08-17-2011, 4:14 PM
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Keep the AR.

It just doesn't make sense to keep the Savage if your AR shoots sub-moa.
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