Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-24-2011, 10:29 PM
davedog01's Avatar
davedog01 davedog01 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 310 to 951
Posts: 623
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default FAL gas setting-please advise

I have gone to the middle of nowhere to shoot my Enterprise FAL and have blown the bottom of the mag out on the first shot both times. I'm shooting TULA ammo and I believe I've got the gas setting wrong. The gun cycles fine in a single shot/ no-mag configuration. I didn't really comprehend the directions when I read them. The gun was set to 3. any advise will be appreciated-thanks!
__________________
Take an ANTI shooting. They might enjoy themselves!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-24-2011, 11:25 PM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 6,227
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

That sounds like a serious problem. I'd stop shooting and have a gunsmith look at it. Even on the most extreme setting, I've never had my FAL blow out a mag. It will huck brass about 30 feet, but that's it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2011, 11:26 PM
G-forceJunkie's Avatar
G-forceJunkie G-forceJunkie is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SCV, So. Cal
Posts: 4,134
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Stop shooting that rifle. What do the fired cases look like? Are the case heads seperating?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-25-2011, 6:39 AM
Barabas's Avatar
Barabas Barabas is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: 916
Posts: 3,372
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Who did you buy that rifle from? It needs to go back. Dollars to donuts, you've got a headspace issue.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-25-2011, 7:08 AM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davedog01 View Post
I have gone to the middle of nowhere to shoot my Enterprise FAL and have blown the bottom of the mag out on the first shot both times. I'm shooting TULA ammo and I believe I've got the gas setting wrong. The gun cycles fine in a single shot/ no-mag configuration. I didn't really comprehend the directions when I read them. The gun was set to 3. any advise will be appreciated-thanks!
A wrong gas settings results in short stroking if too low and violent stroking if too high. Blowing magazines out is not a behavior you should ever see on either end of the scale. The numbers don't actually mean that much, there are tolerances, but the lower the number, the higher the gas setting (with 7 lowest, 1 highest).

I'd suggest you first identify what's happening that gas is pressurizing the receiver/magazine which should not be happening. Forcing the magazine out passed the catch would take a good amount of force. If the force of the recoil is what is causing the mag to drop, the catch, spring or both might be worn and in need of replacement. Is the catch damaged? Used spares can be bought from Apex and others.

On the max gas setting more gas is getting directed to the piston face to overcome filth in the action and maybe a bit of that gas will make it into the receiver, but I can't imagine it being enough to dislodge the magazine. Clean the gas block and plug, gas tube and gas ports. Make sure the gas plug is clean and dry, put neither oil nor grease on anything in or near these parts.

The philosophy of the FAL gas system is to use the minimum setting that can reliably cycle the action consistently, reducing stress on the rifle and shooter alike. Many folks use whatever the minimum setting they find works for the ammo they are firing and then go up by one tick to make sure it continues to cycle reliably even with some variation in ammunition pressure shot to shot, which can be an issue sometimes with 50 year old surplus ammo.

The procedure I use from the FAL manual with my own modifications (assumes bolt hold open device present) is as follows:

1) Load one round into the magazine, set the gas adjustment on 7 (the lowest) and fire the weapon. If the weapon cycles and locks on the hold-open on the first round with the setting, repeat to confirm.

2) If the bolt does not lock onto the hold open (short stroke), move up a tick to 6 and repeat.

3) Move up a tick with each failure to lock the bolt carrier onto the hold open until the bolt finally locks open.

4) If you reach the maximum setting, the 1 tick, something is wrong with the weapon's gas system, the ammunition or both. Move back to the lowest setting before testing other ammo to avoid damage to the rifle that could result with hotter loads and weaker recoil springs.

For the most part, a rifle will cycle with most of the decent surplus ammo on 4-5 and on hotter commercial .308 on 6 or 7, but that assumes a clean weapon with a properly functioning gas system.

If you experience a failure to feed, fire or extract during this set of tests and adjustment, (for failures to fire, wait 30 seconds to clear it manually), remove the round and inspect it. Look for dented primer, ruptured case, head separation, swelling, etc.

Good luck,

R

Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 07-25-2011 at 7:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-25-2011, 8:17 AM
smle-man's Avatar
smle-man smle-man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 6,936
iTrader: 104 / 100%
Default

It almost sounds like a case failure issue or in this instance like the case is not sealing to the chamber. It would be worth it to inspect the chamber for flaws and try milspec brass cased ammo. The fact that this only happens when self loading is significant. It sounds ammo related to me.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-25-2011, 8:56 AM
thedrickel's Avatar
thedrickel thedrickel is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lost in the wheels of confusion
Posts: 5,374
iTrader: 128 / 100%
Default

You need to check the headspace and/or take it back to Entreprise.
__________________
I hate people that are full of hate.

It's not illegal to tip for PPT!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2011, 10:29 AM
Sicarius's Avatar
Sicarius Sicarius is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,249
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Check the headspace!! You have more serious issues than a gas setting.
Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-25-2011, 10:33 AM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 6,227
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
It almost sounds like a case failure issue or in this instance like the case is not sealing to the chamber. It would be worth it to inspect the chamber for flaws and try milspec brass cased ammo. The fact that this only happens when self loading is significant. It sounds ammo related to me.
I'd doubt it is ammo related since it happened twice in two mags and probably vents gas every round. I'm in the same boat as everyone else who thinks it is a major headspace issue. It needs to go to a gunsmith.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:02 AM
smle-man's Avatar
smle-man smle-man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 6,936
iTrader: 104 / 100%
Default

Let us know what the solution turns out to be.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-25-2011, 8:21 PM
davedog01's Avatar
davedog01 davedog01 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 310 to 951
Posts: 623
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default

I will take it back and let everyone know what they say. I have been suspicious of the ammo but I'll have the headspace checked. Thanks!!
__________________
Take an ANTI shooting. They might enjoy themselves!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-25-2011, 9:00 PM
chead's Avatar
chead chead is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,054
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barabas View Post
Who did you buy that rifle from? It needs to go back. Dollars to donuts, you've got a headspace issue.
Seriously, you're having some EXTREME over-pressure. If you keep shooting it like that and for some reason the mag doesn't come out, you're going to have a bolt carrier sticking out of your forehead.

Stop shooting it, get it checked out immediately.

Or to paraphrase the Wu-Tang Clan: "[Over-pressure] ain't nothin' ta **** wit."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:25 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.