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  #1  
Old 07-23-2011, 3:10 PM
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Default Anybody heard of California Sportsman Association?

Has anyone used or even heard about this outfitter? They are all over craigslist right now offering several different types of hunts. I was hoping for a referral before I book something that I am very interested in.

California Sportsman Association
714-818-6847
CA OutFitters License: 11812

Last edited by HunterRyan; 07-24-2011 at 7:21 AM..
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:26 PM
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http://us.wowcity.com/morenovalley/l...-associati.htm

http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...n.714-818-6847

I would avoid Dan Fine. Even his family is calling him immoral.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:38 PM
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I'd want a little more than one post by an alleged family member before I wrote someone off. Anyone can be anybody they want on those review sites.

I met Rock from this group at the Raahuages Shooting Fair, they had a booth there. He appeared to be legit. That is all I know.
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:47 PM
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I've heard Fine's name mentioned a few times over the years and nobody had anything good to say. You will see a post dated this month from a guy who says watch out. Stories included deposits and hunting trips paid but no hunt done, questions about legal guiding and phone numbers being disconnected. If he were okay I would expect to see a lot of positive reviews, wouldn't you? How many Fines can there be in So. Cal. providing hunting? I suppose it's possible it is another guy, I assumed it was him after Googling the reviews. I could be wrong.

Quality guides are all over the place...if you feel comfortable then Fine (pun intended) but I require a bit more credibility before I remit payment. Maybe that's just me. Like the one poster said...due diligence.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.

Last edited by BC9696; 07-23-2011 at 10:59 PM..
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:49 PM
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He is still around?
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:00 PM
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First I've heard of Dan Fine Bruce. Sounds like there is some smoke then and due diligence is good advise. They are also promoting fishing trips for saltwater out of Fisherman's Landing if I recall correctly.
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Old 07-24-2011, 7:19 AM
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I posted this hoping to get a good response. Sorry for the deception, but I didn't want to bash the guy right away. I booked a hunt for this Wednesday that is now not happening. He seems like a nice guy, but I am concerned about my refund. Luckily, I paid by credit card, so I can dispute the charge. We'll see what happens. I will keep everyone posted.

It's true that there are a lot of outfitters out there. But not offering Mule Deer hunts on Catalina for $1000. It felt too good to be true when I booked it. I should have trusted my instincts.

Last edited by HunterRyan; 07-24-2011 at 7:26 AM..
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Old 07-24-2011, 9:44 AM
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The Catalina hunting concession is through The Catalina Conservancy with all proceeds going to them. I believe the only legal outfitter is this guy (see link) and he is booked for this year.

http://www.wildlifewestinc.com/catalinaislanddeer.html Here is the direct number to the conservancy about their hunting program (310) 510-1888 X. 221

If someone else is claiming to book hunts on the island, I'm thinking its either going to be fraud or fraud + poaching. If you paid money, you may have a criminal and civil complaint against the "outfitter"

I also question the wisdom of booking a hog hunt with someone who lives in Apple Valley when there are so many established and reputable guides that live and work in pig country.

Last edited by ScottB; 07-24-2011 at 11:09 AM..
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2011, 9:49 AM
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Default Hmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRyan View Post
I posted this hoping to get a good response. Sorry for the deception, but I didn't want to bash the guy right away. I booked a hunt for this Wednesday that is now not happening. He seems like a nice guy, but I am concerned about my refund. Luckily, I paid by credit card, so I can dispute the charge. We'll see what happens. I will keep everyone posted.

It's true that there are a lot of outfitters out there. But not offering Mule Deer hunts on Catalina for $1000. It felt too good to be true when I booked it. I should have trusted my instincts.
Catalina? As far as I know, that is something that must be authorized by the Catalina Conservancy and if you wanna know if Fine is legit, contact them to see if he's approved for hunts on Cat. If not, you know you've been defrauded and should file an immediate chargeback request. Be sure to get the Catalina Conservancy's response in writing...I would email them so you can present a document to your card issuer when disputing the charge. If you were defrauded then you should post it here and submit a review of your experience everywhere possible. JMO
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2011, 11:47 AM
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I'm trying not to get into all the details until I know everything for sure. But I did all of the suggestions above. I will update this thread when I am confident that I am not smearing someone without all the facts.

Short story is that this was a new contract he had with the conservancy that fell through after he booked our hunt.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:26 PM
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Not trying to hijack the thread but wow. Interesting statement on the CSA website about Dan Fine.

Quote:
http://califsportsman.com/Aboutus.html

Dan Fine, former Wyoming State Hunting Guide, sportsman for over 30 yrs.. Dan has always be about a balance between number of animals taken and growth of an existing herd. Passionate in working with Deer, Elk, Wild Boar and Wild Turkey in rebuilding their numbers. Its was Dan's idea to raise up 260 Wild Turkeys and deposit them into the San Bernardino mountain.

"We know the mountains have wild turkey, boosting their population doesn't taken from it only adds to existing numbers. The area is perfect for Turkey with the right vegetation as well as ground cover from predators. The buck weed is a great deterent for any predator as well as Hunters. These birds are smart and in order to get one you will have to match wits with them in calling. I love a challenge and turkeys have widely been known for their intelligence. If California would allow the Game Wardens to say how many hunters went into areas the numbers of animals would be far greater. I believe the Wardens chose there careers hoping to do just that."
First, the NWTF can't even transplant turkeys in the SBNF due to a threat of a lawsuit from the Native Plant Society and other anti groups.

Second, you would need a permit issued by the DFG to release turkeys into the SBNF.

I've seen and heard these birds, they appear to be Easterns. Maybe we should get Dan to bring in some Pauns or Bab mule deer for SBNF?
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Old 07-25-2011, 7:00 AM
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This is gonna be an interesting thread to watch.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2011, 8:29 AM
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Always a smart move to admit to releasing a "potential" non-native game species into the wilds of California.
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Old 07-25-2011, 5:02 PM
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Turkeys were transplanted into the SBNF intially in the early 1960's up into the 1990's at least. DFG was not threatened until the middle part of the last decade.

Without a date attached to the claim, how do you know?

Unless the conservancy corroborates it, I'd be doubtful about the Catalina hunt concession story
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Old 07-27-2011, 8:59 AM
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I sent an inquiry to the Catalina authority and just received the following reply (insert drum roll here):

Bruce, Dan Fine is not authorized to conduct hunts on Catalina and has been advised that his organization must not advertise or plan any hunting on Catalina. Please let me know if you paid a deposit and have not received a refund.

Thanks Mel

M.L. (Mel) Dinkel, P.E.
Chief Operating Officer
Santa Catalina Island Conservancy
(310) 510-2595 x 131
mdinkel@catalinaconservancy.org
www.catalinaconservancy.org
__________________
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:19 AM
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OK. So here's the scoop.

I saw an ad on Craigslist for Mule deer hunts on Catalina Island for $1,150. The Ad referenced the California Sportsman Association and Dan Fine. I checked out their website and saw their CA outfitter license number, so I checked that out. I filled out the form on the website and was immediately called by Dan. After a 45 minute conversation, I was more than pumped about my upcoming hunt. I told my Father and he called Dan. He booked his hunt as well. I received a very official looking receipt via email for the hunt. I was told that you were able to hunt early on Catalina's PLM program (which I now know is also not true), and the hunt was booked for July 27 to 30. He quoted me a 95% success rate.

About a week and a half before the hunt, I emailed Dan to get more info on something, and did not receive a response. I tried several times with no response. I left voicemails that went unreturned. Finally, last Friday I reached Dan by using a different phone. Once he realized it was me on the phone, he told me that he had been planning to call me to tell me that the hunt had to be cancelled. His story was that he had signed a contract with Mel to hunt on the island. He then booked our hunts. Mel had also signed an exclusive contract with another outfitter and had now voided his contract. Dan stated that he would refund our payment that day.

Dan is no longer returning phone calls or emails, and the money has not been refunded.

I contacted the conservancy and confirmed that Dan never had a contract to hunt on the island.

This guy is still advertising hunts on Craigslist, and his website is still active.

Before you say it... I do realize that we should have done more to check this out before giving credit card numbers. When it seems too good to be true, it is. Expensive lesson learned.

If and when my money gets refunded, I will update this thread and delete any negative comments about Fine.

Last edited by HunterRyan; 07-27-2011 at 12:14 PM..
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2011, 11:48 AM
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Submit a chargeback to your card issuer...you will receive a full credit to your card because this is fraud. Do it now...it's a painless process. I feel your pain but you didn't do anything wrong so don't beat yourself up too much...Dan Fine will find a special sauna in the basement of hell waiting for him, right next to OJ Simpson and Scott Peterson.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:28 PM
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I submitted the chargeback on Sunday, but they told me that I needed to wait until today becuase it was the day of the hunt. (I'm at work instead today...) So now I have to submit the request in writing. It will probably take a while.

The worst part about it is that I got my Dad involved. So now he's out the money as well. We were really counting the days to the trip. Severely bummed out...
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:56 PM
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Print this thread out and attach it to your CBR. Credits (depending on card type and issuer) usually take 72 hrs to 2 weeks.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:24 PM
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Exclamation As Dan Fines sister,

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
This is gonna be an interesting thread to watch.
I am not at all surprised at this, unfortunately. I am the sister that has made those postings, this is the only way we can warn people as even your local law enforcement can do NOTHING until someone files a formal complaint. It has been going on for 3 years, and it has to stop. We had no idea of the magnitude, we have no idea how many families and businesses have been ripped off, and this is the only way we can help stop it form happening to someone else.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by HunterRyan View Post
I submitted the chargeback on Sunday, but they told me that I needed to wait until today becuase it was the day of the hunt. (I'm at work instead today...) So now I have to submit the request in writing. It will probably take a while.

The worst part about it is that I got my Dad involved. So now he's out the money as well. We were really counting the days to the trip. Severely bummed out...
...and we are praying your refund comes to you quickly. Know that there are legitimate guides out there, just not my brother.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
Print this thread out and attach it to your CBR. Credits (depending on card type and issuer) usually take 72 hrs to 2 weeks.
...and then take it a step further and REPORT it to the proper ( in your state I have no idea ) authorities.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
Submit a chargeback to your card issuer...you will receive a full credit to your card because this is fraud. Do it now...it's a painless process. I feel your pain but you didn't do anything wrong so don't beat yourself up too much...Dan Fine will find a special sauna in the basement of hell waiting for him, right next to OJ Simpson and Scott Peterson.
You are so right.

My brother was not raised to lie, cheat, steal or deceive. He made those choices on his own, unfortunately. The people that we have recently become acquainted with are good people, just like yourself. Please follow thru, there is so much more to all this mess than you even know...and the potential for more ''victims'' is really frightening. Listen to the advice these folks are giving you, and REPORT THIS, even if you do get refunded, it is still FRAUD.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HunterRyan View Post
OK. So here's the scoop.

I saw an ad on Craigslist for Mule deer hunts on Catalina Island for $1,150. The Ad referenced the California Sportsman Association and Dan Fine. I checked out their website and saw their CA outfitter license number, so I checked that out. I filled out the form on the website and was immediately called by Dan. After a 45 minute conversation, I was more than pumped about my upcoming hunt. I told my Father and he called Dan. He booked his hunt as well. I received a very official looking receipt via email for the hunt. I was told that you were able to hunt early on Catalina's PLM program (which I now know is also not true), and the hunt was booked for July 27 to 30. He quoted me a 95% success rate.

About a week and a half before the hunt, I emailed Dan to get more info on something, and did not receive a response. I tried several times with no response. I left voicemails that went unreturned. Finally, last Friday I reached Dan by using a different phone. Once he realized it was me on the phone, he told me that he had been planning to call me to tell me that the hunt had to be cancelled. His story was that he had signed a contract with Mel to hunt on the island. He then booked our hunts. Mel had also signed an exclusive contract with another outfitter and had now voided his contract. Dan stated that he would refund our payment that day.

Dan is no longer returning phone calls or emails, and the money has not been refunded.

I contacted the conservancy and confirmed that Dan never had a contract to hunt on the island.

This guy is still advertising hunts on Craigslist, and his website is still active.

Before you say it... I do realize that we should have done more to check this out before giving credit card numbers. When it seems too good to be true, it is. Expensive lesson learned.

If and when my money gets refunded, I will update this thread and delete any negative comments about Fine.

I am sincerely hoping you do get your money back, but it can't stop there. Don't let this happen to anyone else...he is busy ( or so he claims to his partner ) all day working on organizing this sort of thing. No one has money to just toss out the window, and sadly, some folks have done just that. Thats why he is better and better at it now.
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Old 07-27-2011, 5:06 PM
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This sucks you got ripped HunterRyan. Dan was at the Fred Hall Show in Long Beach selling hunts a buddy said so you're probably not the only one trying to get your money back. Deja view all over again like the scammer Larry Hamilton the hog guide near King City.

Is the Craig's List ad still there? Can you post a link to it if it is?

From what I hear Dan's world is about to turn.
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Old 07-27-2011, 5:43 PM
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If you still see the ad on craigslist "flag it", at least it will get it removed for a short while and you can save a few people from getting screwed.

Really sorry to hear you and your old man got screwed.

R/Denerio
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Old 07-27-2011, 6:35 PM
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Thanks to everyone for your kind comments. Especially Dan's sister. I have have already filed reports with two different PD's. My job has me working closely with law enforcement everyday, so I have a lot of contacts. Trust me, the chickens will come home to roost.
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Old 07-27-2011, 6:37 PM
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http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...507985001.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/2496945411.html


Here's some links to Ads on CL....

Last edited by HunterRyan; 07-27-2011 at 6:39 PM..
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Old 07-27-2011, 8:27 PM
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Don't flag it...let the cops set up a sting. He has to accept the money and that opens the door. He's already hidden his Apple Valley address that used to be on his website's domain registration. Are you watching Dan?
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 07-27-2011, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRyan View Post
Has anyone used or even heard about this outfitter? They are all over craigslist right now offering several different types of hunts. I was hoping for a referral before I book something that I am very interested in.

California Sportsman Association
714-818-6847
CA OutFitters License: 11812
Hi, Its me again, Dans sister. He is texting my little sister as we speak, and he is HOT...wow ! What a temper ! She is really the only one he communicates with, by text only...I have his address, and the most recent information. if you want some help, please ask.
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Old 07-27-2011, 8:39 PM
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If he's hot now...wait till he dies. Gonna be a Fine BBQ.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 07-27-2011, 9:15 PM
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Hi,
If you need his address, he is living in the home of some apparently really nice folks, so it would be best if they were not involved. I have never spoken to them, I had hoped they would contact me, but that has not happened. His partner, Dan R. knows where he is. The house is on Bayes Drive in Lake Forest. Killingsworth residence. Close to the school. And he just bought a car, from someone...I have no clue what make or model. I will find out.
My mother is going to be 78 in just a few days, and she is beside herself over all this. We only started looking for him and researching his business dealings when he was not taking care of his family, and asking my mother for huge sums of money. Again, let me say, we were not raised to lie, cheat, steal or deceive. This is really hitting her hard, she still works, and she was trying to figure out how to send a 1000.00 or better monthly to his now ex-wife and child, as they had to move from their home and sell their belongings.
I am so very sorry.
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Old 07-28-2011, 5:01 PM
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Interesting 7 post and all on this thread
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Old 07-28-2011, 5:37 PM
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Geez, what a mess. I have hunted Catalina and the guy who runs the island now was my guide back then. I appreciate Ksaunders for trying to do what's right and I feel the pain for her and her family along with those who this guy has fleeced.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:14 AM
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Now that the fraud alert on California Sportsman Association and Dan Fine are out, I find myself feeling almost as bad for Dan's family as I do those he ripped off. What a worm. I hope those who have be defrauded will take the time (as the sister requests) to post reviews on sites (Yelp, BBB, Ripoff report, etc) and send editorial letters to hunting magazines like Western Outdoors. He'll always find victims but you guys that he's already ripped off can make it much more difficult for him by spreading the word and thanks to the Copy & Paste feature on your computer, it's not time consuming.
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Old 07-31-2011, 1:20 AM
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Default Scamming folks

This is a post I put up on Jesse's Hunting and Outdoors

"The only outfitter with a contract to hunt deer on Catalina this year is Wildlife West. The Catalina Conservancy has the hunting rights as the Conservancy controls of the 85% of the island, the parts that is not developed. They have had hunting set up as a PLM program now for quite a few years. They did not license any other outfitter other than Wildlife West - I know because I checked with the Conservancy CEO who is a friend of mine after I went to the Raahauge shooting fair earlier this year.

The reason I checked is because I ran into a fellow at the Raahauge Shooting event where he had a booth and he (? Dan Fine) told me about his Catalina hunts. I knew it was BS so when I pressed him about it he said he was "getting a contract/license" which I also knew was untrue as the Conservancy only licenses one outfitter. In fact Jesse himself was standing there with my wife and I at the time."
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Old 07-31-2011, 8:03 AM
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I think (and this is just my opinion) that it would be far more beneficial to post reviews on established "complaint" sites using the terms "fraud alert on California Sportsman Association and Dan Fine" so when hunters Google him, they are directed to info that reveals the man's larcenous nature. Only by connecting his name to acts of fraud can he be slowed down...I am certain he has already ceased offering hunts on Catalina and scamming people in other ways. Right Dan? I know you're reading this you POS.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #38  
Old 07-31-2011, 9:43 AM
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Andy, that was Dan Rockwell, "Rock" as he introduced himself to everyone, Dan Fine's partner at CSA. I must not have been listening or I would have asked you about his statement concerning. He did tell me the same thing that they (CAS) was in the process of getting their permits to hunt Catalina. The only time I talked to Dan (Rock) was when I was watching the elk booth for Dieter while he gave his elk seminar. Rock had the booth next to Dieter's and came over to talk.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
Maybe we should get Dan to bring in some Pauns or Bab mule deer for SBNF?
now that would be a great thing.
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Old 07-31-2011, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
Andy, that was Dan Rockwell, "Rock" as he introduced himself to everyone, Dan Fine's partner at CSA. I must not have been listening or I would have asked you about his statement concerning. He did tell me the same thing that they (CAS) was in the process of getting their permits to hunt Catalina. The only time I talked to Dan (Rock) was when I was watching the elk booth for Dieter while he gave his elk seminar. Rock had the booth next to Dieter's and came over to talk.
Jesse: Thanks for clarifying that Jesse, I didn't recall the guy's name. Yes, you were just "casually there" and I konw you didn't hear me press him about it as I knew the Conservancy had sold the concession for 2011 to Wildlife West. I just thought it was amusing that is where we happened to bump into each other.

BC9696 (also known as WB) - I will look at the sites you mentioned (Yelp etc) and be sure the intel is there as well.
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