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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 07-21-2011, 10:41 AM
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Default I want to buy a gun in AZ and bring it back to CA after AIT.

Iím a reservist. The whole guns on base thing shouldnít apply to my little plan.

The gears are spinning in my head and I thought of something and hope a few of you can help me figure out if I can do this or not.

I will be at AIT for 5 months in Arizona. I will have a CA drivers license, and a Military ID card.
1) Can I purchase a gun in AZ with only my military ID card. Iím not going to go through the hassle of getting an AZ drivers license.
2) My AIT period has Christmas in the middle of it. So if I fly back home and then drive back to AZ I will have my car with me at AIT.
3) Never mind I might not be able to acutely use my car while at AIT, but once I graduate I could then drive home from AIT.

See the plan?

1) Purchase gun with military ID card in AZ.
2) Time the purchase to where I would pick up the gun AFTER I graduate AIT, and I am out the door on my way home. The gun itself would never enter a military instillation, and I would go from the gun shop to my home in CA.
3) Get home, and register the gun in CA.

Can this be done? I think logistically I could do this without causing any military problems. So the question is can I buy in AZ with a military ID alone, and can I get it registered in CA once Iím back?

There is no intent of profit. Itís just one of those ha-ha, look what I have and Iím in CA.
Things on my wish list are
1) Colt WWI repo
2) Off list Les Baer or Wilson Combats.
3) XDmís
4) Various 9mm chambered 1911ís. I would go ape for a 9mm Wilson Combat.

If thereís nothing I see that I want I wont do it for the sake of doing it.

Thanks,
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2011, 11:02 AM
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It really depends on AZ's laws, I know with UT if you have orders for being there (i.e. Camp Williams) you can purchase long guns as if you are a resident there in UT, pistols as well provided the orders are greater than 30 days. I would have taken advantage of it myself when I was there earlier in the year but I was broke at the time.

You will probably need a copy of orders to prove your residence in the state, 5 months in AIT would count, there will be no problem registering them once you return to CA.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:34 AM
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You should be fine, Orders in hand, and State law may require you to be a resident over 30-60 days for pistol purchase.

Get a State ID also, helps with bars and such.

Enjoy AZ! They have an underground shooting range you can look up on line, lots of old classic full auto's you can rent from tommy's, MG-42s and Uzi's good luck!
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:14 PM
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Negative.

Unless you have PCS (permanent party) orders bringing you to AZ, you cannot purchase a firearm there legally.

That is not state law, Military regulation, local ordinance, a guesstimation or assumption, it is federal regulation and undisputible fact. If anyone tells you different they are a freaking idiot.
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2011, 12:24 PM
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What CavTrooper said.


18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C): IDENTIFICATION OF TRANSFEREE
27 CFR 178.124: FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD

A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:30 PM
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They will need a copy of your orders saying your stationed there and yes they will need to see your license. Its the same as they do for out of state military in california
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
What CavTrooper said.

[/B]
So then I would need to be attached to a unit stationed in AZ. Oh well. This is why I asked around. With internet forums I have a preference for seeing the laws myself, so I appreciate the references. It’s just so cumbersome sometimes to find gun related laws because they are endless. Like if I were allowed to make such a purchase of a Gen 4 Glock I couldn’t bring the magazines in even though the gun could be.

The upside is now I don’t have a temptation to buy more toys.

So this says I can’t do it with my military status.

So to circumvent that I’d need to rent an AZ apartment, get an AZ ID card, and run the transaction entirely as an AZ citizen that satisfies the AZ law regardning residency requirements.

I’ll stick with the single shot conversions through CA shops.

Last edited by Snoopy47; 07-21-2011 at 1:00 PM..
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2011, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
So then I would need to be attached to a unit stationed in AZ.
No, you would have to be permanently assigned to a unit/activity in AZ.


Quote:
So this says I can’t do it with my military status.

So to circumvent that I’d need to rent an AZ apartment, get an AZ ID card, and run the transaction entirely as an AZ citizen that satisfies the AZ law regardning residency requirements.
You can't circumvent it legally. Yes, you could do all those things. But none of them would change the fact that you are a member of the military on active duty with a permanent duty station somewhere other than AZ.

If you want to establish a legimate residence in AZ after you revert to a reserve status, then that's an entirely different matter.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2011, 6:23 PM
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AZ wont sell to anyone with a California ID. Period.
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Old 07-22-2011, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68WhiskeyNCoke View Post
AZ wont sell to anyone with a California ID. Period.
Yes they will, with PCS orders....
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  #11  
Old 07-23-2011, 9:04 PM
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service members can buy in any state as long as they are on orders to be stationed in that state. you must have a copy of your orders to do so. states my vary on the types of orders that are acceptable or the FFL for that matter.
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Old 07-23-2011, 9:41 PM
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WRONG those that have had orders know the deal. Your orders have to say you are permanently stationed in that state NO FOR AIT or TAD. You only are a resident of the state for the purposes of ATF if you are under Permanent change of station orders.
You might be able to buy a gun from a private citizen in that state which might be less than legal, but he would be acting in good faith if you are ARMY you surely should be legal, but you cannot purchase from an FFL.

THIS IS FACT
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2011, 1:23 PM
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You might be able to buy a gun from a private citizen in that state which might be less than legal, but he would be acting in good faith if you are ARMY you surely should be legal, but you cannot purchase from an FFL.
Well don't give me any ideas.

Like I said, it's nothing our single shot conversion can't circumvent I just hoped I could have saved that trouble.
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Old 07-27-2011, 1:14 PM
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If im correct, i can assume you are dong the 35F course in ft huachuca?

From personnal experence buy your firearm while your there now. You can only buy a firearm in AZ on PCS orders. As an AITer your orders count as PCS orders. So yes, your logic is sound that you can buy a firearm in AZ on your way out the door and bring it back to CA with you (as long as its CA legal)

If you stay in the army long term, you be back to ft huachuca for various trainings, but with TDY orders. You need PCS orders to purchase, so now is the time.

Good Luck
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Old 07-27-2011, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by develown View Post
If im correct, i can assume you are dong the 35F course in ft huachuca?

From personnal experence buy your firearm while your there now. You can only buy a firearm in AZ on PCS orders. As an AITer your orders count as PCS orders. So yes, your logic is sound that you can buy a firearm in AZ on your way out the door and bring it back to CA with you (as long as its CA legal)

If you stay in the army long term, you be back to ft huachuca for various trainings, but with TDY orders. You need PCS orders to purchase, so now is the time.

Good Luck
AIT orders are defenitly NOT PCS orders.
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Old 07-27-2011, 4:10 PM
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AZ will not let you, very strict on selling guns to CA people, you have to have AZ id to do this, and your order wont get you anything either, sorry

its easier if you get a AZ id and go that route besides DMV's there are never busy so you get the id on the spot
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:29 PM
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My BASIC/AIT orders (I was at an OSUT unit) were PCS orders. Granted that was 15 yrs ago...
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Old 07-28-2011, 2:04 AM
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A friend in AZ said you can often buy guns at garage sales there.

I wonder if that is true?

If so, and the OP found something he liked and purchased legally from a private party could he bring it into CA and do the online self registration with the DOJ?

I would just call them and ask, but it is late and perhaps someone already has this info.

Next, would it matter if it is a handgun that is legal in every way (mag limits, not a judge 410/45lc, ect...) but not on the roster?
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Old 07-28-2011, 3:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
AIT orders are defenitly NOT PCS orders.
On the orders it says PCS and is formatted like PCS orders, henceforth they will be acceptable for the purchasing of a firearm. I still have my AIT orders and they do say PCS.
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Old 07-28-2011, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Deal View Post
A friend in AZ said you can often buy guns at garage sales there.

I wonder if that is true?

If so, and the OP found something he liked and purchased legally from a private party could he bring it into CA and do the online self registration with the DOJ?

I would just call them and ask, but it is late and perhaps someone already has this info.

Next, would it matter if it is a handgun that is legal in every way (mag limits, not a judge 410/45lc, ect...) but not on the roster?
It's true for AZ residents.
AZ state laws allows for face-to-face cash & carry type transfers between non-prohibited persons.

However, FEDERAL LAWs prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of different states, unless the firearm is transfered through a FFL dealer in the buyer's state of residence.

Since the OP is not a resident of AZ and does not have active duty military status with permanent orders for AZ, he can not legally acquire a firearm while in AZ, unless the firearm is transfered through a CA FFL dealer.
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Old 07-28-2011, 6:48 AM
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Originally Posted by develown View Post
On the orders it says PCS and is formatted like PCS orders, henceforth they will be acceptable for the purchasing of a firearm. I still have my AIT orders and they do say PCS.
Never seen that before, can you scan and post please? (Redatcted version, of course)
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:18 AM
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Never seen that before, can you scan and post please? (Redatcted version, of course)
Iím interested too. Because as far as I read everything the law CavTropper provided defines my situation. I canít present AZ residency other than what the military provides me, and if the military doesnít present me something that qualifies under what CavTrooper referenced then Iím simply SOL.

I could see a magic piece of paper that may be used for standardization and simplicity of Army paperwork happening with the unintended consequences affecting firearms purchases. That would be a golden ticket.

But I was wondering, some MOSís have very lengthy training periods. A linguist can be in AIT over a year, and I could see in those situations a more permanent station order being issued.

This whole dance I am trying to do doesnít give me cart blanch as to what I can bring back with me. I wanted an AR to be my next purchase, but Iím going to stay away from that and get one while in CA next year.

However, if I managed to find a Wilson Combat 1911 in 9mm I would be very excited and would love to snatch it up. But I have to FIND it, I donít have time to ORDER one.

A lot of this also depends on my ability to get my car back with me at AIT, and make a purchase before my orders expire, and that all requires I also be able to have enough free time looking around gun stores.
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:17 AM
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Sound advice given above; your actual orders and how they read are going to be the key. Key example EOD school is 9 months and is considered a PCS school where you can bring your family. If your orders are actually assigning you to a Tradoc unit for training instead of being TDY, then your clear to purchase firearms.

Also with how relaxed the Army is getting with MOS-Ts, you might wanna just ask to see the company or battalion armorer and ask if they will present the CO with a memorandum authorizing you to keep a private firearm in the armsroom.
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Old 08-01-2011, 2:32 PM
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Also with how relaxed the Army is getting with MOS-Ts, you might wanna just ask to see the company or battalion armorer and ask if they will present the CO with a memorandum authorizing you to keep a private firearm in the armsroom.
I don't want to get up too much false hope. My AIT is only 5 months, so I might be SOL. And being a new entrant into the Army and reservist I didn't want to rock any boats. The army way of things will be hitting me from all directions.

If I canít time the purchase and taking possession of the firearm as I walked out the graduation door to my civilian destination then I probably won't purse it.

Three things need to happen.
1) I need the magic orders.
2) I need to be able to bring my car back after the winter break (Iím not going to deal with trying to ship it or fly with it).
3) I need to have the free time to make the purchase.

This has been very informative, and I hope other military newbs like myself got something out of it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pigman View Post
Enjoy AZ! They have an underground shooting range you can look up on line, lots of old classic full auto's you can rent from tommy's, MG-42s and Uzi's good luck!
Not anymore. Mandall's closed about 10 years ago.
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Old 08-01-2011, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deal View Post
A friend in AZ said you can often buy guns at garage sales there.

I wonder if that is true?

If so, and the OP found something he liked and purchased legally from a private party could he bring it into CA and do the online self registration with the DOJ?

I would just call them and ask, but it is late and perhaps someone already has this info.

Next, would it matter if it is a handgun that is legal in every way (mag limits, not a judge 410/45lc, ect...) but not on the roster?
Depends. If it works out that he is a resident of AZ per PCS orders, then yes - he follows AZ rules while he is an AZ resident.

Whether he has to register it with CA is dependent on why he comes back; if it's orders from .mil, then no.

The silly CA Roster does not apply to sales outside of CA and does not apply to handguns moved to CA.
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Old 08-11-2011, 8:17 PM
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Okay So i can tell you that my orders have me in Maryland for M6 school. I went to Ft Belivor and bought remington 870 express. I am now stuck trying to figure out how to get it home to california. I want to ship it home for family denfense. I also bought a gen 4 glock while i am here but was just going to carry it in my car home in feb. Any suggestion??? And M6 is an ASI for medics its the LVN/LPN school
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