DC v. Palmer (DC Carry) Update

[hoffmang]

A long time ago, in a land far, far away, Alan Gura, Tom Palmer, SAF and friends filed a complaint against DC about their complete ban on carrying a firearm. Specifically they filed on August 6, 2009, which is only a couple of months after we all filed the Sykes, now Richards complaint with them. Cross motions for summary judgement were filed in September of 2009 and oral argument on those motions in front of Judge Henry Kennedy took place in January of 2010.

18 months later... This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.

-Gene

[safewaysecurity]

wait.... John Roberts got to personally pick a judge to make a decision on Palmer? YES!!!! lol. Also the supplemental authority ezell thing only helps even more

[wildhawker]

<reserving this post until kcbrown gets here>

-Brandon

[Paladin]

Now I can go to sleep w/a BIG on my face!

[safewaysecurity]

Oh also how long is it going to take now? Are we going to have to go through oral arguments and the whole shebang again for the new judge or what?

[bulgron]

So is that a slap in the face when the Chief Justice takes a case away from you, or is it instead a non-judgemental reflection of the workload of an over-burdened judge?

[VegasND]

Can we become anxious to see a ruling or will this turn into another thread of 'two weeks' jokes?

[wildhawker]

Originally Posted by VegasND

Can we become anxious to see a ruling or will this turn into another thread of 'two weeks' jokes?

Two what?

[2009_gunner]

Amazing that it took the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS to do this. Ordinarily wouldn't this be handled by the Chief of the District Court?

So happy that Roberts is paying personal attention.

[kcbrown]

It's about time!

Looks like my skepticism about the judicial system as regards the possibility of judges just sitting on cases indefinitely may have been misplaced by at least a bit. So to whatever degree the system works better than I expected, I have to eat crow.

Maybe this gives us some indication as to an upper bound on how long a given case can languish in front of a stubborn anti-gun judge (18 months! ).


What I wonder, now, is where this particular case fits into the rest of the strategy, given the fact that it sat for much longer than we anticipated it would.


Note, too, that since it's been assigned to a new judge, I would think there's the possibility of additional oral arguments, since the new judge wasn't there during the original arguments and thus didn't get a chance to ask the questions he would have asked or make comments he would have made.

[nicki]

Just from what Gene wrote, it would appear that the US Supreme court is looking at the lower courts and how they are proceeding with 2nd amendment cases.

The fact that the Chief Justice stepped in and pulled a case that had been in "limbo" for 18 months shows that maybe Justice Roberts believes that "justice delayed" is "justice denied".

The issue is how long will the new judge drag things out. Hopefully the new judge will realize he got the case because the prior judge took way too long to rule on the Palmer Case.

Hopefully this is going to send a message through the whole federal judicary about playing stalling games on 2nd amendment cases.

Perhaps this is a preview to the lower courts that the right to "bear arms" is on the SCOTUS radar.

Nicki

[yellowfin]

Originally Posted by kcbrown

It's about time!

Looks like my skepticism about the judicial system as regards the possibility of judges just sitting on cases indefinitely may have been misplaced by at least a bit.

On the contrary, I'd say it means Justice Roberts agrees with your skepticism, so much so he did something about it.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

Happy, happy. Joy, joy.


The Raisuli

[HowardW56]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

A long time ago, in a land far, far away, Alan Gura, Tom Palmer, SAF and friends filed a complaint against DC about their complete ban on carrying a firearm. Specifically they filed on August 6, 2009, which is only a couple of months after we all filed the Sykes, now Richards complaint with them. Cross motions for summary judgement were filed in September of 2009 and oral argument on those motions in front of Judge Henry Kennedy took place in January of 2010.

18 months later... This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.

-Gene

Wow....

An added note... Judge Scullin was nominated by George H. W. Bush and sat on the FISA court....

[yellowfin]

Originally Posted by HowardW56

Wow....

An added note... Judge Scullin was nominated by George H. W. Bush

Unfortunately so was David Souter.

[OleCuss]

I'm not sure how much "pick and choose" there really is in such cases. And for all I know, Kennedy might have rendered a better decision.

But what I really like is that Ezell is being cited as an additional authority. To me that is quite important.

[ptoguy2002]

Maybe this will light a fire under the judge for Nordyke?

[putput]

It's Alive!

[OleCuss]

Originally Posted by ptoguy2002

Maybe this will light a fire under the judge for Nordyke?

Maybe I'm not up-to-date on Nordyke, but I think we're at the stage where we have a Nordyke decision and the Nordykes are asking for a re-hearing by the 3 judge panel or for an en banc hearing.

Once that is decided it may go back to a lower court or have further work at the circuit level. Wouldn't surprise me if the Nordykes dropped their current request and went for a SCOTUS appeal in the very near future using Ezell as one of the authorities.

[Crom]

It will be great to finally get this case moving.

[Andy Taylor]

Glad to see some movement.

[Purple K]

Cheers!

[Liberty1]

[Patrick-2]

Great news. Thanks for the info, Gene.

Were other gun cases also reassigned? Kachalsky?

EDIT:

Answer: No. The cases reassigned to the judge are from all over the map of the eastern USA. This is apparently the only 2A-related case.

"Senior Judge" means "retired judge who takes on cases from time to time", though ten cases is pretty deep for a part-time job. Having him pick up cases from multiple circuits is unusual and must speak to the backlog in the federal court system.

[Maestro Pistolero]

So to whatever degree the system works better than I expected, I have to eat crow.

At least we know there's a remedy for chronic procrastination.

[Pat Riot]

Any chance SCOTUS did this because of Williams, for some tactical reason?

[Connor P Price]

Its just a matter of time now.

[Liberty1]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Scullin

Judge Scullin, Colonel US Army Reserve, Ret. http://www.nynd.uscourts.gov/bios/fjs.htm

http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/nGetInfo?...=na&instate=na

[yellowfin]

I wonder if Justice Roberts and/or his staff read this site or MDShooters or NYShooters.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.

Am I correct in assuming the holding in Ezell should persuade Scullin that Palmer should go to "the top of the pile" of the 10 cases he has been assigned and be "fast tracked"? I assume this will be discussed during the chamber conference this Friday.

When will any "results" of the chamber conference be public?

[Untamed1972]

Maybe with the flood of 2A/carry cases being filed and SCOTUS knowing they're gonna be looking for cert.....some having already applied, they wanted to get that case moving since it was the or one of the first to be filed.....not to mention....perhaps like Heller, with DC being a federal enclave it makes the case easier to decide and then apply to the states the via McDonald.

[Patrick-2]

Originally Posted by Liberty1

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Scullin

Judge Scullin, Colonel US Army Reserve, Ret. http://www.nynd.uscourts.gov/bios/fjs.htm

http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/nGetInfo?...=na&instate=na

Army Ranger.

As for schedule, Gura all but threatened to file a Preliminary Injunction in the last paragraph of his Ezell Supplemental Authority Brief:

Plaintiffs here have not filed for a preliminary injunction, in part because the lack of factual disputes, and the discrete nature of the legal issues, rendered this case especially suitable for resolution by cross-dispositive motions. Indeed, the parties, and the Court, have proceeded on that basis. Nonetheless, the Seventh Circuit’s decision underscores the urgency of granting Plaintiffs relief.

I guess we'll know more about schedule after Friday. But I say go for the PI. Enough already.

[Southwest Chuck]

Originally Posted by Liberty1

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Scullin

Judge Scullin, Colonel US Army Reserve, Ret. http://www.nynd.uscourts.gov/bios/fjs.htm

http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/nGetInfo?...=na&instate=na

I like this quote from your second link....

Judge Scullin supervised numerous investigations and prosecutions in drug trafficking, organized crime, and -- most notably-- public corruption.

[Liberty1]

Originally Posted by Patrick-2

Army Ranger...

Take Liberty Hill, Ranger, and hold her until relieved!

[yellowfin]

Originally Posted by Patrick-2

As for schedule, Gura all but threatened to file a Preliminary Injunction in the last paragraph of his Ezell Supplemental Authority Brief:
I guess we'll know more about schedule after Friday. But I say go for the PI. Enough already.

In that case, the PI if granted would (as it should) instantly change a DC handgun purchase and home possession license into a DC carry license with no further process required, correct?

[Southwest Chuck]

I'm wondering if this was done due to Ezell in part, i.e. to forestall a PI motion from Gura and have the case decided on it's merits?

[bulgron]

The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....

[Maestro Pistolero]

Originally Posted by bulgron

The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....

Just remember who it was that decided to re-assign this case to Judge Scullin. Roberts is on our side.

[tiki]

Originally Posted by bulgron

The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....

And he's from New York.

[Big Ben]

Great news.

And to the first 10 or 12 folks that posted ... don't you ever sleep?