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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:39 PM
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Default DC v. Palmer (DC Carry) Update

A long time ago, in a land far, far away, Alan Gura, Tom Palmer, SAF and friends filed a complaint against DC about their complete ban on carrying a firearm. Specifically they filed on August 6, 2009, which is only a couple of months after we all filed the Sykes, now Richards complaint with them. Cross motions for summary judgement were filed in September of 2009 and oral argument on those motions in front of Judge Henry Kennedy took place in January of 2010.

18 months later... This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.

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Old 07-18-2011, 11:45 PM
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wait.... John Roberts got to personally pick a judge to make a decision on Palmer? YES!!!! lol. Also the supplemental authority ezell thing only helps even more
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:50 PM
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<reserving this post until kcbrown gets here>

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Old 07-18-2011, 11:52 PM
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Now I can go to sleep w/a BIG on my face!
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:59 PM
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Oh also how long is it going to take now? Are we going to have to go through oral arguments and the whole shebang again for the new judge or what?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:00 AM
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So is that a slap in the face when the Chief Justice takes a case away from you, or is it instead a non-judgemental reflection of the workload of an over-burdened judge?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:01 AM
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Can we become anxious to see a ruling or will this turn into another thread of 'two weeks' jokes?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:05 AM
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Can we become anxious to see a ruling or will this turn into another thread of 'two weeks' jokes?
Two what?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:24 AM
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Amazing that it took the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS to do this. Ordinarily wouldn't this be handled by the Chief of the District Court?

So happy that Roberts is paying personal attention.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:33 AM
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It's about time!

Looks like my skepticism about the judicial system as regards the possibility of judges just sitting on cases indefinitely may have been misplaced by at least a bit. So to whatever degree the system works better than I expected, I have to eat crow.

Maybe this gives us some indication as to an upper bound on how long a given case can languish in front of a stubborn anti-gun judge (18 months! ).


What I wonder, now, is where this particular case fits into the rest of the strategy, given the fact that it sat for much longer than we anticipated it would.


Note, too, that since it's been assigned to a new judge, I would think there's the possibility of additional oral arguments, since the new judge wasn't there during the original arguments and thus didn't get a chance to ask the questions he would have asked or make comments he would have made.
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Old 07-19-2011, 2:56 AM
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Default Need more info.

Just from what Gene wrote, it would appear that the US Supreme court is looking at the lower courts and how they are proceeding with 2nd amendment cases.

The fact that the Chief Justice stepped in and pulled a case that had been in "limbo" for 18 months shows that maybe Justice Roberts believes that "justice delayed" is "justice denied".

The issue is how long will the new judge drag things out. Hopefully the new judge will realize he got the case because the prior judge took way too long to rule on the Palmer Case.

Hopefully this is going to send a message through the whole federal judicary about playing stalling games on 2nd amendment cases.

Perhaps this is a preview to the lower courts that the right to "bear arms" is on the SCOTUS radar.

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Old 07-19-2011, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
It's about time!

Looks like my skepticism about the judicial system as regards the possibility of judges just sitting on cases indefinitely may have been misplaced by at least a bit.
On the contrary, I'd say it means Justice Roberts agrees with your skepticism, so much so he did something about it.
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Old 07-19-2011, 4:03 AM
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Old 07-19-2011, 4:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
A long time ago, in a land far, far away, Alan Gura, Tom Palmer, SAF and friends filed a complaint against DC about their complete ban on carrying a firearm. Specifically they filed on August 6, 2009, which is only a couple of months after we all filed the Sykes, now Richards complaint with them. Cross motions for summary judgement were filed in September of 2009 and oral argument on those motions in front of Judge Henry Kennedy took place in January of 2010.

18 months later... This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.

-Gene
Wow....

An added note... Judge Scullin was nominated by George H. W. Bush and sat on the FISA court....
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Old 07-19-2011, 4:26 AM
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Wow....

An added note... Judge Scullin was nominated by George H. W. Bush
Unfortunately so was David Souter.
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Old 07-19-2011, 4:36 AM
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I'm not sure how much "pick and choose" there really is in such cases. And for all I know, Kennedy might have rendered a better decision.

But what I really like is that Ezell is being cited as an additional authority. To me that is quite important.
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Old 07-19-2011, 4:50 AM
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Maybe this will light a fire under the judge for Nordyke?
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2011, 5:24 AM
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Old 07-19-2011, 5:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
Maybe this will light a fire under the judge for Nordyke?
Maybe I'm not up-to-date on Nordyke, but I think we're at the stage where we have a Nordyke decision and the Nordykes are asking for a re-hearing by the 3 judge panel or for an en banc hearing.

Once that is decided it may go back to a lower court or have further work at the circuit level. Wouldn't surprise me if the Nordykes dropped their current request and went for a SCOTUS appeal in the very near future using Ezell as one of the authorities.
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Old 07-19-2011, 5:50 AM
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It will be great to finally get this case moving.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:02 AM
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Glad to see some movement.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:13 AM
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Cheers!
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2011, 6:16 AM
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:27 AM
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Great news. Thanks for the info, Gene.

Were other gun cases also reassigned? Kachalsky?

EDIT:

Answer: No. The cases reassigned to the judge are from all over the map of the eastern USA. This is apparently the only 2A-related case.

"Senior Judge" means "retired judge who takes on cases from time to time", though ten cases is pretty deep for a part-time job. Having him pick up cases from multiple circuits is unusual and must speak to the backlog in the federal court system.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
So to whatever degree the system works better than I expected, I have to eat crow.
At least we know there's a remedy for chronic procrastination.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:44 AM
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Any chance SCOTUS did this because of Williams, for some tactical reason?
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:49 AM
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Its just a matter of time now.
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:50 AM
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Scullin

Judge Scullin, Colonel US Army Reserve, Ret. http://www.nynd.uscourts.gov/bios/fjs.htm

http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/nGetInfo?...=na&instate=na
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Old 07-19-2011, 6:51 AM
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I wonder if Justice Roberts and/or his staff read this site or MDShooters or NYShooters.
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This morning the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court reassigned Palmer v. DC to Senior Judge Frederick Scullin who is sitting in DC by designation from the 2nd Circuit District Court in New York. The next step is a chambers hearing July 22. Also today, Palmer et. al. filed a notice of supplemental authority based on Ezell.
Am I correct in assuming the holding in Ezell should persuade Scullin that Palmer should go to "the top of the pile" of the 10 cases he has been assigned and be "fast tracked"? I assume this will be discussed during the chamber conference this Friday.

When will any "results" of the chamber conference be public?

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Old 07-19-2011, 7:05 AM
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Maybe with the flood of 2A/carry cases being filed and SCOTUS knowing they're gonna be looking for cert.....some having already applied, they wanted to get that case moving since it was the or one of the first to be filed.....not to mention....perhaps like Heller, with DC being a federal enclave it makes the case easier to decide and then apply to the states the via McDonald.
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:10 AM
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Army Ranger.

As for schedule, Gura all but threatened to file a Preliminary Injunction in the last paragraph of his Ezell Supplemental Authority Brief:

Quote:
Plaintiffs here have not filed for a preliminary injunction, in part because the lack of factual disputes, and the discrete nature of the legal issues, rendered this case especially suitable for resolution by cross-dispositive motions. Indeed, the parties, and the Court, have proceeded on that basis. Nonetheless, the Seventh Circuit’s decision underscores the urgency of granting Plaintiffs relief.
I guess we'll know more about schedule after Friday. But I say go for the PI. Enough already.
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:22 AM
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I like this quote from your second link....

Quote:
Judge Scullin supervised numerous investigations and prosecutions in drug trafficking, organized crime, and -- most notably-- public corruption.
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:23 AM
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Army Ranger...
Take Liberty Hill, Ranger, and hold her until relieved!
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick-2 View Post
As for schedule, Gura all but threatened to file a Preliminary Injunction in the last paragraph of his Ezell Supplemental Authority Brief:
I guess we'll know more about schedule after Friday. But I say go for the PI. Enough already.
In that case, the PI if granted would (as it should) instantly change a DC handgun purchase and home possession license into a DC carry license with no further process required, correct?
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:46 AM
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I'm wondering if this was done due to Ezell in part, i.e. to forestall a PI motion from Gura and have the case decided on it's merits?
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:51 AM
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The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....
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Old 07-19-2011, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....
Just remember who it was that decided to re-assign this case to Judge Scullin. Roberts is on our side.
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  #39  
Old 07-19-2011, 8:14 AM
tiki tiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
The guy has been handed 10 cases to do. If he doesn't like the 2A, he could easily decide that Palmer will be the 10th case that he works on.

On the one hand, he was an Army Ranger and ex-military are often pro-gun. On the other hand, he was an officer, and officers sometimes think "the grunts" shouldn't be running around with guns outside of combat zones. He was also a prosecutor, and those guys have a way of painting the entire population in the same negative light as the criminals they pursue.

I'm am guardedly optimistic, but I'm not getting excited until I see forward progress on this case, as well as some evidence that this judge is actually on our side. I'd like to HOPE for him to be at least 2A neutral, but I'm discovering the federal judiciary tends not to be 2A neutral....
And he's from New York.
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Old 07-19-2011, 8:31 AM
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Great news.

And to the first 10 or 12 folks that posted ... don't you ever sleep?
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