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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:59 PM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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Default Need expert help on Picking right Optics Stag Arms Model 3

Hi Guys,

This will be my first AR (Stag Arms Model 3). I have pistols but first AR.

I will be using this gun at the range, up to 100 yards and another range up to 500 yards.

My question is besides a Magpul front and rear iron sight what optics would be best for range shooting mainly up to 100 yards. I'm torn between a red dot or scope.

Ideally i would like to get a red dot that can be magnified enough to make it possible to see where the target was hit at 100 yards. I don't know if a red dot will allow me to do that or not without magnification. Goal is also to keep it as light as possible and keep the weight down. I've seen Eo-tech option of red dot and scope for $1000+ but that is probably more than i need.

What do you guys recommend.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2011, 4:20 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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+1
I'm torn between the 2 myself. I've been looking at the Lucid HD7 for my model 1. It's cheap and I've heard a lot of good reviews. Might be picking one up by the end of this week.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379989
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2011, 8:54 AM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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I have been looking at the HD7 option with magnifier and after talking to David he states there is not enough room to mount both on the rear rail.

I also contacted Stag arms about mounting an optic on the front hand grip rail and they do not recommend it b/c it will throw off the sight b/c of slight movement so now im trying to figure out if this option is even feasible to run.
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2011, 9:09 PM
puddingskinz puddingskinz is offline
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You should check out the Vortex S.P.A.R.C. and magnifier. There very reasonable in price and built but may be a little heavy in comparison to aimpoint
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  #5  
Old 07-13-2011, 10:34 PM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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If you are going to run BUIS with a red dot and a magnifier you have a couple of options here..... I also have a stag model 3 (cant say enough good things about it you made a GREAT choice for your first AR) The only way you are going to be able to run a red dot such as an aimpoint, eotech or even an HD7 or any other one WITH a magnifier WITH BUIS is mounting the red dot on the front picitany rail (where the barrel is) and like the guy from Stag said he wouldn't recommend it, neither would I. There is slop there, not a lot, in fact just a little but when it comes to your optics you dont want ANY. I'm running an EoTech 517 with the Lucid 2x-5x magnifier and the ONLY way I would be able to mount the Eotech, Magnifier AND the BUIS (I also had the magpul ones) would to get some kind of rail riser for the very front ,for the BUIS, because the Model 3 has about a 1/4" dip in the front and my eotech would be mounted on the handguard. It is going to be hard to get a red dot AND magnifier AND MBUS on the top rail, you could do it with a shorter red dot, the 517 is the AA model so it kinda long but with the MBUS im thinking you would still have to put the red dot on the handrail which is not ideal.

Last edited by bigkyle72; 07-13-2011 at 10:38 PM..
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2011, 10:47 PM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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I have heard that MBUS are larger then other BUIS say troy so you might want to do some research on them to see if you can get a little extra clearance but they are double the price of MBUS
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2011, 11:00 PM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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As you can see in the picture i have the MBUS under the magnifier, i cant put the magnifier any further back because it will hit the MBUS when it swings to the side, and the eotech is as far back as it will go, the part that clamps on to the rail is actually in the gap between the upper and the barrel (which obviously is not good) the only other thing i could do is move it forward on to the handguard, again not good because of the slop. So i just said forget the MBUS, and ditched them. later on ill try to see if some other BUIS will work but at this point im not worried about it. The picture below is hoe i run it now.

Last thing, my 2 cents for the range you are looking at shooting it would be nice to have some sort of magnification, after 100 yards that targets starts getting REAL small. I really like the Lucid 2x-5x variable magnifier. I went with the eotech because of the 65 MOA ring for close quater combat and the 1 MOA dot for longer distances though i feel that for a $400-$500 optic the retical picture is a little "grainy" but it doesnt bother me and i shoot just fine with it. I have not used one but i hear great things about the Lucid HD7 and it has 4 different reticals you can choose from which is nice. also i would check out the vortex SPARK with their 3x mag. Both company have waterproof, shock proof, fog proof optics and their customer service i hear are both top notch so i dont see you going wrong with either of them for the price they offer their products at. you can also mis-match products, like get the HD7 and the vortex mag, or visa-versa. i am REALLY liking my Lucid 2x-5x magnifier, ill put pics below ( they are iphone pics so they kinda suck but you will get the paint and you could reach out to 500yds with it on 5x. If you are going to the higher end optics eotech and aimpoint both have outstanding optics.

Eotech Pros- True both eyes open operation, 65MOA ring with 1MOA dot in the middle, solid battle tested,
Eotech cons- for the money it is a little "grainy", battery life isnt what aim points are (aimpoints are CRAZY, though you still get ALOT of hours out of them and it has a low battery indicator so its not that big of a deal), price, high end optics are high-end and expect to shell out some money

Aimpoint Pros- Very clear solid 2 MOA red dot, loger battery life
Aimpoint Cons- Price, with a "tube design" it is much harder to use with both eyes open


I like the eotechs for the easy 65 MOA target acquisition in close quarters but if you are not doing any traning or do not plan on ever doing it i would choose the Aimpoint over the Eotech.

I do not know what your price range is but if you are just doing longer distance stuff at the range and what not i would seriously look into a Trijicon- they are amazing on AR-15's but they are up there as far as price goes, i mean UP THERE!

To Wrap it up, if you are looking at mid-priced optics, Vortex and Lucid i would have to say are your best bets here
Highend-close quater and Mid-Long distance, Winner: Eotech woth Magnifier
Highend-mid-long distance only, Winner: Aimpoint with a magnifier
High, High End (about $1000) Trijicon hands down really though if you use a highend reddot with a mid-highend magnifier you are looking at close to $1000 anyways, my set up with the eotech and lucid ran about $800. It all depends on your price range.

here are some pics of the magnifier.......
1X

2X

3X

4X

Last edited by bigkyle72; 07-13-2011 at 11:31 PM..
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  #8  
Old 07-13-2011, 11:32 PM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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5X




PS sorry about the pics, they are from my phone
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2011, 8:30 AM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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thanks for the great info

I decided to go with the model 2T after all b/c of the free float front rail. Ill look into the Vortex, it looks like a nice Red dot and I do like the size. The only thing i don't like is the battery option. I like eotech b/c of the fact it take a regular AA battery.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2011, 9:02 AM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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ya, i was going to get the 2T but it has a permeant front "A" sight and i wouldnt want to see it ALL the time. the vortex run 2354 batteries huh? Ya i dont like those. the lucid just use AAA which i really like. Over all i think if i had to do it over again i think i would run the whole Lucid set up, (wich says alot because i have an Eotech) with the reviews I've read and what i have seen with my magnifier im impressed, especially for the price. you can get the whole set up through globeflyer here on calguns and he gives you a coupon code to use in the check put that gives you a good discount.
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  #11  
Old 07-14-2011, 9:09 AM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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I talked to David, nice guy and killer deal on the Lucid stuff. I'm just hesitant b/c of where it was made. I figured aimpoint or eotech are proven and the more i read the more i see threads "pay now or later" so i decided to go with what people know works.

I'm going with the 2T simply b/c of the free float rail. I plan on getting a Gas block or running a flip front sight.

I was told at 100 yards 5x might not be good enough to see the holes in a paper target so i need to find out more info on this.

Id like to run a red dot with standard batteries but if i have no choice then 2354 or other will have to do.
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Old 07-14-2011, 9:29 AM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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ya then eotech would be my choice.
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2011, 9:34 AM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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I like the size of the aimpoint micro h-1 but i believe it is 4 MOA although their site has captions that state 1MOA at 100 yards so im a bit confused
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Old 07-14-2011, 9:40 AM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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i think what you are reading is the adjustment knobs, maybe 1MOA per click at 100 yds? im not sure what you are reading but that might be it
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Old 07-14-2011, 9:42 AM
bigkyle72 bigkyle72 is offline
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and i think with most aimpoints you have to buy a mount as well, sucks, i mean, $500 and NO MOUNT, WTF.
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Old 07-14-2011, 9:54 AM
killathrilla killathrilla is offline
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Dude....go with an acog...buy the one with the .223 bdr and at least 3x zoom. They r rock solid and designed to allow for both eyes open shooting. U will see the reticle both day and night as long as u get the dual illumination feature and not have to worry about electronics going bad. Im glad I bought mine!
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2011, 10:44 AM
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HK Dave HK Dave is offline
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Take a look at a 1-4x Scope like the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x or SWFA 1-4x.
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Old 07-14-2011, 3:11 PM
jetspeedz jetspeedz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkyle72 View Post
i think what you are reading is the adjustment knobs, maybe 1MOA per click at 100 yds? im not sure what you are reading but that might be it
This is the verbage on the site. But the product is listed as 4 MOA so is this a 4MOA at 100 yards or 1 MOA at 100 Yards, I would think a scope with this price would be 1MOA at 100 Yards. Am i correct to assume this?

1 MOA 30 mm at 100 meters 1 at 100 yards.

http://www.aimpoint.com/products/all...340&damcat=114
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Old 07-15-2011, 3:33 PM
krnrspd krnrspd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetspeedz View Post
This is the verbage on the site. But the product is listed as 4 MOA so is this a 4MOA at 100 yards or 1 MOA at 100 Yards, I would think a scope with this price would be 1MOA at 100 Yards. Am i correct to assume this?

1 MOA ˜ 30 mm at 100 meters ˜ 1” at 100 yards.

http://www.aimpoint.com/products/all...340&damcat=114
this is a reference note:
1 MOA ˜ 30 mm at 100 meters ˜ 1” at 100 yards.

the size of the dot is 4 moa for the micro. That means, after applying the reference notes information, @ ~100 yds the dot is roughly 4" in diameter.

basically the aimpoint micro's red dot is going to cover the entire bullseye on a 100 yard rifle target.

The Aimpoints, especially the micros are for CQB quick, idiot proof target acquisition.

You stated you want to shoot from 100 - 500 yards but what kind of shooting are you doing? Do you want to hit a man size target @ 500 yards with a quick target acquisition time or do you want to punch cloverleafs @ 500 yards.

@ 500 yards, that aimpoint micro dot isn't going to be very micro anymore. That dot is going to be 20" in diameter, so not only will you be able to see hits, but the dot will almost entirely cover a man sized target at that distance.

I have both an Eotech and an Acog TA31RCOA4. What's good about the eotech reticle is that has a 65 moa outer ring and a 1 moa dot @ the center. So for engagements out to 300 yards you can do some reasonable mental math.

example: eotech
@ 50 yds; ring = ~1/2 height of average man/girl
@ 100 yds; ring = ~ height of average man/girl
@ 200 yds; ring = ~ 2x heigh of average man/girl; so if a human sized target occupies the bottom of the ring to the dot they are 200 yards out (approximately)

call me old school, but I think most people should grab a google a2 carry handle sight and learn how to use the irons first. Which, when learned correctly can easily hit targets out to 300ms
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