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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:36 AM
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Default The CA Range Safe Mag Lock aka bullet tip magazine lock

All,

Let me introduce the California Range Safe Mag Lock. This is a bullet tip actuated magazine lock. I’ve got a post that discusses the legality of this magazine lock over in the 2A Forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45321.

Now, let me show you how it looks and how it works. First, here is what the three parts look like:


This base inserts into the magazine button depression. Not to scale but about .9 inches tall.


This screws onto the mil-spec magazine catch to retain the mil spec spring. Not to scale but about .2 inches tall.


This fits over the magazine latch with the Nut above on it. Two screws screw it into the base. Not to scale but about .2 inches tall.

To install it on a bare receiver, drop the base into the magazine latch hole. Place the mil-spec magazine catch into the usual place. Drop the mil-spec spring into the opening created in the base. Using the Nut, depress the spring and finger tighten. Once it becomes too difficult, you can use a wide blade flat head screw driver to tighten as far as you can. Then you place the cover over the catch Nut. Two screws (currently Philips but I may go hex) screw the cover into the base.

Now you have a .224” hole to place a round through. When you place a round or some other tool whose outside radius is .224” or smaller, you can depress the magazine latch, dropping the magazine from the AR.

I have my first physical prototypes coming shortly. A lucky few of you will get them to test on your lowers. As soon as I test them on enough lowers and make a modification or two, I’ll have theses available through the usual folks. This is likely to be a bit more expensive than the current magazine locks available, but much of that is due to its increased complexity.

I will be pursuing a DOJ approval letter, but everyone should realize that that will be an uphill battle. I have a plan to be able to get to a positive resolution with DOJ but it may take time and resources. Because of that I plan on applying an amount of the sale of each kit to a legal fund to get these approved. When the kit is approved and if there are funds left over I will earmark those funds for donation to California NRA in whatever manner they prefer.

I’ll announce final pricing, legal donation amount, and availability soon. I’m hoping to have these available to the general public by early March of 2007.

Please note:
1. DO NOT USE THESE WITH LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINES. To do so would be to illegally manufacture an assault weapon.
2. These are not yet approved by The California Department of Justice.
3. It would be wise to leave an empty magazine in your rifle when transporting it or not actually in the act of using the rifle as it is much easier to explain SB-23 compliance with a magazine fixed into the magazine well.

This is a much safer way to build an off list lower receiver based AR with a pistol grip and otherwise prohibited features. If your AR has a FTE or FTF, you can easily and legally remove the magazine with a tool and safely clear the rifle.

It’s safer - for the Children.

-Gene
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:37 AM
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:37 AM
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Hmmmmmm that looks excellent.

When are you expecting the first batch to be ready ?
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:42 AM
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Brilliant!!! I can't wait to get my hands on one of these.
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Last edited by Matt C; 01-01-2007 at 12:47 AM..
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:49 AM
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Extremely awesome, and it has given me an idea that I will post in another thread.

ETA: As promised, here is my idea for the Cal Guns Mag Lock Ring .

Last edited by DedEye; 01-01-2007 at 12:59 AM..
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:51 AM
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Put me on the list for one .
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:56 AM
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Do you plan to have this flush with the receiver like the SAS maglock? If so, will the nut need a special tool to fit in the slots? A flat head screw driver will only let it get so far before the screw driver hits the post of the mag catch. A modifed A2 front site tool may work to drive the nut farther.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:02 AM
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Plink,

This should stick up from the receiver in a way not dissimilar from the usual magazine button.

-Gene
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:07 AM
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Are you going to have a lottery for the prototypes?
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  #10  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:09 AM
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I think first come first served!
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang
Plink,

This should stick up from the receiver in a way not dissimilar from the usual magazine button.

-Gene
Sweet! Can't wait to see one in person.
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:13 AM
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Ok, Blackwater has a special place in my heart for his letter to Alison...

-Gene
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  #13  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:27 AM
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Talking

just to add, i am designing custom finger tips with a .224" diameter protrusion of about 1/4" in length.

this TOOL is meant to be worn over the middle finger and using it to depressed the release button, which is normally not ACCESSIBLE by human ADULT fingers.

this device, which will be called the FU_DOJ (patent pending) will be custom made to each user's middle finger.

it will be made out of carbon fiber and will be up to MIL SPEC standards (DOD-M-24672/5(SH)).

due to custom made features of the device, the turn-around time will be close to 7 weeks after the mold made by the customer is sent to our ISO 9001 factories in bangladesh or malaysia.

after a 72 hour burn-in session is complete and passed, only then, will the FU_DOJ will finally be sent out to the customer.

initial price will be in the $200-300 range. please visit our website at www.wwww.wwww.ww.www.w.com and using the secured PAYCRAP method for payment. at this time, we only accept DINERS CLUB credit card but we will be adding the major ones soon.

no returns of refunds due to the custom features of this TOOL. but for an early termination fee of $300, we will cancel your order and refund your payment, less 20% restocking fee.


a CAD drawing:
Attached Images
File Type: gif middle_finger2.GIF (3.7 KB, 487 views)
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Last edited by ldivinag; 01-01-2007 at 1:40 AM..
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  #14  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:28 AM
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LOL!

-Gene
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  #15  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:35 AM
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Prototypes needing to be tested, eh??
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  #16  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldivinag
a CAD drawing:
hahahaha!
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:48 AM
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Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! I'll take 2 dozen please!

Nate
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2007, 2:20 AM
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I would like to be a tester
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  #19  
Old 01-01-2007, 2:57 AM
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I guess I'd be willing to be a tester too and try it out for a while

Just send a couple my way and I'll tell you how they work out

Seriously though, I can't wait to buy one!
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2007, 4:06 AM
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cool idea. i like the ring with the bullet spike idea also.
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  #21  
Old 01-01-2007, 4:57 AM
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Gene, if this goes though - you will have filled an empty void in my heart. Your a wonderful person.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2007, 5:15 AM
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Sah-weet! Now I've got more options. Put me down for a couple kits!
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2007, 8:01 AM
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I will take one when in full production
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2007, 8:04 AM
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You will need to shorten the mag catch.
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2007, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang
If your AR has a FTE or FTF, you can easily and legally remove the magazine with a tool and safely clear the rifle.
Is this legal? I thought you could not remove the fixed mag even if you had a failure?

If this is the case then you just need to design a rifle that has a FTE on the last round in a mag and you can do a legal mag change:-)

Last edited by Dont Tread on Me; 01-01-2007 at 9:54 AM..
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2007, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_brit_05
Is this legal? I thought you could not remove the fixed mag even if you had a failure?

If this is the case then you just need to design a rfile that FTE on the last round and you can do a legal mag change:-)
With previous mag locks that is true because the rifle could accept a mag that can be removed again without a tool. But with a bullet tip mag lock, the rifle cannot accept a "detachable mag" even when the magwell is open and clear. For a rifle to be able to accept a "det mag", you would have to be able to put a mag in that you could get out without a tool. Since the rifle cannot accept a mag that can be removed without a tool, it is no longer a detachable mag rifle that is subject to AW rules. Got it?

I argued this fact about 2 months ago and everyone told me I was crazy.


MM
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2007, 9:55 AM
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MM - logic works for me!
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2007, 9:58 AM
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Monsterman. 2 weeks ago everyone was in the uber super secret mode.

This ideal has been brought up a few times by forward thinking indiviguals.
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  #29  
Old 01-01-2007, 10:22 AM
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Smile finger tool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldivinag
just to add, i am designing custom finger tips with a .224" diameter protrusion of about 1/4" in length.

this TOOL is meant to be worn over the middle finger and using it to depressed the release button, which is normally not ACCESSIBLE by human ADULT fingers.

this device, which will be called the FU_DOJ (patent pending) will be custom made to each user's middle finger.

it will be made out of carbon fiber and will be up to MIL SPEC standards (DOD-M-24672/5(SH)).

due to custom made features of the device, the turn-around time will be close to 7 weeks after the mold made by the customer is sent to our ISO 9001 factories in bangladesh or malaysia.

after a 72 hour burn-in session is complete and passed, only then, will the FU_DOJ will finally be sent out to the customer.

initial price will be in the $200-300 range. please visit our website at www.wwww.wwww.ww.www.w.com and using the secured PAYCRAP method for payment. at this time, we only accept DINERS CLUB credit card but we will be adding the major ones soon.

no returns of refunds due to the custom features of this TOOL. but for an early termination fee of $300, we will cancel your order and refund your payment, less 20% restocking fee.


a CAD drawing:
ha ha ha ah Happy new year
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  #30  
Old 01-01-2007, 10:24 AM
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looks like im now holding off on buying those handfull of maglocks.
These look like they are going to be the ones to go with - absolutely great idea
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  #31  
Old 01-01-2007, 11:34 AM
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Count me in on atleast one.
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  #32  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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stator,

I've particularly designed this so that you can use the standard mag catch without shortening it. That's why it sticks out of the rifle a bit. You can visualize it by looking at where the head of the mag catch threaded part is in your Prince-50 equipped rifle. Basically, this shrouds the mag latch and allows you to press on it through the cover.

-Gene
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  #33  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMan
I argued this fact about 2 months ago and everyone told me I was crazy.
My friend John argued this in April and was told the same thing:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=32138
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  #34  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe
My friend John argued this in April and was told the same thing:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=32138
Obviously, I was one of the ones that thought he insane as well...but I realized soon after that I was putting too much consideration in to the "open" magwell itself and not the status of the magazine.

Last edited by blacklisted; 01-01-2007 at 1:32 PM..
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  #35  
Old 01-01-2007, 1:32 PM
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I had tried to give credit to the guys who had noticed this too. I certainly wasn't the first. However, I think the brainstorm around the word "attachable" is the key to understanding this.

And we all have the DOJ's proposed Rulemaking to thank for really making me think about it. Thanks DOJ!

-Gene
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  #36  
Old 01-01-2007, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang
I had tried to give credit to the guys who had noticed this too. I certainly wasn't the first. However, I think the brainstorm around the word "attachable" is the key to understanding this.

And we all have the DOJ's proposed Rulemaking to thank for really making me think about it. Thanks DOJ!

-Gene
So we have DOJ's proposed rulmaking to thank for catching you up to speed with the few dozen other people that posted about this early last year?

Last year, it really cracked me up when some of the same people that were instrumental in "pushing the boundaries" to get the OLLs in state, were so vehemently against "pushing the boundaries" with the bullet tip mag release. And now a year later, this bullet tip mag release talk that was previously publicly posted was brought back as part of those same groups big 1/1/2007 secret. Not meaning to pee on your parade, but for all the hype, the "big secret" things mentioned to date are a bit of a letdown.

I hope you have good luck getting it the mag release to market. The design looks like it should work. I remember in some of those other threads, there were concerns about the mag being able to pop out, if you beat on the AR with enough force. I guess their point was about the amount of force required to overcome the spring tension. I don't think it's a valid issue, it would require a tool of some sort to cause that. But it is probably worth discussion, at least.
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  #37  
Old 01-01-2007, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMan
I argued this fact about 2 months ago and everyone told me I was crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe
My friend John argued this in April and was told the same thing:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=32138
But 2 months before that, YOU(xenophobe) were telling people they were crazy for thinking about it, even if it was legal.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=28442
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  #38  
Old 01-01-2007, 3:02 PM
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I argued for this back in february http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=28304
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  #39  
Old 01-01-2007, 3:25 PM
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Ok...I still don't get what you guys are trying to say but...sign me up for one!
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  #40  
Old 01-01-2007, 3:41 PM
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TheMan,

Lots of people intuited it and argued about it, but what was and still is to some extent missing was the legal basis to back it up. Announcing these is only the beginning.

Also, there is a significant new change. AB-2728 lowers the risks of pushing this line.

-Gene
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