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  #1  
Old 07-05-2011, 3:18 AM
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Default Crickett "Pack Rifle Kit" Conversion

Back in December I started a thread about the "Pack Rifle - 16oz Rimfire"...

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=372340

While checking out some backpacking websites...I found THIS...



It can be found here:
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/PRK.html

Specifications:

Weight: 15oz for complete converted rifle.
Over all length: 32 inches
Take down length: 20 inches
Length of pull: 13-5/8"
Caliber: 22LR, 22 WMR is coming, we are shooting one right now.
Sights: Stock Cricket Peep sights, with elevation and windage.
Action: Single shot bolt action.
Price: $275


PRK=Pack Rifle Kit. The PRK is a carbon fiber based kit, that turns a Crickett youth rifle into a very light weight, take down rifle. The PRK replaces the barrel and stock of the Crickett rifle with light weight carbon fiber alternatives. The PRK shaves 1lbs 10oz out of the stock Crickett rifle, bringing the total weight of a kitted Crickrett down to 15oz. The barrel is constructed of a carbon fiber outer, with aluminum components joining the carbon fiber outer to the high quality, Cro-Moly steel, button rifled barrel liner. The carbon fiber stock is simple, and functional, it is made up of carbon fiber and aluminum tubing. The stock is quickly and easily removed with a thumb screw, for compact storage and packing. The carbon fiber stock is hollow with an ID of .875"X 11" deep, for storage. The cap for this compartment has a built in liquid filled compass. The PRK stock has a 13-5/8" trigger pull for adult frames. We recommend having a gun smith install the PRK, but for those of you that are mechanically inclined, it is relatively simple. This is a kit that consists of a barrel and a stock, it is not a complete rifle. You have to provide a Crickett rifle to put this kit on.
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Old 07-05-2011, 3:39 AM
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That's actually kind of neat. Would be interesting to see some videos.
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Old 07-05-2011, 6:03 AM
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Been done. I own a Marlin Papoose and a Henry Mini Bolt. Mini bolt stock comes off with one screw, slotted so a dime will work to take it out.

This stock looks awkward and appears to have limited storage space in it? I'm planning on converting both of mine to have storage in the Butt stock like a AR 7...
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Old 07-05-2011, 9:04 AM
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$275 for a carbon tube with an aluminum mounting sleeve inserted? Forget it. I'm all for the little guy making a buck, but not at the expense of being raped by greed. I'll make my own for $10.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudakidd View Post
Been done. I own a Marlin Papoose and a Henry Mini Bolt. Mini bolt stock comes off with one screw, slotted so a dime will work to take it out.

This stock looks awkward and appears to have limited storage space in it? I'm planning on converting both of mine to have storage in the Butt stock like a AR 7...
Do either of those rifles weigh less than 16 oz?

The crickett is a lightweight rifle...but shaving 1 pound 10 oz is significant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
$275 for a carbon tube with an aluminum mounting sleeve inserted? Forget it. I'm all for the little guy making a buck, but not at the expense of being raped by greed. I'll make my own for $10.
The design is targeted towards the Ultralight backpacking/hiking crowd. These are people who will spend 300 dollars for a tent that weighs 8 oz, is made of organic material, and was made by a buddhist monk that lives on the Northeast Route of Mount Everest in a secret cave. Just look at the other things being sold on the website. Not exactly cheap (at least by my standards).

Some guys don't carry toilet paper on their multi-day trips. They wipe with their hands. This saves them a few ounces.

They are like the most hardcore calgunner tacticool mall-ninja gear head...but with super duper ultralight hiking gear...

And having the most lightweight/compact rifle (made of Carbon Fiber!?) makes these guys very happy.

I would buy one for the "Cool Factor". Is it expensive? Maybe. Some folks spend lots of money on things other people think is stupid...
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2011, 8:22 PM
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Oh no....looks like my daughter's rifle is getting a new look
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2011, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagump View Post
Take down length: 20 inches


Sooo... It looks like with the stock folded up it's still possible to shoot it. With a folded length of 20 inches, wouldn't that create an SBR under CA law? Since the feds measure at it's longest config, you'd be okay, but CA measures it's shortest config.
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Old 07-08-2011, 9:40 PM
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Take the firing pin out...or remove bolt..
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
Take the firing pin out...or remove bolt..
That wouldn't be enough. Even if the stock was extended completely while the rifle is configured to fire, unless it's pinned, it is still an sbr by California standards.
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Old 07-09-2011, 1:00 PM
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That wouldn't be enough. Even if the stock was extended completely while the rifle is configured to fire, unless it's pinned, it is still an sbr by California standards.
Yep. California may not have constructive possession laws for AW's, but they do for NFA firearms. For it to not be an SBR in CA, it would have to have some sort of interrupter that doesn't allow the firearm to fire when it's folded.

The SU-16CA cannot be fired when folded. Takedowns like the Henry Survival and Papoose remove the ability to fire in it's shortest configs as the barrels are completely removed from the receivers.
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Old 07-09-2011, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
$275 for a carbon tube with an aluminum mounting sleeve inserted? Forget it. I'm all for the little guy making a buck, but not at the expense of being raped by greed. I'll make my own for $10.
Not just a carbon stock but a replacement barrel too.

"The barrel is constructed of a carbon fiber outer, with aluminum components joining the carbon fiber outer to the high quality, Cro-Moly steel, button rifled barrel liner"
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  #12  
Old 07-09-2011, 7:38 PM
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Okay, but here's the thing about the SBR status of the takedown conversion:

It doesn't change the length of the rifle!


It appears that the fire control parts of the rifle are attached to the receiver. If this is the case, and the trigger guard is the only part that's attached to the stock itself, then the Crickett rifle out of the box has a 20" length in its shortest fireable configuration. Wouldn't that make it an SBR straight from the manufacturer, as far as CA is concerned?
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Okay, but here's the thing about the SBR status of the takedown conversion:

It doesn't change the length of the rifle!


It appears that the fire control parts of the rifle are attached to the receiver. If this is the case, and the trigger guard is the only part that's attached to the stock itself, then the Crickett rifle out of the box has a 20" length in its shortest fireable configuration. Wouldn't that make it an SBR straight from the manufacturer, as far as CA is concerned?
No because it is attached to the stock and it meets the OAL of 30+ inches it is like a AK that has a folding stock you screw on a 5.25 muzzle break and your good to go!
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Old 07-10-2011, 2:05 AM
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Pretty sure you would have to pin it, or its not gonna pass.

It's also terribly ugly and expensive.
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Old 07-10-2011, 7:19 AM
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Originally Posted by killmime1234 View Post
That wouldn't be enough. Even if the stock was extended completely while the rifle is configured to fire, unless it's pinned, it is still an sbr by California standards.


I hate Commiefornia..............
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Old 07-10-2011, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mtsul View Post
No because it is attached to the stock and it meets the OAL of 30+ inches it is like a AK that has a folding stock you screw on a 5.25 muzzle break and your good to go!
You do realize that, in CA, an AK with a folding stock must be permanently pinned in the unfolded position if when folded it is less than 30", correct?

That is to say that, as it has been mentioned before, OAL requirements in CA are measured with the rifle in it's shortest possible firing configuration.

I'm not chastising, I just want to make sure I didn't misunderstand your post.
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Old 07-10-2011, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Okay, but here's the thing about the SBR status of the takedown conversion:

It doesn't change the length of the rifle!


It appears that the fire control parts of the rifle are attached to the receiver. If this is the case, and the trigger guard is the only part that's attached to the stock itself, then the Crickett rifle out of the box has a 20" length in its shortest fireable configuration. Wouldn't that make it an SBR straight from the manufacturer, as far as CA is concerned?
I wasn't 100% sure, so I posted it in the SBR/SBS/AOW thread as ke6guj is the resident NFA authority. His response was that he felt it would be an SBR under CA law.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=954
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Old 07-10-2011, 8:33 AM
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I have a simple soulution! make the stock long enough to cover the trigger when its folded. now it cant be fired in its folded position. DR
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Old 07-10-2011, 8:45 AM
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looking at it again, I would just add a couple of holes into the middle of the stock. that would cover the trigger and would add some suport to keep the end of the bolt and trigger from being damaged in packing. I think its a cool idea. folded up I could put it in a fishing rod case easily. and still have room for other esentials like ammo, knife , fire starter, etc. DR
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Old 07-10-2011, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Okay, but here's the thing about the SBR status of the takedown conversion:

It doesn't change the length of the rifle!


It appears that the fire control parts of the rifle are attached to the receiver. If this is the case, and the trigger guard is the only part that's attached to the stock itself, then the Crickett rifle out of the box has a 20" length in its shortest fireable configuration. Wouldn't that make it an SBR straight from the manufacturer, as far as CA is concerned?
I would opine that a stock cricket would be looked at with its stock attached, in its normal configuration. the fact that you could use tools to shorten the rifle shouldn't matter. otherwise, just about every rifle or shotgun could be considered an SBR/SBS if it could still be fired when the stock is removed with tools.

With the pack rifle version, the fact that it doesn't require tools to shorten it below 26" might be the difference.
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Old 07-10-2011, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
I would opine that a stock cricket would be looked at with its stock attached, in its normal configuration. the fact that you could use tools to shorten the rifle shouldn't matter. otherwise, just about every rifle or shotgun could be considered an SBR/SBS if it could still be fired when the stock is removed with tools.

With the pack rifle version, the fact that it doesn't require tools to shorten it below 26" might be the difference.

It's defensible, certainly, but the problem is that once you take it out of the stock for whatever reason - say you're trying to detail-strip it, or you want to upgrade the trigger or something - you've created something which is an SBR in California, since now it doesn't meet the length requirement, and it's still classed as a long arm.

In fact, I would submit that, based on a reading of the statute and its inclusion of constructive possession, it would probably not be a good idea even to keep a screwdriver near your Crickett.


... alternatively, this could be a way to attack the CA SBR prohibition, since this is an arm which is in common use in the rest of the country ... Just need a sympathetic defendant. One who's about 6 years old, maybe ...
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Old 07-10-2011, 5:15 PM
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Thats what I'm thinking. Arn't most bolt actions, say a Rem 700, with 16" barrels able to fire and underlength with the stock off? Same for a 10/22 with the stock off.
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
I would opine that a stock cricket would be looked at with its stock attached, in its normal configuration. the fact that you could use tools to shorten the rifle shouldn't matter. otherwise, just about every rifle or shotgun could be considered an SBR/SBS if it could still be fired when the stock is removed with tools.

With the pack rifle version, the fact that it doesn't require tools to shorten it below 26" might be the difference.
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Old 07-10-2011, 5:23 PM
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But then it is no longer a shoulder-fired firearm.
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Old 07-10-2011, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
Thats what I'm thinking. Arn't most bolt actions, say a Rem 700, with 16" barrels able to fire and underlength with the stock off? Same for a 10/22 with the stock off.
I would argue that with the stock completely removed, the rifle is not able to be fired because there is no place to hold it without risk of burning your hands or injuring yourself from the recoil. With the PRK stock folded on the Cricket, you still have something to grasp without the risk of burning your hand or the recoil injuring you.

There has to be a good reason Kel-Tec, Henry and Marlin all made their takedowns/collapsible rifles unable to fire while folded up.
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Old 07-10-2011, 5:47 PM
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I guess it boils down to the definition of "folded." As i see it, the stock was simply bolted back on backwards. Not folded or collapsed as is typical with a folder or telescopic stock the doesnt require total dissasembly.
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I would argue that with the stock completely removed, the rifle is not able to be fired because there is no place to hold it without risk of burning your hands or injuring yourself from the recoil. With the PRK stock folded on the Cricket, you still have something to grasp without the risk of burning your hand or the recoil injuring you.

There has to be a good reason Kel-Tec, Henry and Marlin all made their takedowns/collapsible rifles unable to fire while folded up.
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