Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:00 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Only bullseye targets allowed - against 1a / 2a?

What do you guys think:

Would a government owned shooting range, open to the public, but banning targets that are not bullseye (no terrorist, zombie, animal, or human shaped targets authorized) be a violation of the 1A or 2A? They allow police and government agencies to shoot at them, and also IPSC / IDPA etc., but the general public can not shoot. I'm wondering how far the right to train and educate goes into a public shooting area, as well as equal treatment. The previous reasoning is that they don't want people shooting at human like targets because of violence.

-- There are not options to go to 'other' ranges. There is one, and only one, range available for non-profits to instruct at.
-- This range is operated by the City and County of Honolulu
-- Here is a crazy thought: What if gun ranges were allowed, but all the things you could shoot at were prohibited? I wonder if that could be some shady sidestep that could be pulled on us.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-30-2011 at 12:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:05 PM
ZombieTactics's Avatar
ZombieTactics ZombieTactics is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Roseville area, or wherever they pay my confiscatory rates for things only I know how to do (lol)
Posts: 3,684
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I can't see how.
__________________
|

I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective.

Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:11 PM
Paul S's Avatar
Paul S Paul S is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 1,786
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Their range...their rules....I shoot at a range which does not allow targets which have been made at home on your computer. Bring your own regular targets or buy theirs.

What targets are allowed at the range do not seem to me to be a First Amendment issue...nor have anything to do with the Second Amendment.

My opinion plus $1.75 gets you a cup of coffee at Denney's.
__________________
Paul S
“Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed.” - Collection of Quotes - Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

Last edited by Paul S; 06-29-2011 at 8:15 PM.. Reason: Spelling correction
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:26 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

added some different information that might ellicit different answers; is that a public range paul? One operated by your city and county government?

I would consider shooting pictures of terrorists, or say the brady campaign little girl target, to be expressive in nature. I also wondered how and if the recent decision on basically shooting down prohibitions on violence might play into it.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-29-2011 at 8:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:33 PM
oni.dori oni.dori is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,007
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

It souns to me that, since they are government run, they are just trying to be "PC". It is kind of lame, but I don't see how it would really be able to be considered violating anyones rights (at least in a court of law).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 383green View Post
Stockpiling ammunition is like investing in a 401k that allows you to make withdrawals in the form of kinetic energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
I will NOT be a part of a civil rights movement which contains its own version of "P.C."
5-23-11 The day the Sleeping Giant awoke.

"...What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?"
-A. Scalia 2005
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:38 PM
Ubermcoupe's Avatar
Ubermcoupe Ubermcoupe is offline
★ Junior G Man ✈
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: This information has been redacted in accordance with Title 18 USC Section 798
Posts: 12,822
iTrader: 53 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

You could challenge the human targets thing, would you win? no idea.

Sadly I think it would go like: "you don't like the rules, find somewhere else..."

I'd try a different range??

In fact I don't prefer paper. I prefer cans, bowling pins, steel plates, and mannequins
__________________
Hauoli Makahiki Hou


-------
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:42 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

We only have one public shooting facility on the island, so sadly, we can't just move along. What is really funny is that we can't even shoot pistols here at our public range without comitting a felony offense, but that is a different topic.

Additionally, even if we wanted to switch, there are only two other "private" ranges that are on the island. In one the owner doesn't allow us to instruct there as it takes away from his "firearm safety classes", not to mention the hourly fee's or the 26.00 he charges for a box of .40 caliber ammo (markups present on all his products). The other is prohibited by their leasing company from allowing firearms to be transported on their property. Basically we can't bring guns into their store. Laws prohibit us from just going out somewhere and shooting so its a huge headache.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-29-2011 at 8:47 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:44 PM
Turo's Avatar
Turo Turo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SLO + Tulare
Posts: 5,059
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I've never seen a government owned/run range, at least in CA, but I'd say that there's pretty good case law that would protect the average citizen in this situation. Then again, someone could claim that you are advocating violence against a specific person if the target was a picture of someone specific. I'm thinking they'd pull the "advocating violence" card if your target was a picture of the current president, or someone else in a high office.
If it were up to me, it would be a pretty cut and dry case of free speech/expression for an American to use whatever image he/she wanted as a target, up to and including a photo of a president or the American flag. I may not agree with the statement, but they have every right to say it.

ETA: I didn't get a chance to read the post right above mine before I posted. I didn't know you were in HI, but I would assume 1A rights still exist there.
__________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
-Thomas Jefferson

Check me out on YouTube! Shooting, Engineering, and Dogs. What's not to love?

Last edited by Turo; 06-29-2011 at 8:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:00 PM
scarville's Avatar
scarville scarville is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 2,306
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

"Their range; their rules" applies to private property. If it is government owned and operated then it is publically owned property and -- in theory -- the managment is limited by the same Constitution the rest of the government has to is supposed to obey.

I have no idea whether that means more than seagull guano in Hawaii.
__________________
Politicians and criminals are moral twins separated only by legal fiction.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:07 PM
Briancnelson's Avatar
Briancnelson Briancnelson is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Culver City, CA
Posts: 699
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Government owned means the 1st and 2nd amendment apply. I don't see how it would affect the 2nd amendment, since it does not infringe the right to bear arms, but rather, the right to shoot a specific target. You can get in perfectly good practice with a bullseye target.

Conduct can constitute speech, but speech can be subject to time, place and manner regulations. Whether or not shooting a target of a generic outline, or a terrorist, or a political figure, or a recognizable person, can be seen as protected speech conduct would be a case of first impression so far as I know.

I honestly don't know where the courts would come down on that one ultimately.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:11 PM
advocatusdiaboli's Avatar
advocatusdiaboli advocatusdiaboli is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rural Central California
Posts: 5,330
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
We only have one public shooting facility on the island, so sadly, we can't just move along. What is really funny is that we can't even shoot pistols here at our public range without comitting a felony offense, but that is a different topic.

Additionally, even if we wanted to switch, there are only two other "private" ranges that are on the island. In one the owner doesn't allow us to instruct there as it takes away from his "firearm safety classes", not to mention the hourly fee's or the 26.00 he charges for a box of .40 caliber ammo (markups present on all his products). The other is prohibited by their leasing company from allowing firearms to be transported on their property. Basically we can't bring guns into their store. Laws prohibit us from just going out somewhere and shooting so its a huge headache.
Capitalism without any of the socialist equality and fairness BS. You like it remember? Why the long face then? Oh, yeah, right, when the guy profiting isn't you, THEN it's an issue right? Proof that the real debate is about selfishness on both sides of it: capitalism and socialism.

BTW, my private club doesn't allow human targets either. To avoid costly lawsuits and harassment which would only raise club costs and dues. You know LCAV would love to take clandestine pics and post them on the internet with captions like "rabid gun killers" don't you? I can do without them.

Oh, and JKG said it best...

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

~John Kenneth Galbraith
__________________
Benefactor Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran


Not wasting any more time and energy tilting, Don Quixote-like, on a regulatory problem that, constitutionally, should not even exist in a free state.
I cannot change the world unlike my hero Samuel Adams—but I can change my place in it.
Gone fishin' for now and soon gone from California.

Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 06-29-2011 at 9:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:23 PM
oni.dori oni.dori is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,007
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
We only have one..What is really funny is that we can't even shoot pistols here at our public range without comitting a felony offense, but that is a different topic...Laws prohibit us from just going out somewhere and shooting so its a huge headache.

Ok, I'm pretty sure THAT violates some rights there, especially since Heller and McDonald.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 383green View Post
Stockpiling ammunition is like investing in a 401k that allows you to make withdrawals in the form of kinetic energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
I will NOT be a part of a civil rights movement which contains its own version of "P.C."
5-23-11 The day the Sleeping Giant awoke.

"...What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?"
-A. Scalia 2005
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:32 PM
fiddletown's Avatar
fiddletown fiddletown is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 3,664
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
What do you guys think:

Would a government owned shooting range, open to the public, but banning targets that are not bullseye (no terrorist, zombie, animal, or human shaped targets authorized) be a violation of the 1A or 2A? ...
The only answer to that question that matters would have to come from a court. The courts are open for business.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-29-2011, 9:51 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Capitalism without any of the socialist equality and fairness BS. You like it remember? Why the long face then? Oh, yeah, right, when the guy profiting isn't you, THEN it's an issue right? Proof that the real debate is about selfishness on both sides of it: capitalism and socialism.

BTW, my private club doesn't allow human targets either. To avoid costly lawsuits and harassment which would only raise club costs and dues. You know LCAV would love to take clandestine pics and post them on the internet with captions like "rabid gun killers" don't you? I can do without them.

Oh, and JKG said it best...

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

~John Kenneth Galbraith

I'm pretty sure you missed the entire main point of the thread. I don't make ANYTHING teaching, I teach for a non-profit... where is your capitalism in that? My instructors volunteer their time, money, and guns. We just started reimbursing for fuel and cleaning expenses. It wouldn't matter if this guys prices were jacked up, he doesn't let us instruct there. The point of that statement was to demonstrate to the previous poster that we do not have 'options' to go to 'other' ranges.

If there are NRA Training counselors viewing the thread, I was pretty sure that Personal Protection courses require outline targets.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-29-2011 at 9:57 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:09 PM
advocatusdiaboli's Avatar
advocatusdiaboli advocatusdiaboli is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rural Central California
Posts: 5,330
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
I'm pretty sure you missed the entire main point of the thread.
NO I didn't at all. You don't like things to cost you more than you'd like to pay. Well, welcome to the club. No one does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
The point of that statement was to demonstrate to the previous poster that we do not have 'options' to go to 'other' ranges.
You do have choices. You can travel off the island then. You just don't like the costs.
__________________
Benefactor Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran


Not wasting any more time and energy tilting, Don Quixote-like, on a regulatory problem that, constitutionally, should not even exist in a free state.
I cannot change the world unlike my hero Samuel Adams—but I can change my place in it.
Gone fishin' for now and soon gone from California.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:38 PM
Paul S's Avatar
Paul S Paul S is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 1,786
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
added some different information that might ellicit different answers; is that a public range paul? One operated by your city and county government?

I would consider shooting pictures of terrorists, or say the brady campaign little girl target, to be expressive in nature. I also wondered how and if the recent decision on basically shooting down prohibitions on violence might play into it.
No sir. The range I am speaking of is a commercial facility, firearms sales center and also provides additional training venues for Law Enforcement. It is a well run facility and I have found all the employees to be just super.

Our other local range North of town in the foothills doesn't have any rules on the paper targets. It does however frown on water jugs, soda cans etc.

And our Sheriff's department range (I can shoot there too since I'm a retired C/O) does not care what's printed on the paper target...unless it happened to be a picture of the High Sheriff and then I think they'd frown on that.
__________________
Paul S
“Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed.” - Collection of Quotes - Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:44 PM
smarter's Avatar
smarter smarter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 4o8
Posts: 526
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Same rules apply at a county owned and operated gun range here in San Jose. Only bull eye targets only unless your LEO/Mil. Sucks for those of us trying to practice with IPSC targets.
__________________
"In defense of the principles of the free world." -Unknown

“The more you train in peace, the less you bleed in war.” -Howard Wadsin
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:57 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
NO I didn't at all. You don't like things to cost you more than you'd like to pay. Well, welcome to the club. No one does.


You do have choices. You can travel off the island then. You just don't like the costs.
What the hell are you talking about costs lol? Additionally, your statement of travel sounds very similar logic and reasoning that the City of Chicago is utilizing to attempt to ban shooting ranges in their city. I mean Ezell could just go somewhere else right -- like to another county or state? Go troll somewhere else man.

This thread isn't about costs, it's about whether or not targets and their use could be considered expressive in nature; if courses require different targets, but you can't use, thus restricting training, would that be considered view point discrimination; and if "Leo/Mil" and orgainzations can utilize the same targets, in a public facility, but the public can't, does or could that violate equal application of laws and regulations. Could we be regulated out of things we can shoot at?

Here is a crazy thought: What if gun ranges were allowed, but all the things you could shoot at were prohibited? I wonder if that could be some shady sidestep that could be pulled on us.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-30-2011 at 12:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:10 PM
mag360 mag360 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 5,037
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

haha exactly like chicagos lawyer. "umm, yea, well they can travel outside of the cty to train"

judge "you aren't getting this, what if chicago had a rule requiring journalists to travel to get training"

"chicago doesn't have a restriction like that"

judge "exactly!"

haha what a great case.

anyways that is some stupid bs, no issues in sac with "bad guy" targets.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:36 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake County
Posts: 14,891
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
What the hell are you talking about costs lol? Additionally, your statement of travel sounds very similar logic and reasoning that the City of Chicago is utilizing to attempt to ban shooting ranges in their city. I mean Ezell could just go somewhere else right -- like to another county or state? What if I wasn't allowed to have *any* targets. I mean you can still shoot and train without using any targets - right?

This thread isn't about costs, it's about whether or not targets and their use could be considered expressive in nature; if courses require different targets, but you can't use, thus restricting training, would that be considered view point discrimination; and if "Leo/Mil" and orgainzations can utilize the same targets, in a public facility, but the public can't, does or could that violate equal application of laws and regulations.

Go troll somewhere else man.
OK question. Where do all the people shoot that go to the automatic gun ranges that are advertised by street vendors in waikiki? Very curious cause it seems like they target Japanese tourists!

My kid goes to UH Manoa so i am somewhat familiar with whats going on there. I don't think you can make a case for the type of target you use at the public range. I don't see how it can be a 1A issue because you are not making a statement. You are using a picture or diagram to shoot at. Does it really matter what your target looks like at the range as long as you are grouping your rounds? It may very well be a 1A issue if your were arrested for walking around with a human like target on your shirt because you were advocating the 2A. IANAL but this is the way i see it.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:55 PM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
OK question. Where do all the people shoot that go to the automatic gun ranges that are advertised by street vendors in waikiki? Very curious cause it seems like they target Japanese tourists!

My kid goes to UH Manoa so i am somewhat familiar with whats going on there. I don't think you can make a case for the type of target you use at the public range. I don't see how it can be a 1A issue because you are not making a statement. You are using a picture or diagram to shoot at. Does it really matter what your target looks like at the range as long as you are grouping your rounds? It may very well be a 1A issue if your were arrested for walking around with a human like target on your shirt because you were advocating the 2A. IANAL but this is the way i see it.
The places you go to "rent" guns are our shooting galleries. They don't teach our permit to acquire course. Another big issue is that Bishop Estates (the ones that own most of waikiki) won't let us or them carry guns through, on, or about their property. So the public can't train there. If we were to shoot there we would have to use their guns, their ammo, their targets, their employees etc. Those tourists pay crazzzzzy prices (I think its like 125 bucks for 5 guns and 50 rounds)!

In regards to targets:

Targets really do matter, which is why LEO and MIL do not train on bullseye targets. I've learned to utilize reference points for shot placement, and feel it is really effective way of judging your shots. Using the Ears, throat, armpits is pretty effective for aiming areas. So using these references points is great for defense or offensive shooting.

For example, if you needed to score a CNS hit on a human, it would be much more effective to aim above the ears instead of worrying about where you are on the head. Aiming at the throat area would almost certainly guarantee a upper chest shot (unless you were shooting high), and crossing arm pits is a very fast way to pick up a center area chest shot.

Most of my friends are military, most the instructors I work with are military. Sadly, most of us don't get to train on firearms anymore, because there is just no place to do it. I believe civilians should train just like Police, Military, or any other "tactical' group.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-30-2011 at 12:00 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:00 AM
taperxz taperxz is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake County
Posts: 14,891
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

I don't know what town it is but the Marine base up from Kaneohe has no place to shoot for military? Nothing in Pearl? Just asking
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:05 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
I don't know what town it is but the Marine base up from Kaneohe has no place to shoot for military? Nothing in Pearl? Just asking
I'm getting ready to approach the Comnav Reg commander to see about utilizing the military's range at Halawa; going to try and pitch free training to military spouses etc. There has been a big increase in "rape" prevention, hoping they might see firearms as form of this rape protection.

Kaenoehe does have rifle range open to public, but only on the last Thursday of the month from 12pm to 3pm. We just found the instruction a month ago and haven't tried it out all the way yet. The problem is it says you need need a military Range Safety Officer.

Puuloa has a rifle club, which is semi-open to the public (really long waiting list), but with all the Army deployments they *rarely* open it up to them for general use; this range doesn't allow pistol shooting AFAIK, but I would have to check with someone to be sure.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-30-2011 at 12:07 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:10 AM
taperxz taperxz is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake County
Posts: 14,891
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Hawaii has a long ways to go when it comes to 2A rights!! The size and unique nature of the islands makes it tough. Not to mention that Hawaiians are of the opinion that Hawaii is Hawaii and not really a part of the US. You know what i mean! Most of the locals dont want the guns there. You guys have an uphill battle until the supremes come down with something! Hawaii makes California look like Arizona!!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:13 AM
asme asme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 406
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Just out of interest, is this the Koko Head range?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-30-2011, 2:03 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yeah asme it is. We are just trying to improve Kokohead so that it is a fully functional range. It has some ways to go to be really useful. It being open more would be great lol. Only open 12pm-3pm Th-F, and 8am-3pm Sat / Sun. Kokohead is an interesting piece of property in itself, because of the way it is chartered, it can only be used as a shooting range for the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Hawaii has a long ways to go when it comes to 2A rights!! The size and unique nature of the islands makes it tough. Not to mention that Hawaiians are of the opinion that Hawaii is Hawaii and not really a part of the US. You know what i mean! Most of the locals dont want the guns there. You guys have an uphill battle until the supremes come down with something! Hawaii makes California look like Arizona!!
One of the Hawai'i Chief Justices wrote a big thing about how Hawai'i should not follow Western Law because it goes against Hawaiian values, and they don't need things like 'western law' tainting how the Island works.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.

Last edited by Funtimes; 06-30-2011 at 3:51 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-30-2011, 3:23 AM
Wrangler John Wrangler John is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,677
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

County owned and operated range that I was employed at allowed bullseye, IHMSA animal silhouette, varmint and specialty sight-in targets, but no human silhouette or picture targets.

Same with the private gun club on public land I shoot at these days.

This is a non issue. It has to do with public relations, part of the reason that filming of any type requires the range master's permission, so that provocateurs can't be filmed shooting at pictures of people, politicians or celebrities. Imagine the bad press that would create.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-30-2011, 6:31 AM
johnny_22's Avatar
johnny_22 johnny_22 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Valley of Heart's Delight
Posts: 2,178
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default Metcalf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarter View Post
Same rules apply at a county owned and operated gun range here in San Jose. Only bull eye targets only unless your LEO/Mil. Sucks for those of us trying to practice with IPSC targets.
I was able to use a Turkey target on Thanksgiving Eve. The ROs laughed about it. But, I had to put away my MNSL reduced IPSC targets.

I view it the same as why the NRA Basic Pistol only uses bullseye targets and no humanoid targets; don't scare people off at first.
__________________
Please, join the NRA.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-30-2011, 7:17 AM
ubet ubet is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Willows, ca
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

jesus HI, sounds even more screwed up than Ca.

OT, I wish HI wasnt part of the USA either, that way, we wouldnt have the dip**** in office that was "born" there. HI, can you please recede from the union!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-30-2011, 8:17 AM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,378
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

At a city (ie gov't) owned I could see making a 1A claim.....especially if the targets are allowed in some circumstances. It's a note a safety issue, its just a piece of paper. And especially since self-defense is the "core of the 2A right" then wouldn't training for self-defense be considered proper and protected?

The question is "what is the compelling state interest" in restricting/prohibiting someone from shooting at a silhouette shaped target?
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-30-2011, 11:16 AM
uyoga's Avatar
uyoga uyoga is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 680
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Where I see a little glimmer of light is in that the range (in this case a government owned entity) is differentiating between different classes or people similarly situated.

I can see a proscription in the use of targets even resembling anyone - living or dead - but a silhouette??
__________________
Non verbis sed operis
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:57 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.