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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 06-21-2011, 11:12 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Default Is there a warning ...?

When an off duty LEO or a CCW holder is pushed to use their firearm , is there usually a warning? Or is it mostly reactive?

Reactive , defensive shooting is when You are SURPRISED and react.

The other times , there is a warning. You are warned and ready to engage a threat or even looking for it.

Would like to hear some opinions?
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:20 AM
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Too many variables....
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by hitman13 View Post
Too many variables....
Ok. You are woke up , and hear a sound of broken glass downstairs. Grab a pistol or a shotgun , dial 911. You are warned that something is wrong. You are in a position to choose Your actions. Somewhat.

OR. You are in a store shopping , two guys run in and start shooting randomly . You just react to their actions.

Which type of situation is more prevalent?
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:38 AM
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I'm not LE, but having been in both situations you mention above, they are very different.

At home, awakened by broken glass noise / dogs barking / alarms, you have some time to prepare and think.

In public places, the attack is almost always by surprise and very fast....bad guys do not give notice of their intentions.

As far as which is more prevalent...armed home invasions or robberies in public, my guess (and experience) is armed robberies in public places.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:46 PM
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Every situation is wholly different. What may work in one, will get you killed in another.

You might remember the Trolley Square incident in 2007. A teenager started shooting up a mall in the burbs of Salt Lake City. An off duty LEO engaged him and was able to pin the shooter down until the cavalry showed up. There've been many cases where off duty officers have been surprised on the street, in a convenience store or a bank and turned the tables on the bad guy.

Surprisingly enough, bad guys often telegraph their intentions, and well trained officers who maintain their situational awareness can and do pick up on them. Each officer who finds themselves in such an encounter needs to use their judgement to properly evaluate and respond to the situation they have in front of them. Many times the best course could be to hang back and be a good witness. An active shooter, IMO, takes that option largely off the table, though.

An off duty encounter in a public place is far more probable, IMO, than a home invasion for a LEO. And even at that off duty encounters in public are not too common at least for a lot of LEOs.
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Old 06-21-2011, 4:27 PM
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In the ideal world, we would always have our situational awareness on...Cooper's Condition Yellow...and we wouldn't ever be surprised. We'd be aware of things developing and raise our alert levels while planning routes to cover and lines of fire...think Jason Bourne in the cafe scene in Bourne Identity

Our families just get used to us not keeping our eyes fixated on them during conversations and speech trailing off while speaking. I once had a friend tell me that I listened like a blind person...with my ears, rather than my eyes.

When you are truly surprise, your response will revert to your training
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Old 06-21-2011, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
Ok. You are woke up , and hear a sound of broken glass downstairs. Grab a pistol or a shotgun , dial 911. You are warned that something is wrong. You are in a position to choose Your actions. Somewhat.

OR. You are in a store shopping , two guys run in and start shooting randomly . You just react to their actions.

Which type of situation is more prevalent?
Two completely different scenarios. The bottom line for either is there has to be an immediate and viable threat. You also have to be in immanent fear of Great Bodily Injury or Death to yourself or another human being.
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Old 06-22-2011, 8:28 AM
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No telling as the world is an unpredictable place.

I have no template for this other than keep my wits about me and revert to my training and skills once the SHTF.

A good street cop is always looking for stuff. It's ingrained in you. You can't help it. People notice after a while that while you are fully engaged in the conversation with them, you are looking everywhere but at them. Some people get used to it, others just think you have ADHD.

I had to catch myself many times hanging out with friends that I am just not going to be able to not look around everywhere while hanging out with them in a public place. Too many variables and possible threats.
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Old 06-22-2011, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
When an off duty LEO or a CCW holder is pushed to use their firearm , is there usually a warning? Or is it mostly reactive?...
If you are presented with a lethal threat there is no obligation or requirement for you to warn prior to eliminating that lethal threat. Each situation is unique...no blanket answer will apply.

If you act...you own that situation and any outcome from it.

When your CNS is running in turbo mode (due to stress/surprise) you react with your lowest level of training.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:03 AM
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Back in the 80's...CA changed the penal code that basically stated...if in your home and you found a person in your home that broke in...you were under no obligation to warn or retreat. The anti's called it..."kill the burglar act".

And always remember...if in a public place and a robbery begins or is in progress...always watch your back. Because, the bad guy may have a buddy already there watching HIS back. So, if you unholster and draw down...you may have a bullet in the back of your head shortly thereafter.

Be safe...
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