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  #1  
Old 06-15-2011, 6:45 PM
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Default AR Pistol Lower

How can I, a non LEO civilian, get a AR pistol lower? Is the 80% route the only way?
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2011, 6:48 PM
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No it is just the most fun way. you can go to Turners right now and purchase a single shot AR pistol right now but not just the lower itself
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2011, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by notme92069 View Post
No it is just the most fun way. you can go to Turners right now and purchase a single shot AR pistol right now but not just the lower itself
Ya, just looking for the lower, not the complete gun.
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Old 06-15-2011, 7:06 PM
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80% or PPT it to you. Raw pistol lowers aren't on the CA approved handgun roster, and therefore cannot be sold in general... complete AR pistols can because they fall under the single-shot exemption. PPT's / LEO purchases are also roster-exempt.

Expect somebody to charge a premium when you PPT one though.
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Old 06-15-2011, 7:19 PM
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I know 80% rifle lowers don't need to br drosed or registered. Does the same ring true or 80% pistol lowers?
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2011, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Monkeywrench View Post
I know 80% rifle lowers don't need to br drosed or registered. Does the same ring true or 80% pistol lowers?
Correct, but you MUST have the pistol in a single-shot form when first assembled, and you can voluntarily register it when you're done if you wish.
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Old 06-15-2011, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Reductio View Post
Correct, but you MUST have the pistol in a single-shot form when first assembled, and you can voluntarily register it when you're done if you wish.
Thanks for helping me out again
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Old 06-15-2011, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Reductio View Post
Correct, but you MUST have the pistol in a single-shot form when first assembled, and you can voluntarily register it when you're done if you wish.
Help me out here a bit, so it is legal to turn a 80% lower into a pistol correct? When you say you have to have the pistol in single shot form when first assembled, you are legally allowed to make it a 10 round non-detachable magazine without registering right?
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Old 06-15-2011, 8:32 PM
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So, a LEO can buy ANY AR lower and register it as a pistol? Then, if he later chose to, could sell that lower to a non LEO?
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Old 06-15-2011, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
So, a LEO can buy ANY AR lower and register it as a pistol? Then, if he later chose to, could sell that lower to a non LEO?

Yep. I have Mega & JD Machine pistol lowers.
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Old 06-15-2011, 8:38 PM
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Well, in that case...

"Hi LEO's! My name is Mike. I am a super friendly guy that loves long walks on the firing range!"
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Old 06-15-2011, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by twinjetguy View Post
Help me out here a bit, so it is legal to turn a 80% lower into a pistol correct? When you say you have to have the pistol in single shot form when first assembled, you are legally allowed to make it a 10 round non-detachable magazine without registering right?
Correct, once you assemble it with a single-round sled and maglock, you can then remove the sled, and swap in up to a 10 round mag... just be sure to keep that bullet button on there.
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Old 06-15-2011, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
So, a LEO can buy ANY AR lower and register it as a pistol? Then, if he later chose to, could sell that lower to a non LEO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd1584 View Post
Yep. I have Mega & JD Machine pistol lowers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
Well, in that case...

"Hi LEO's! My name is Mike. I am a super friendly guy that loves long walks on the firing range!"
Damn, this guy is funny... I love it!
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
How can I, a non LEO civilian, get a AR pistol lower? Is the 80% route the only way?
I'm getting ready to place an AR pistol receiver-only in the classifieds. If you're in San Diego, and are interested, let me know.

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  #15  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Reductio View Post
Correct, but you MUST have the pistol in a single-shot form when first assembled, and you can voluntarily register it when you're done if you wish.
Why do you have to assemble as a single shot first? Then what two minutes later take the sled out? Not that gun laws make sense but this sounds crazy... Could you site the PC on this?
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2011, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tozan View Post
Why do you have to assemble as a single shot first? Then what two minutes later take the sled out? Not that gun laws make sense but this sounds crazy... Could you site the PC on this?
It's part of the unsafe handgun laws. [PC 12125(a)]

Making it into a compliant single-shot pistol exempts you from the unsafe handgun laws. [PC 12133(b)]


Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 12133
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2011, 5:48 PM
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kinda went through this last week, just because it say "pistol" on the AR, it has to be register as a Pistol and some places will only do the transfer if you have proof. I don't think you can register just the lower as a pistol as on the DROS there is a specific barrel lenght required as well as a caliber. If you register just the lower with the "pistol" inscribe on it, it will be registered neither rifle or pistol, it's an "other". Also you cannot own just the pistol upper if you do not own a pistol lower... I just bought a complete AR pistol last week and the FFL discribe to me the process, he had to verify the AR Pistol was register as a pistol before proceeding with the PPT.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2011, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
Well, in that case...

"Hi LEO's! My name is Mike. I am a super friendly guy that loves long walks on the firing range!"
That implies that you want a rifle
Pistols are short walks on the range
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2011, 5:58 PM
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Huh, I can't own a pistol upper without a lower??
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2011, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
Huh, I can't own a pistol upper without a lower??
Due to the Federal and state laws regarding constructive possession of a SBR...

Less than 16" rifled barrel + no firearm/reciever that can use it = legal.
Less than 16" rifled barrel + handgun that can use it = legal.
Less than 16" rifled barrel + rifle/reciever that can use it = illegal.
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  #21  
Old 06-16-2011, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bongos View Post
kinda went through this last week, just because it say "pistol" on the AR, it has to be register as a Pistol and some places will only do the transfer if you have proof.
none of my registered AR pistol lowers have "pistol" engraved on them. That doesn't mean that they're not pistols.


Quote:
I don't think you can register just the lower as a pistol as on the DROS there is a specific barrel lenght required as well as a caliber.
Sure you can, if you're exempt here in CA.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2011, 7:01 PM
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I have one stupid question. Since the upper is something I'm going to have to save for, can I have an 07 ffl build me a complete pistol lower and then put my 16" carbine upper on it for dros and then get my upper at a later date?
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2011, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NapaCountyShooter View Post
I have one stupid question. Since the upper is something I'm going to have to save for, can I have an 07 ffl build me a complete pistol lower and then put my 16" carbine upper on it for dros and then get my upper at a later date?
Yes, but you won't be able to DROS it as a "handgun".
It'll be DROS'd as a "long gun" and 4473'd as an "other".

CA law [PC 12001(a)(1)] require that the rifled barrel length needs to be less than 16" in order to be a "handgun".
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Old 06-16-2011, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
That implies that you want a rifle
Pistols are short walks on the range
Good one
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Old 06-16-2011, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Yes, but you won't be able to DROS it as a "handgun".
It'll be DROS'd as a "long gun" and 4473'd as an "other".

CA law [PC 12001(a)(1)] require that the rifled barrel length needs to be less than 16" in order to be a "handgun".
Ok. Thanks. That blows that idea.
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Old 06-16-2011, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tomd1584 View Post
none of my registered AR pistol lowers have "pistol" engraved on them. That doesn't mean that they're not pistols.




Sure you can, if you're exempt here in CA.
Correct, many AR pistols don't have to have the "Pistol" imprint, many are like yours, what I meant is, you can't assume the AR pistol is legit just because it has the worD "Pistol" on it, FFL will ask for proof once the gun changes hands.

Last edited by Bongos; 06-17-2011 at 6:36 AM..
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:32 AM
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So if someone does not have any AR lowers, an ar pistol upper, all lower parts to assemble a pistol including a bullet button and single shot sled, is there any way to get just a pistol receiver other than building one from an 80%?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:19 PM
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i've been researching this for a couple days now. it seems there is no one stop shop for all the info. this link was pretty helpful but very vague:

http://www.quora.com/How-can-one-mak...R-style-pistol

I'm going the 80% route. Seems to be the easiest as far at the legalities are concerned but more work physically. Which is fine with me.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer View Post
So if someone does not have any AR lowers, an ar pistol upper, all lower parts to assemble a pistol including a bullet button and single shot sled, is there any way to get just a pistol receiver other than building one from an 80%?
Already answered in this thread: either purchase as a LEO, or PPT it off somebody else.
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Ah, the old "form over function" argument. I guess some people would rather be seen with a hot blonde who won't put out than with a "Neil 8" who will make you .
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Old 06-17-2011, 1:04 PM
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Thanks Red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reductio View Post
Already answered in this thread: either purchase as a LEO, or PPT it off somebody else.
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Old 06-17-2011, 3:04 PM
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Thanks Red.
I would think that Jack Bauer could get a couple Pistol lowers pretty easy here in CA.
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Old 06-17-2011, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspiredm3 View Post
Ya, just looking for the lower, not the complete gun.
i was in the same boat as you now, i got the complete pistol
if you want i can pm you a nice guys can get it for you
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Old 06-17-2011, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tomd1584 View Post
I would think that Jack Bauer could get a couple Pistol lowers pretty easy here in CA.
If he can't get it the easy way, he'll take it the hard way

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Old 06-17-2011, 6:59 PM
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I would think if you acquire an AR pistol lower through PPT you do not have to build it as a single shot pistol first.

It's already exempt because of the PPT and assembling is not the same as manufacturing.

For an 80% the transition through single shot is required because you are manufacturing.

I would probably still go through the motions but I don't know any cops who will ppt virgin pistol lowers to me so I'll never have to test it.
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Old 06-17-2011, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SPR18 View Post
i was in the same boat as you now, i got the complete pistol
if you want i can pm you a nice guys can get it for you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer View Post
So if someone does not have any AR lowers, an ar pistol upper, all lower parts to assemble a pistol including a bullet button and single shot sled, is there any way to get just a pistol receiver other than building one from an 80%?
For folks in the Bay Area there is a way to do the pistol lower legally and not need to actually buy an upper. PM me for details.
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Old 06-17-2011, 9:52 PM
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For folks in the Bay Area there is a way to do the pistol lower legally and not need to actually buy an upper. PM me for details.
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  #37  
Old 06-17-2011, 11:31 PM
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Find an 07 FFL (manufacturer's licensed firearms dealer) that deals in AR pistols that makes / imports them as single shot exempt with bullet button and 0 round sled. Once you buy it, wait the ten days, and get it you can legally convert it to ten shot semi auto with the bullet button.

If you just need the lower you have to have an upper to take to them. They have to be the ones to install the LPK and may charge a fee.

You CANNOT just go out and buy a stripped lower and build it yourself because they can't register stripped lowers as pistols at the state level. They have to be registered as long guns and if you make a pistol from one it's considered an illegal SBR or AOW... That and you need an 07 FFL to manufacture handguns, and they would not be on the roster if it was built as ten shot from the get go.

Also, it doesn't matter if there's a mark on the lower that says pistol. It has to be registered as a pistol.

Last edited by Thecrazyone1; 06-17-2011 at 11:38 PM..
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2011, 7:19 AM
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OK I have a question.

My sister lives in a free state and is moving home next year. One of the things I want her to bring my is an AR Pistol Lower.

Seeing as they can build pistols or rifles from any lower they buy in free America how do I get this registered to me as a Pistol?
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Old 06-18-2011, 2:56 PM
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OK I have a question.

My sister lives in a free state and is moving home next year. One of the things I want her she wants to bring my for herself is an AR Pistol Lower.

Seeing as they can build pistols or rifles from any lower they buy in free America, how do I does she get this registered to me as a Pistol?
Fixed.

Having your sister bring a non-approved listed handgun into CA for the purpose of selling/transfering to you is a violation of CA state laws. [PC 12125(a)]

She can legally import non-approved listed handguns she intends to keep. Within 60 days of establishing residency in CA, she must register all the handguns she brought with her to CA via the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. [PC 12072(f)(2)(A)]

In order to be exempt from CA state laws, the person importing the non-approved listed handgun(s) has to intend on keeping them for their own use [PC 12001(n)(7)].




Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 12072
(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).
(iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 12001
(n) As used in this chapter, a "personal handgun importer" means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
(5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
(6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998, as a resident of this state.
(7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998.
(8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision (c) of Section 12072.
(9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
(10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
(11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276 or 12276.1.
(12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
(o) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (n):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) In the case of members of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when he or she was discharged from active service in this state.
__________________


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Last edited by Quiet; 06-18-2011 at 3:07 PM..
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Old 06-18-2011, 4:57 PM
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morrcarr67 morrcarr67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Fixed.

Having your sister bring a non-approved listed handgun into CA for the purpose of selling/transfering to you is a violation of CA state laws. [PC 12125(a)]

She can legally import non-approved listed handguns she intends to keep. Within 60 days of establishing residency in CA, she must register all the handguns she brought with her to CA via the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. [PC 12072(f)(2)(A)]

In order to be exempt from CA state laws, the person importing the non-approved listed handgun(s) has to intend on keeping them for their own use [PC 12001(n)(7)].




Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 12072
(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).
(iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 12001
(n) As used in this chapter, a "personal handgun importer" means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
(5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
(6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998, as a resident of this state.
(7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998.
(8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision (c) of Section 12072.
(9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
(10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
(11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276 or 12276.1.
(12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
(o) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (n):
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) In the case of members of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when he or she was discharged from active service in this state.
You need to read Penal Code 12072 all the way through.

(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC12072(d)
(d)Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.
Which means she would have to sell them to someone and do the transfer @ a FFL.

(iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

It specifically says that a personal gun importer must Register OR Sell/Transfer within 60 days of bringing them in. She can buy gifts for anyone she wants.

This is similar to how people get off roster guns as gifts from parents/grandparents/child/grandchild from out of state.
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Last edited by morrcarr67; 06-18-2011 at 5:02 PM..
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