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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-06-2011, 2:32 PM
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Default Roster exemption summary/clarifications (single-shot pistol/single-action revolver)

Per 12133PC, certain handguns are Roster-exempt. These include:
Single-action Revolvers, capable of holding 5 or more rounds, with 3” minimum barrel length and 7.5”
minimum
overall length when assembled.

Single-shot Pistols,
with 6” minimum barrel length, and a minimum overall length of 10.5” when assembled.

(lengths measured parallel to bore)
[Some folks casually and mistakenly conflate categories: there's simply NO “single-action exemption” - otherwise all 1911s & Browning Hi-Power pistols would be automagically Roster-exempt! The single-action revolver exemption applies to revolvers only. Similarly, there’s no “single-shot revolver” exemption either!]

Handguns not ordinarily considered single-action revolvers nor single-shot pistols may be converted to such status for regular resale by CA FFLs as 12133PC Roster-exempt handguns.

After a Californian completes the required forms/background check, and leaves the FFL 10 days later with his new handgun, he's then free to modify his new gun into any other legal form. Specifically, he may wish to convert his newly-acquired single-action revolver back to double-action status, or convert his new single-shot pistol back into multi-shot, magazine-fed status. The individual may decide to turn around and reenter the gunshop and have his FFL dealer assist him with gunsmithing services to swap parts.

“Category crossing” should be avoided not only to skirt definitional drama, but because the dimensional & parts-availability issues favor a DA revolver being converted to a Roster-exempt single-action revolver far more gracefully than into a Roster-exempt single-shot pistol – and this generally avoids revolver barrel mangling, too. (The converse is rather obvious: pistols are far more easily converted to single-shot pistol status than into single-action revolver status!)

Use of drop-in parts to modify a handgun does not require an 07 FFL (i.e., a “manufacturing FFL”). Also, while 12125PC has murky wording related to importing “unsafe handguns” for sale, California FFLs are allowed to freely import non-Rostered handguns for prospective LEO sales - and handguns rendered into Roster-exempt status are legal for resale to ordinary Californians too. Note the 12133PC exemptions includes the controlling phrase, “The provisions of this chapter do not apply…”.


Modifying a handgun into another legal handgun configuration is legal.


There are no laws restricting an individual or gunsmith from changing an owner’s handgun in one legal configuration to any other legal configuration. (Regardless of its Roster status or Roster exemption: the Roster is really just a gating function to resale.)

Changes to caliber, barrel length can be made, along with rimfire / centerfire changeovers, conversion between single- & double-action status, and conversion between single-shot vs. repeater status, etc. [However, conversion to any of various prohibited firearm categories such as 12276/12276.1PC 'assault weapon', or short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, unconventional pistol, etc. must all be avoided!
Both Federal and CA laws must be observed.]


California “Roster-exempt” status is NOT achieved without proper “dimensional compliance”.

Whether or not the handgun is already categorized as single-action revolver or single-shot pistol, if the barrel and/or overall lengths (or if under 5 round cylinder for revolvers) are incorrect for that particular 12133PC exemption, then it’s simply not Roster-exempt.

[Certain single-action revolver variants called “Sheriff’s model” or “Storekeeper”, having under-3” barrels (typically ~2.75” long), do NOT qualify as Roster-exempt single-action revolvers. However, such guns may be separately Roster-exempt if they separately fall into the C&R/antique category, which will not be discussed here.]


The “single-action revolver” Roster exemption does NOT mean “it looks like a cowboy gun” (Colt SAA, Ruger Vaquero, etc).

There are no California statutory/regulatory definitions of “single-action revolver”. Nevertheless, this term is understood across the industry to define revolvers requiring the user to perform a separate cocking action, followed by separate trigger pull action, to fire a chambered round. It does NOT mean the gun 'looks like a cowboy gun'.

[What particular user action causes the cylinder to revolve is immaterial to this definition and varies by revolver architecture. Differences between the “loading gate” design common to cowboy-style Colt SAA-pattern revolvers vs. the swing-out cylinder/yoke assembly implemented on modern revolvers are irrelevant as to actual single-action status.]

Of particular note, Smith & Wesson shipped some Model 14-3 revolvers in single-action configuration in the 1970s; given their size, they are Roster-exempt. These revolvers look like modern double-action revolvers but require the separate, independent cocking and firing actions of single-action revolvers. (In this particular gun, the cylinder rotates due to the trigger pull, not hammer cocking – differing from Colt SAA-pattern revolvers, where the cocking action is the one that rotates the cylinder.) ]

Double-action revolvers – depending on brand, model and internal architecture – can be converted to single-action operation by simple parts removal, usually involving the “D/A sear”. [Care must be taken to not damage the revolver’s finish and knife-edge sideplate contours in such work; proper “gunsmith” hollow-ground screwdrivers must be used to not damage screw heads.]

Removal of the “DA sear” from S&W revolvers’ internal lockwork renders single-action operation; this is likely applicable to Taurus and Rossi revolvers as well (not verified). (There are reliable reports that similar work can be done to modern Colt double-action revolvers such as Pythons also.)

Those performing such work should ensure, after parts removal and reassembly, that the revolver will indeed be safe to operate (especially regarding passing several
hammer push off” tests), and that the gun indeed operates ONLY in single-action revolver mode and CAN'T operate in double-action mode. The gun should otherwise operate normally, safely, and reliably to “pass the smell test” as a useable handgun.


The “single-shot pistol” Roster exemption does NOT mean the gun has to look like a T/C Contender, etc.

“Single-shot pistol” status is neither defined in statute nor regulation. It is understood across the industry to mean the handgun, as it stands, can only contain and fire one round. Any reloading of the gun involves the user having to manually load another round stored somewhere else in a position that cannot feed into the chamber.

The only storage capacity in a 12133PC Roster-exempt single-shot pistol should be in its chamber: the gun as a whole must have a maximum capacity of one round. To achieve this status, a zero-round magazine is typically affixed to gun, or the magwell can be blocked from accepting any magazine-like devices and preventing any ammo from entering into chamber.

A zero-round magazine can either be a dummy “blue gun” training/filler magazine, or a regular magazine whose follower travel is blocked to zero round capacity. (The follower of such a magazine may need to “float” a bit to allow graceful slide movement.) Another alternative – especially on AR-pattern pistols – is to use a “sled” normally designed to work with longer rounds (80gr VLDs.)

Whatever zero-round magazine/filler is used, it should be locked in place with some sort of screw-down or “maglock” device replacing the magazine release button, such that a user cannot manually drop the magazine and must use a tool. (This also keeps the gun outside of 12276.1PC assault weapons status for guns such as AR/AK pistols.) This could be as simple as a recessed Allen screw & nut in a 1911, or a junked mag catch cut down so far that a tool is needed to push it in. The famous BulletButton and RaddLock devices common in CA-legal AR/AK rifle & pistol implementations also serve well in these guns.

[One unique implementation involves using long grip screws penetrating thru the magazine well into the screw bosses of the opposite grip panel. No magazine can load in such a pistol, nor can ammo feed from inside. Care should be taken such that ammo cannot enter and fall into the chamber if gun held upside down.]

Achieving dimensionally-compliant Roster-exempt single-shot pistol status may be harder or easier and depend on the make/type of pistol, and cost/availability of spare barrels. For typical pistols, several inches of steel pipe (whose inner diameter is wider than the caliber!) can be welded to the barrel end to get the min. 6” barrel length. Close inspection should be made to ensure safe conditions (concentricity/linearity of bore across both segments, no internal bore obstructions, etc.). In other cases, long aftermarket barrels are already available – specifically, for 1911-style 45ACP pistols.

Permanence of attachment of any required barrel extension is needed to achieve the required 6” minimum single-shot barrel length (otherwise, it's considerable as separate barrel and separate extension). However, any additional length needed to get to the 10.5” min. overall length doesn't (in theory) need to be permanently attached.

Generally, for AR/AK-style pistols and other pistols of similar caliber and “magazine-forward” topology the minimum compliance lengths are already achieved, and no barrel modifications are necessary..

[N.B. Note that barrel length should stay under the 16” boundary – this is to avoid any risk of crossing outside defined “handgun” territory and avoiding related SBR complications when attempting to return to handgun status.]


Roster-exempt handgun conversions can be used to avoid face-to-face PPT requirements, and function as a workaround to Roster issues when the seller/supplier doesn't hold a California ID.


DOJ BoF is (illegally) requiring source parties in PPTs to have CA IDs. Transferring a Roster-exempt handgun via a CA FFL avoids this PPT requirement since the gun can transition through CA FFL regular inventory.

Note that transfer fees are no longer the state-mandated PPT amount and can be whatever the FFL dealer chooses to charge - since PPT rules are not applicable.

Rendering a handgun into 12133PC Roster-exempt status also allows it to be shipped & transferred across California to another Californian’s local FFL, without the owners having to meet at the FFL at the same time, etc.


Roster-exempt conversions must be “safe and sane.”


Any conversions shouldn't result in dangerous situations (i.e, such poor attachment of barrel extension there are bore obstructions ) – and shouldn't result in a gun really only usable once or twice at best (i.e., you cut your hand extracting spent rounds, etc.)


Extended barrels' bores need checking for free movement of a caliber-specific test rod. Revolvers need checking for instances of dangerous “hammer push-off” (a wise test on any gun with exposed hammer anyway!)

Roster-exempt conversions should produce a repeatably usable handgun not presenting danger to either the user or those nearby, and must “pass the smell” test as a rational, useable handgun
.

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Last edited by bwiese; 10-06-2011 at 5:06 PM.. Reason: random line breaks fixed
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2011, 2:45 PM
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That should cover things pretty well, I had to be a bit terse to get it under 12,500 characters.
Prob. need to ask Kes to bump my limit a bit more.
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Last edited by bwiese; 06-06-2011 at 2:48 PM..
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Old 06-06-2011, 2:49 PM
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Its a good summary! Lets get it in the Sticky collection!
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Old 06-06-2011, 2:49 PM
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Pretty Damn good for a work in progress. Thanks for spelling this out so completely. I plan to use this info very soon...
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Old 06-06-2011, 4:22 PM
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Great job Bill. Thank you very much. I do have a couple of questions for you Sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWIESE

Use of drop-in parts to modify a handgun does not require an 07 FFL (i.e., a “manufacturing FFL”). Also, while 12125PC has murky wording related to importing “unsafe handguns” for sale, California FFLs are allowed to freely import non-Rostered handguns for prospective LEO sales - and handguns rendered into Roster-exempt status are legal for resale to ordinary Californians too. Also, the 12133PC exemptions includes the controlling phrase, “The provisions of this chapter do not apply…”.


Modifying a handgun into another legal handgun configuration is legal.

There are no laws restricting an individual or gunsmith from changing an owner’s handgun in one legal configuration to any other legal configuration. (This is regardless of its Roster status or exemption; the Roster is really just a gating function to resale.)
What qualifies as "Drop in Parts"?

ie, Does this 7" barrel from Sarco count as a "drop in part"?

If so does that mean that ANY FFL (01 or 07) can install this and an extra long grip screw into a 1911 and make it a Single Shot Compliant Pistol?

And, does that also mean that ANY FFL (01 or 07) could remove the DA Sear from a dimensionally compliant DA Revolver to change it to a Single Action Roster Exempt Revolver?
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Old 06-06-2011, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
Great job Bill. Thank you very much. I do have a couple of questions for you Sir.

What qualifies as "Drop in Parts"?

ie, Does this 7" barrel from Sarco count as a "drop in part"?

If the *gun* itself doesn't need smithing, finishing, etc. I think you're fine.

The replacement barrel itself is 'parts is parts' and is often being modded as an inventoried item so the particpating FFL has a fleet of barrels out on loan.

Quote:
If so does that mean that ANY FFL (01 or 07) can install this and an extra long grip screw into a 1911 and make it a Single Shot Compliant Pistol?
Quote:
And, does that also mean that ANY FFL (01 or 07) could remove the DA Sear from a dimensionally compliant DA Revolver to change it to a Single Action Roster Exempt Revolver?
My prior concerns about certain matters relating to 'unsafe handguns' were prudent caution, but appear to be unnecessary. The 12133 exemptions contain text, "The provisions of this chapter shall not apply..." which nullify these.

Bottom line:
- comply with proper dimensions for a given exempt gun type
- the gun must rationally work in new form, and not be dangerous
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Old 06-06-2011, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post

My prior concerns about certain matters relating to 'unsafe handguns' were prudent caution, but appear to be unnecessary. The 12133 exemptions contain text, "The provisions of this chapter shall not apply..." which nullify these.

Bottom line:
- comply with proper dimensions for a given exempt gun type
- the gun must rationally work in new form, and not be dangerous

Very nice thank you for this info.
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Old 06-06-2011, 4:52 PM
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I guess I will add my obligatory Bravo, Bill!! right here in this space. Plus, as per above, this is now for future advertising.
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Old 06-06-2011, 4:57 PM
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Just wish more FFL's did single shots, now.
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Old 06-06-2011, 5:21 PM
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First ....... thanks Bill. I have my eye on an off roster 1911

Quote:
Originally Posted by aklover_91 View Post
Just wish more FFL's did single shots, now.
I see this happening / evolving like OLL's where it is slow to start but a year or two from now you'll be able to walk into a lot more dealers and get what you want even if it is off roster.

Hell there maybe a whole cottage industry supplying the parts kits and doing the mods on kitchen tables ........hummm maybe my new business venture
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Last edited by microwaveguy; 06-06-2011 at 5:24 PM..
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Old 06-06-2011, 5:29 PM
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Cool - Took advantage and got a NRF pistol last week -
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Old 06-06-2011, 5:36 PM
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*nudges those with wiki access*

This would make a great CGF wiki article where it can be longer than the character limit

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Old 06-06-2011, 5:41 PM
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Sweet writeup.
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Old 06-06-2011, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
*nudges those with wiki access*

This would make a great CGF wiki article where it can be longer than the character limit

-Gene
Well, get Bill to sign up ....



No, Bill, if you'll attach the complete version to a PM, I'll get it up on the Wiki.

But we can hope the necessity for such an article will diminish at least in this decade.
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Old 06-06-2011, 6:25 PM
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Nice writeup Bill. Thanks for this.
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Old 06-06-2011, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
But we can hope the necessity for such an article will diminish at least in this decade.
I hope the LCM and AW articles can be put into the [ARCHIVE] section soon as well.

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Old 06-06-2011, 8:22 PM
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Great article! Should help with getting some smiths in from out of state. I have already had a couple sent in under the single action revolver exemptions. I have actually purchased N and K frame hammers that I have already removed the double action sear so I can ship it to the seller and they just have to drop them in.
Here is a picture of a regular s&w hammer, the double action sear is just below the firing pin. (looks like a little black lever)

Here is a single action hammer kit, you can see that it has no double action sear



Here is one of the revolvers I have had sent in from out of state, a 625 3 inch (bottom) oh the possibilities.
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Old 06-06-2011, 8:32 PM
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I agree with most that has been said but it's kind of ironic that you have to make a gun "safe" to fit in a "roster of not unsafe handguns" exempt category because being exempt should let you sell an unsafe handgun...

If you only intend to keep your handgun in an exempt status long enough to legally transfer it through an FFL, passing a smell test seems silly because the whole law stinks.
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Old 06-06-2011, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
If you only intend to keep your handgun in an exempt status long enough to legally transfer it through an FFL, passing a smell test seems silly because the whole law stinks.
Yes, but we don't want to screw the relevant FFL over in case of audit or "test buyer", etc. If the gun is regarded as somehow nonfunctional then the above work risk being invalid and the FFL risk having transferred a non-Rostered, non-exempt firearm to a nonexempt buyer - which means trouble.
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Old 06-06-2011, 9:20 PM
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Wow, I get to threadjack my own thread...

Shooting4Life, re: your pictured S&W wheelguns above - the upper one w/ ~4" barrel has some wonderful aftermarket grips. What brand grips are those?

BTW, thank you for the helpful, illustrative picture of the hammer with the DA sear identified.
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Old 06-06-2011, 9:31 PM
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Am I correct in my understanding that C&R Handguns are also roster exempt?
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Old 06-06-2011, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagduf View Post
Am I correct in my understanding that C&R Handguns are also roster exempt?
Yep - Roster exempt if 50 yrs olds or "in the ATF C&R book".
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Old 06-06-2011, 9:50 PM
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So this is just clarifying the whole single shot thing right? 07 FFLs are still the only ones who can do this?
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:17 PM
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Thank you for the great writeup Bill!! Answers a lot of the common questions. Lets get this out on the interwebz asap!
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk556 View Post
So this is just clarifying the whole single shot thing right? 07 FFLs are still the only ones who can do this?
No, as I wronte above that was product initial conservatism. For parts that drop in the gun without the *gun* needing machinework, this is fine: the gun is already "manufactured".

Given wording of 12133 exemptions bypassing the whole "chapter", plus the fact that CA FFLs can order guns for sale to LEOs, and that Roster exemptions allow such handguns to be sold without regard to 12125... et seq, we're good.

Now, an 07 would be required if a (pistol or virgin) RECEIVER is built into a pistol - 1911 frame into full 45ACP pistol, or OLL AR lower into full AR pistol (ensuring non-AW configuration).
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Old 06-07-2011, 5:11 AM
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Hell there maybe a whole cottage industry supplying the parts kits and doing the mods on kitchen tables ........hummm maybe my new business venture
I was thinking the same thing.
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Old 06-07-2011, 5:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
No, as I wronte above that was product initial conservatism. For parts that drop in the gun without the *gun* needing machinework, this is fine: the gun is already "manufactured".

Given wording of 12133 exemptions bypassing the whole "chapter", plus the fact that CA FFLs can order guns for sale to LEOs, and that Roster exemptions allow such handguns to be sold without regard to 12125... et seq, we're good.

Now, an 07 would be required if a (pistol or virgin) RECEIVER is built into a pistol - 1911 frame into full 45ACP pistol, or OLL AR lower into full AR pistol (ensuring non-AW configuration).
I just curious. What if a person was to order an AK pistol receiver using the 07 FFL's license and that person assembled the the rest of the parts themselves either later or at the 07's shop?
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Old 06-07-2011, 5:47 AM
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I just curious. What if a person was to order an AK pistol receiver using the 07 FFL's license and that person assembled the the rest of the parts themselves either later or at the 07's shop?
I don't believe that will work. That's the whole reason you need an 07 FFL for those types of guns. If it was OK for you to build it you wouldn't need to send it to an 07 FFL.
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:02 AM
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Wow, I get to threadjack my own thread...

Shooting4Life, re: your pictured S&W wheelguns above - the upper one w/ ~4" barrel has some wonderful aftermarket grips. What brand grips are those?

BTW, thank you for the helpful, illustrative picture of the hammer with the DA sear identified.
The upper grips are made by herrett and are very nice rd to sq conversion grips.
The bottom grips are made by Nill. They are pricey but worth it. Never seen a fit tighter than these, can hardly find a seem on the bottom.
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
I just curious. What if a person was to order an AK pistol receiver using the 07 FFL's license and that person assembled the the rest of the parts themselves either later or at the 07's shop?
"later" ==> impossible, since that'd mean the bare receiver was DROSed to the individual, and that can't be done (except thru PPT, consignment, intrafamily, inheritance routes).

"at the shop" ==> if the FFL07 were comfortable with you doing the work there, I guess it's OK. The gun would prob have to be assembled/operational shape before DROS starts to keep any DOJ audit happy (not really legally enforceable but we don't want FFLs entangled with drama).

I really don't see what this buys anyone...
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
"later" ==> impossible, since that'd mean the bare receiver was DROSed to the individual, and that can't be done (except thru PPT, consignment, intrafamily, inheritance routes).

"at the shop" ==> if the FFL07 were comfortable with you doing the work there, I guess it's OK. The gun would prob have to be assembled/operational shape before DROS starts to keep any DOJ audit happy (not really legally enforceable but we don't want FFLs entangled with drama).

I really don't see what this buys anyone...
With the single action revolver work around above it is something that I could do at the ffl's shop with about 10 minutes of time and a couple of handtools.
This would be easier than trying to get people to do it from out of state as I am having a success rate of about 1 in 15 requests right now.
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:32 AM
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With the single action revolver work around above it is something that I could do at the ffl's shop with about 10 minutes of time and a couple of handtools. This would be easier than trying to get people to do it from out of state as I am having a success rate of about 1 in 15 requests right now.
Let 'er rip. I would again just say the gun should be modded/working before DROS process starts.
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:34 AM
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This topic is the whole reason I joined calguns, which in turn turned me into a gun nut. Thanks Bill.
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Old 06-07-2011, 8:37 AM
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Let 'er rip. I would again just say the gun should be modded/working before DROS process starts.
I'll talk to my ffl about it and see if he is game. Will report back in a few days. If he is willing I don't know what my bank account is going to look like. Might have to finally get the c&r and COE to by pass the 1 in 30 rule.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:06 AM
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I think the post should be added as a guide, right next to the AW flowchart.

Most of this is stuff i've been telling friends/family for quite some time. Having it laid out concisely and clearly like this is nice.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:09 AM
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Cool - Took advantage and got a NRF pistol last week -
NRF is not the same as single-shot/single-action conversion.

NRF is still on hold.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:39 AM
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The awesomeness of this awesomely awesome post by Bill is simply awesome. It's been discussed here in bits, and it's sometimes hard to explain (especially to those not even TRYING to understand) but nice to see full explanation in one post. Now, like the FAQ for OLLs I can just point people here. Thanks!
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:50 PM
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fANTASTIC THREAD! THANK YOU!!!!

I have an older FFL who is NOT up to date with these laws. More importantly however, he is willing to learn and even do certain transfers provided they are LEGAL. He asked me to bring in PROOF of the single action revolver exemption, and also wanted to know where the exemption could be put in the DROS page on the computer, as he looked for it and could not find it.

1. I will print the first page of this and bring it to him.

2. Is there a government website/link I can get the SINGLE ACTION REVOLVER exemption info from so he can see it first hand(IE: not off a random website some kid shows him?)

3. Where in the DROS computer info can he put the exemption? He looked for it and could not find it.


Please excuse my ignorance and his. I am somewhat new to this whole thing, and he is very ignorant to these laws, but he is WILLING TO LEARN. He even said he would call the DOJ to confirm once I show him the paperwork(he doesn't want to call now and sound like an idiot before I show him SOME proof)

Last edited by Onlyincali; 06-07-2011 at 1:03 PM..
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Old 06-07-2011, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlyincali View Post
I have an older FFL who is NOT up to date with these laws. More importantly however, he is willing to learn and even do certain transfers provided they are LEGAL. He asked me to bring in PROOF of the single action revolver exemption, and also wanted to know where the exemption could be put in the DROS page on the computer, as he looked for it and could not find it.
.
.
.
3. Where in the DROS computer info can he put the exemption?
He looked for it and could not find it.

I don't have a DROS screen layout at hand.

How ever he runs a Ruger Blackhawk revolver (which is a non-Rostered exempt factory single-action revolver) or a T/C Contender pistol (which is an exempt single-shot pistol) is also the way he should similarly run these other handguns. I seem to recall there's a note/comment area where you can specify something like "Roster-exempt single action revolver".

Other FFLs here can speak up with procedural details - as these are used to sell single-shot off-list AR/AK pistols, etc.

Quote:
2. Is there a government website/link I can get the SINGLE ACTION REVOLVER exemption info from so he can see it first hand (IE: not off
a random website some kid shows him?)
12133PC can be found near bottom of http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12125.php

Quoted here, important items boldfaced/emphasized below by me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12133 PC:

(a)
The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge
capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in
Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7-1/2 inches when the handle,
frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

(3)
Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7-1/2 inches when the handle, frame
or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States
pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States
Code.

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10-1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Please excuse my ignorance and his. I am somewhat new to this whole thing, and he is very ignorant to these laws, but he is WILLING TO LEARN. He even said he would call the DOJ to confirm once I show him the paperwork(he doesn't want to call now and sound like an idiot before I show him SOME proof)
He most likely will not get a favorable or intelligible answer from DOJ.
They don't like this, and would like to stop it but they can't (other than stall and verbally issue inaccurate info).

Anything the DOJ says needs to be gotten IN WRITING. They will dispense FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) otherwise on the phone to an ordinary FFL.

(However they have already audited/inspected a variety of FFLs doing 'single shot' etc. Roster exemptions, so it's moot).

It's irrelevant, however, since it's legal. CGF backs this.
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Last edited by bwiese; 06-07-2011 at 1:23 PM..
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Old 06-07-2011, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlyincali View Post
3. Where in the DROS computer info can he put the exemption? He looked for it and could not find it.
There are only 4 DROS options:

Long Gun
Handgun
Police Officer
C&R/Olympic Pistol/Exempt

If he can't find the giant button that takes up 1/4 of the screen, then perhaps its time for eye surgery?
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