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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM
nismart1 nismart1 is offline
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Default Military LONG GUN purchase problem - HELP!

Hello, I have been following the forums for some time but have never posted until now. I need to know if what I experienced will be repeated elsewhere.

I am a proud Oregonian and active-duty Marine Corps officer PCS'ed to California. I have read here that, according to the ATF, I am only legally able to buy firearms in the state of PCS (California)... which leads me to my problem.

Yesterday I attempted to buy a 4-round, bolt-action .30-06 Ruger American Rifle for hunting at Salinas Hunter's Supply in Salinas. I brought my PCS orders and my military ID, but was told that the CA DOJ/BATFE has been requiring California GOVERNMENT-ISSUED "proof of residency" for the DROS. Since everything I have (truck, etc) is registered in Oregon, and utility bills, leases, etc are not "government issued" they won't let me purchase the firearm in spite of what the law and DOJ website says (mil ID, PCS orders only requirement). The store is insisting this is a CA DOJ/BATFE requirement and not a store policy. Keep in mind that this is for a generic long gun.

I need to know if this is an actual CA DOJ or BATFE policy (which would contradict CA law for long gun purchases), or if the store is giving me the run-around with unnecessary policies. If that is the case, can anyone point me to a military-friendly gun store in the Monterey Bay area?
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Old 01-23-2013, 1:08 PM
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The store is wrong.

Your military ID and your PCS orders allow you to buy guns in California. Go to a different store.
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Old 01-23-2013, 1:15 PM
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Same as NiteQwill said.
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Old 01-23-2013, 7:15 PM
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I purchased an SR9 not four days ago with only ID, orders and lease. Absolutely untrue. Bring your business to a reputable establishment.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:36 PM
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Unfortunately for those of us who are in the Military and live in Monterey County there are few options for Firearm and Ammo purchases. I would go to Big 5 by the Mall and see what they say. You could also check out Dicks Sporting Goods as well if you don't have too much heartburn over there pulling modern sporting Rifles off the shelf. If you are up for a drive there is Atascadero Firearms down past Paso Robles.

Last edited by jeg0777; 01-23-2013 at 10:45 PM..
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  #6  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:39 PM
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Correct - pure LGS based uninformed, ignorant FUD

Orders, ID = gun
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
The store is wrong.

Your military ID and your PCS orders allow you to buy guns in California. Go to a different store.
^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

It may also be wise to facilitate some dialogue between the store and DOJ to resolve the issue.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:44 PM
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I'm in Monterey also. You could try Markley's in Watsonville. I took my LTC course there and am doing a DROS there tomorrow.
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Old 01-25-2013, 9:17 PM
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This is sad but had to the same thing I went to my command and got a proof of service stating my address they accepted it with open arms no problem the funny part was the certifying official was ME nobody questioned it and who else can really prove that's where I live.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:37 PM
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I've never had a problem using my lease agreement and orders also. I recently changed my car registration to my physical address, so that should make it a lot easier too.
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  #11  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:22 AM
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Tell them to learn the law
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:36 AM
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Check out Lokey in Morgan Hill. Not too far from Monterey but I don't know how their current inventory is.
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Old 02-12-2013, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismart1 View Post
I am a proud Oregonian and active-duty Marine Corps officer PCS'ed to California. I have read here that, according to the ATF, I am only legally able to buy firearms in the state of PCS (California)... which leads me to my problem
If they sell a firearm to you, who is breaking the law? You, them, or both?

I was going to get a Glock 26 in my home state from a major firearm retailer and they said they wouldn't have any issue selling one to me. When I asked them about the PCS orders out of state, they called the "government handgun hotline" which said I was good to go as I had a valid state ID and have my official residency there for taxes/voting. I ended up not getting it, but only because it was $200 cheaper at ProForce in Brea. Since I didn't get it in my home state, I can't say for certain that the paperwork would have gone through.

Last edited by 0150r; 02-13-2013 at 5:55 AM..
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:02 PM
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longgun: mil ID & orders to CA

handgun: mil ID, Orders, & lease agreement

also never hurts to ask if the gun store does mil discount.
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Old 02-13-2013, 5:11 AM
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The only time I've been asked for a secondary doc outside of an ID is needed is for handguns in this state. I usually used to bring a bill (tax, cable, parking ticket) etc, within the last 60 days to prove where you live. That's it.

I have had this happen at one other shop in Temecula, just made sure to let them know they were wrong and put up the info on the San Diego chapter page so people would know.
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Old 02-13-2013, 7:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismart1 View Post
I need to know if this is an actual CA DOJ or BATFE policy (which would contradict CA law for long gun purchases), or if the store is giving me the run-around with unnecessary policies. If that is the case, can anyone point me to a military-friendly gun store in the Monterey Bay area?
You will have worse luck at Markleys, they are far less educated from my own experiences with these shops.
Del Valle gunsmithing in Marina might be a good choice. I believe he is an LEO.
Get a hold of the owner or manager at SHS. I actually am going there today for a pickup.
He told me personally he will do absolutely anything that is legal, no matter how "scary or fringe" it may seem to other dealers. SSEs, OLLs, whatever. He assured me he would do it.
Bring the website or book or whatever with the laws written to his attention.
Oh yeah, thank you for your service.
Also, while you are here, eat at compagnos deli. 2000 prescott avenue in Pacific Grove/Monterey. Right below the Taylor gate of DLI. If you do, tell Bennet Compagno, the owner, Travis says hi.
Are you at DLI, NPS or what?
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Last edited by omnitravis; 02-13-2013 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0150r View Post
If they sell a firearm to you, who is breaking the law? You, them, or both?

I was going to get a Glock 26 in my home state from a major firearm retailer and they said they wouldn't have any issue selling one to me. When I asked them about the PCS orders out of state, they called the "government handgun hotline" which said I was good to go as I had a valid state ID and have my official residency there for taxes/voting. I ended up not getting it, but only because it was $200 cheaper at ProForce in Brea. Since I didn't get it in my home state, I can't say for certain that the paperwork would have gone through.
The paperwork would have gone through.

You still would have been committing a federal felony according to the BATFE.

Your chances of getting caught are probably less than the chances of being hit by lightning, but it could still land you in jail if you happen to be unlucky enough to get caught.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ham View Post
longgun: mil ID & orders to CA

handgun: mil ID, Orders, & lease agreement

also never hurts to ask if the gun store does mil discount.
There are people in the Military who actually live in Base Housing. They don't have any lease agreement. They may not even have any utility bills unless they have a landline telephone. More and more people are going to cell phone only.

How would they purchase a handgun?
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Old 02-13-2013, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
The paperwork would have gone through.

You still would have been committing a federal felony according to the BATFE.

Your chances of getting caught are probably less than the chances of being hit by lightning, but it could still land you in jail if you happen to be unlucky enough to get caught.
I still would love to hear an actual clarification on this from BATFE. I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Any FFL's I've talked to in my state of residence insist it's legal so long as you still hold your state of residence license with your in state address. I've read all the residence info and rulings from BATFE and it just leaves it completely ambiguous. Some info makes it sound like its ok and some info makes its sound like it isn't.
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Old 02-13-2013, 7:39 PM
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The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]
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Old 02-13-2013, 7:46 PM
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What is not specified is what is definition of neighboring state? Must it border the Pcs state? Really if you have a driver's license in your home of record how would anyone know you we're under PCS orders in another state, or even in the military.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:47 PM
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Really if you have a driver's license in your home of record how would anyone know you we're under PCS orders in another state, or even in the military.

They wouldn't.
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Old 02-14-2013, 5:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
There are people in the Military who actually live in Base Housing. They don't have any lease agreement. They may not even have any utility bills unless they have a landline telephone. More and more people are going to cell phone only.

How would they purchase a handgun?
Well I know the family housing run in NRSW is done by a third party KTR, not the base, so people can have repair bills. I would say pretty much everyone has some sort of bill they can get from the bank, either credit card or car note. I've used that before. Actually, I used a CHP "fix-it" ticket as well.

Now if you have a troop that lives in the barracks, doesn't have a credit card or any paper bills on file, that may pose a problem. But then again, troops in barracks would have to put the weapon in the unit armory...
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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Well I know the family housing run in NRSW is done by a third party KTR, not the base, so people can have repair bills. I would say pretty much everyone has some sort of bill they can get from the bank, either credit card or car note. I've used that before. Actually, I used a CHP "fix-it" ticket as well.

Now if you have a troop that lives in the barracks, doesn't have a credit card or any paper bills on file, that may pose a problem. But then again, troops in barracks would have to put the weapon in the unit armory...
Having to store the weapon in the armory does not have any bearing on the purchase process. I have owned guns while living in the barracks. The state I purchased the weapons in only required my ID and a copy of my PCS orders.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd2968 View Post
What is not specified is what is definition of neighboring state? Must it border the Pcs state? Really if you have a driver's license in your home of record how would anyone know you we're under PCS orders in another state, or even in the military.
It is indeed clearly defined. If you maintain a home in one state, and commute to work at a Military Installation in another state, then it is considered legal to purchase a firearm in either state. For example, it is only 23 miles from the New Hampshire state line to Hanscom AFB in Massachusetts. Many military people commute from New Hampshire. They can purchase a gun legally in either New Hampshire, or Massachusetts.
You would be hard pressed to convince anyone that you commute daily from Las Vegas, NV to Hanscom AFB, MA. You had better be able to prove you have your own private jet.

As far as anyone knowing, it would be you knowing that you commited a felony, a felony you most likely could get away with, but a felony none the less.
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Old 02-17-2013, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
There are people in the Military who actually live in Base Housing. They don't have any lease agreement. They may not even have any utility bills unless they have a landline telephone. More and more people are going to cell phone only.

How would they purchase a handgun?
We do indeed have lease agreements! in my case on camp pendleton i signed my lease agreement with lincoln military housing, and that is how i bought my sig a couple months ago...
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